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By Julian658
#15176259
late wrote:If you are trying to look like a complete idiot, you are there.

While math is a type of language, it's not spoken. You need to talk about it, which brings us back to communicating effectively with your students.

CRT happened at the same time educators were talking about communication. Not just here, but adapting your pedagogy to work with the differing learning styles kids and adults have.


If CRT proposed a different educational approach without constantly saying that white people are the reason why BIPOC do not know math I would be all for it. However, most of what CRT wants to do is demonize white math teachers and promote the concept that math is a symbol of white supremacy.
CRT also wants to promote the idea that math can be used to destroy capitalism. WTF!!! The agenda is clear and has nothing to do with education. This is all about political indoctrination. That you cannot see this is astounding.

Here is a quote from page 1 of the CRT math manifesto:

While primarily for math educators,
this text advocates for a
collective approach to dismantling
white supremacy.


This is clearly not about math education late. :knife: :knife:
User avatar
By Gardener
#15176517
Pants-of-dog wrote:
I see. You think their use of stories is a “reliance on anecdotes”. This is incorrect and seems more like an effort on your part to cast aspersions. This is an overly simplistic look at the way they also incorporate anecdotal information. CRAt advocates do this because of methodological limitations on studying lived experiences of racism through a traditional scientific lens.

And then you go further and assume this imaginary “reliance on anecdotes” means that they think their personal experience must be the absolute best way to do things. This is a ridiculous assumption.

——————————

On the contrary; narrative and storytelling are key parts of CRT. How could it be otherwise ? Rational Science is a racist white tool, as are mathematics, statistics, cars, houses, rocks and oxygen. CRT cannot exist in an environment defined by the scientific method and rationality.

Do you mean that it is an unsupported hypothesis? The difference n
between a hypothesis and a theory is that a theory is supported by evidence, while a hypothesis is logically possible but still untested.

So if you are calling it a theory, you are saying it has been empirically tested and the evidence supports the claim that the theory is true.


That is very interesting. I wasn't really aware of that difference; thank you for pointing it out.
On that basis, I think that CRT should be more accurately known as CRH (critical race hypothesis), as absolutely none of it, including specifically its core belief, has any objective evidence supporting it.

Actually, it starts with the supported and factual claim that racism is a significant part of the history of the USA, and that this historical racism has caused racism to continue into the present day in many ways.

No. That claim is neither supported or factual. Racism is most certainly NOT a 'significant part of the history of the USA'. AT least, not a 'significant part' that is distinguished from every country on the Planet, including black-majority and black-controlled countries.
Racism is a common factor of all human societies. What distinguishes countries is their response to it. The USA is almost certainly the most egalitarian, and LEAST racist, of all multiracial nations on the planet.

No. Similar to @wat0n’s incorrect assumption that anecdotes are essential, you are assuming that anecdotes are the only important evidence.

This makes no sense. Instead, what CRT scholars seem to do is use anecdotes and narratives as additional information that clarifies or inspires knowledge gleaned in more traditional manners.

I disagree. Can you give me any part of the core CRH theology that is based on 'traditional manners' ?
The raison de'tre of CRH lies in statistics on the average earnings, education, and status etc of black people in the USA. It assumes these differences from White people must be down to racism. However, here is the thing. That is an article of faith. It has ZERO proof whatsoever.
By Pants-of-dog
#15176528
Gardener wrote:On the contrary; narrative and storytelling are key parts of CRT. How could it be otherwise ? Rational Science is a racist white tool, as are mathematics, statistics, cars, houses, rocks and oxygen. CRT cannot exist in an environment defined by the scientific method and rationality.


No, this is an incorrect caricature that I have already addressed in this thread several times.

That is very interesting. I wasn't really aware of that difference; thank you for pointing it out.
On that basis, I think that CRT should be more accurately known as CRH (critical race hypothesis), as absolutely none of it, including specifically its core belief, has any objective evidence supporting it.


Please show that there is no evidence supporting CRT at all.

