The Wuhan virus—how are we doing? - Page 105 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
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#15176431
SpecialOlympian wrote:If we collectively believe hard enough, America's failure to respond to Covid can successfully be blamed on the Chinese and Trump won't be a one term loser.
This is the only reason people want to lay the blame on China. It means they can blame someone else for their complete failure as a nation, with dealing with a pandemic, when they had the best resources to combat it.


Even were China were to be 100% transparent, what would it gain them? Americans have been told China's the Bogey-Man, and won't believe the truth, unless it's against China. China not being forthcoming with transparency should be expected.

Now, say China IS to blame. What would America do? China could claim it was one lax lab, and that the problem has been rectified. So what would America gain except to give China a black eye in the media? China isn't going to suffer repercussions from this, regardless of "blame".

You still can't blame China for the US leadership failing utterly to protect its citizens.
#15176468
Given that NO country is 100% transparent, I find your statement to be a bit unrealistic, @Rugoz. USA is trying to plant blame for their mishandling of the pandemic(600,000+ dead) on China. That's the bottom line.
#15176483
Godstud wrote:This is the only reason people want to lay the blame on China. It means they can blame someone else for their complete failure as a nation, with dealing with a pandemic, when they had the best resources to combat it.


I think there's a few insane China hawks in the mix who want a war but lol these are the kind of morons who think John Cena betrayed them because he wants his acting brand to penetrate the Chinese movie markets.
#15176515
Godstud wrote:Given that NO country is 100% transparent, I find your statement to be a bit unrealistic,


Last time I checked we still don't know the origin of the virus but China refuses any additional investigation. That's not even close to 100% transparent.

Godstud wrote:USA is trying to plant blame for their mishandling of the pandemic(600,000+ dead) on China. That's the bottom line.


What motivates certain actors in the US is frankly irrelevant. CCP propaganda on this in no better than American right-wing news so they can hardly complain.
#15176520
Rugoz wrote:Last time I checked we still don't know the origin of the virus but China refuses any additional investigation. That's not even close to 100% transparent.
As I said before, why should they? The assumption will be that they did something wrong, regardless of facts. The narrative is that China is the Ultimate Evil, and Western media has pushed this propaganda until even Asian Americans are attacked, or blamed for a disease.

Of course, I am positive that CCP propaganda is just as bad as American propaganda. I've spoken to many Chinese people who either doubt their government completely, or tell me that the Chinese invented everything of worth(sound familiar?). :lol:

That said, there's little that can be done regardless of who is to blame.

If it was a lab that had an accident, then what would happen, especially if China assured people that it wouldn't happen again?

I'll tell you what would happen. They wouldn't believe it. It wouldn't fit into the narrative that they've created. That narrative is that China released the disease on its own population, as some maniacal population control method, or that China did it as an attack on USA. Take your pick.

If anyone is to blame for 600,000+ dead Americans, it's the horrendous leadership that the USA had. A leadership that took every opportunity to put doubt in its medical professionals, and undermine attempts to deal with the pandemic. That has nothing to do with China.

Other countries had far less deaths, and didn't have the "top-notch" American medical system, wealth, and infrastructure.

Cooperation, with foreign "investigations" would be pointless, and a waste of time.
#15176521
Godstud wrote:As I said before, why should they? The assumption will be that they did something wrong, regardless of facts. The narrative is that China is the Ultimate Evil, and Western media has pushed this propaganda until even Asian Americans are attacked, or blamed for a disease.


This is nonsense. The newspapers I read daily have never depicted China as the Ultimate Evil, nor did they blame China for the disease.

Godstud wrote:Of course, I am positive that CCP propaganda is just as bad as American propaganda. I've spoken to many Chinese people who either doubt their government completely, or tell me that the Chinese invented everything of worth(sound familiar?).


I didn't say as bad as American propaganda, I said as bad as American right-wing news (or propaganda).

Godstud wrote:If it was a lab that had an accident, then what would happen, especially if China assured people that it wouldn't happen again?


Depending on how the accident happened, maybe the entire "gain of function" research must be questioned. How can we tell without knowing the details?

Godstud wrote:'ll tell you what would happen. They wouldn't believe it.


Who the fuck is "they"?

Godstud wrote:Cooperation, with foreign "investigations" would be pointless, and a waste of time.


That's just plain stupid. Such investigations have been conducted with all past diseases.
#15176681
From an epidemiological standpoint there is little to be gained from determining whether it came from a lab or a natural source. Or both actually.

Clearly the right is looking for a scapegoat because their failure to respond (and in many states to respond now) has had and continues to have an obscene death toll.

We have, right from the start, had a very good idea how to stop this bug from killing so many people. The Trump administration failed to act. They did a few things and then when the economic costs began to mount they wimped out. Trump clearly decided to politicize this pandemic making the affirmative decision to downplay the danger and allow people to die. His republican colleagues decided to join him. That is not even subject to argument. We all watched them do it and they continue to do it.

But when the right wing takes over for 30 years, starting in 2024, this history will be rewritten never to see the light of day again.
#15176714
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Pants-of-dog wrote:@Doug64

No.

We have the actual genome which shows a clear development from the other naturally occurring ones and displays no chimeric properties like engineered genomes do.

The genetic structure of SARS‐CoV‐2 does not rule out a laboratory origin
INTRODUCTION

Nearly a year has passed since the outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome‐coronavirus 2 (SARS‐CoV‐2) in Wuhan, China, and its origin is still controversial. Despite the international research effort conducted, a natural host, either direct or intermediate, has not yet been identified. The hypothesis that the Wuhan Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market was the first source for animal–human virus transmission has now been conclusively dismissedi and the few market samples that were collected showed only human‐adapted SARS‐CoV‐2, with no traces of zoonotic predecessor strainsii. Almost all scientific papers published to date purport that SARS‐CoV‐2 has a natural origin, and the only published paper considering possible a lab origin[ 1 ] focuses on serial passage as the technique that could justify SARS‐CoV‐2 special adaptation to human cells. We here describe how the two main SARS‐CoV‐2 features, (1) the presence of a furin cleavage site missing in other CoVs of the same group and (2) an receptor binding domain (RBD) optimized to bind to human cells[ 2 ] might be the result of lab manipulation techniques such as site‐directed mutagenesis. The acquisition of both unique features by SARS‐CoV‐2 more or less simultaneously is less likely to be natural or caused only by cell/animal serial passage.


CONCLUSIONS AND OUTLOOK

On the basis of our analysis, an artificial origin of SARS‐CoV‐2 is not a baseless conspiracy theory that is to be condemned[ 66 ] and researchers have the responsibility to consider all possible causes for SARS‐CoV‐2 emergence. The insertion of human‐adapted pangolin CoV RBD obtained by