No. That claim is neither supported or factual. Racism is most certainly NOT a 'significant part of the history of the USA'. AT least, not a 'significant part' that is distinguished from every country on the Planet, including black-majority and black-controlled countries.
Racism is a common factor of all human societies. What distinguishes countries is their response to it. The USA is almost certainly the most egalitarian, and LEAST racist, of all multiracial nations on the planet.


Please provide evidence for this claim.

I disagree. Can you give me any part of the core CRH theology that is based on 'traditional manners' ?
The raison de'tre of CRH lies in statistics on the average earnings, education, and status etc of black people in the USA. It assumes these differences from White people must be down to racism. However, here is the thing. That is an article of faith. It has ZERO proof whatsoever.


Please show that there is zero evidence for racism today in the USA.
By wat0n
#15176529
Pants-of-dog wrote:No, this is an incorrect caricature that I have already addressed in this thread several times.


It's CRT proponents themselves who defend standpoint epistemology and, even worse, who apply it hypocritically like you've done here.
By Pants-of-dog
#15176530
@wat0n
@Gardener

If you two can provide a source that shows a real world example of what you are talking about, that would strengthen tour argument immensely.

This should be easy to do since you guys claim CRT scholars do it all the time.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15176531
Pants-of-dog wrote:No, this is an incorrect caricature that I have already addressed in this thread several times.

Please show that there is no evidence supporting CRT at all.

Please provide evidence for this claim.

Please show that there is zero evidence for racism today in the USA.


POD, the National Basketball Association in America is 90% black. Does that mean that white players are discriminated?

I ask the question because the CRT types rely on data like the above to state that there is systemic racism. Obviously there is no racism with regards to who gets to be a basketball player in the NBA.

The problem with CRT is that it uses end results as evidence of racism.

CTR is also flawed in that it preaches a single variable (racism) as the only cause for inequality. Obviously inequality is due to multiple factors.

You are a marxist and you know quite well that the many CRT leaders are marxists like you and they use the race as a vehicle to promote socialism and the destruction of the West.

Sadly many ignorant innocent bystanders that support BLM and CRT are not aware of the marxist angle. They say to themselves that it is justified to say black lives matter or that kids need a new CRT method to learn in school. They have no clue (due to ignorance or lack of intelligence) that CRT and BLM are marxists organizations.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15176532
Pants-of-dog wrote:@wat0n
@Gardener

If you two can provide a source that shows a real world example of what you are talking about, that would strengthen tour argument immensely.

This should be easy to do since you guys claim CRT scholars do it all the time.


For the love of God. Did you read Dismantling Racism in Mathematics Instruction. You provided the reference and it seems you did not read it.
https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/up ... TRIDE1.pdf
By wat0n
#15176535
Pants-of-dog wrote:@wat0n
@Gardener

If you two can provide a source that shows a real world example of what you are talking about, that would strengthen tour argument immensely.

This should be easy to do since you guys claim CRT scholars do it all the time.


We have one in this very thread, proven by your inability to address the examples of Mr Hershman and Ms Yumga. I can't think of any better example ;)
By Pants-of-dog
#15176536
wat0n wrote:We have one in this very thread, proven by your inability to address the examples of Mr Hershman and Ms Yumga. I can't think of any better example ;)


Okay.

Please show how that example proves the claim. Thanks.

And if you claim to have done so already, please provide a link to where you did.

Thank you.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15176538
late wrote:He wanted something that actually supported your crazy...

That is not an argument late.

This is the opening statement in the CRT math education manifesto, page 1

This tool provides teachers an opportunity to examine their actions, beliefs, and values around teaching math- ematics. The framework for deconstructing racism in mathematics offers essential characteristics of antiracist math educators and critical approaches to dismantling white supremacy in math classrooms by making visible the toxic characteristics of white supremacy culture.

While primarily for math educa- tors, this text advocates for a collective approach to dismantling white supremacy.


In page 5 they offer their critique of so-called white culture. This is no different than the racist poster published in the African American myseum in Washington DC. Fighting racism with more racism is a dead end and a recipe for tribalism, balkanization, and civil war.

As a visual indicator, we italicize the terms used to identify white supremacy characteristics. They are as follows:
• Perfectionism
• Sense of Urgency
• Defensiveness
• Quantity Over Quality
• Worship of the Written Word • Paternalism
• Either/Or Thinking
• Power Hoarding
• Fear of Open Conflict
• Individualism
• Only One Right Way
• Progress is Bigger, More
• Objectivity
• Right to Comfort


Additional critique of white culture on page 7:

• There is a greater focus on getting the "right" answer than understanding concepts and reasoning.

• Curriculum developers and teachers enculturated in the USA teach mathematics the way they learned it .

• Rigor is expressed only in difficulty.

• Students are required to “show their work” .


In page 9 they state:

• Use culturally relevant, antiracist pedagogy, practices, and curriculum.
• Cultivate mathematical identity so that everyone can see themselves as mathematicians.
• Design homework policies that are responsive to the lives of students of color in order to support their learning needs.
• Recognize and name the mathematical strengths of students of color, and teach them to recognize these strengths in themselves and others.
• Intentionally integrate physical movement in math classes.


These CRT people unknowingly assume POC people are inferior with regards on how to learn math. They assume it is all about white culture. They think that math should be teach within a framework that is outside white culture. Meanwhile the top math students in the USA are East Asian kids with NO WESTERN CULTURE BACKGROUND.

CRT is a bit like Covid 19. The Dems needed Covid 19 to win the elections in 2020. The Republicans need CRT to win again in 2024.

CRT is a load of BS late.
By Pants-of-dog
#15176539
@Julian658

Thank you for providing evidence that CRT can be taught in classes where science and rationality are important, like math classes.

This then contradicts the claims that “Rational Science is a racist white tool, as are mathematics, statistics, cars, houses, rocks and oxygen” and that “CRT cannot exist in an environment defined by the scientific method and rationality”.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15176540
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Julian658

Thank you for providing evidence that CRT can be taught in classes where science and rationality are important, like math classes.


POD, many BIPOC are incredibly bad and awful in math. I am in favor of establishing a math curriculum that tries to improve the math knowledge of BIPOC. However, telling BIPOC they do not know math because the math is taught with an European bent is total bullshit. Math has no nationality or ethnicity.
By late
#15176543
Julian658 wrote:
That is not an argument late.



You are babbling again.
By late
#15176544
Julian658 wrote:
However, telling BIPOC they do not know math because the math is taught with an European bent is total bullshit.



You are simply repeating brain dead lies on a topic of which you know next to nothing.
By wat0n
#15176546
Pants-of-dog wrote:Okay.

Please show how that example proves the claim. Thanks.

And if you claim to have done so already, please provide a link to where you did.

Thank you.


As I've explained before, it's all about cherry picking which voices to hear, basically those that agree with the other claims by CRT proponents.

It's how postmodern trash works.
By Pants-of-dog
#15176547
@wat0n

Yes, you have informed us of your personal opinion.

Please provide a link to where you supposedly supported @Gardener’s argument. Thank you.
By wat0n
#15176550
Pants-of-dog wrote:@wat0n

Yes, you have informed us of your personal opinion.

Please provide a link to where you supposedly supported @Gardener’s argument. Thank you.


Read the thread.

Do you want me to point yourself to others who criticize standpoint epistemology? I already did that too, I can do so again. I can mention other issues with it, particularly the fact that it goes against the non-essentialism CRT proponents claim to advocate for.

It would actually be more productive if you could muster a counterargument better than simply saying no one understands your nonsense, without even explaining why. And no, saying that "Black people understand racism better" is not an argument to justify not listening to other Black people who deny CRT.
By Pants-of-dog
#15176551
@wat0n

Please provide a link to where you supported @Gardener’s argument. Thank you.

Also, please tell me what his argument is since you have not shown that you know what it is. Thank you.
By wat0n
#15176553
@Pants-of-dog

How about you provide a cogent explanation for only listening to some Black voices and not others instead of stonewalling?
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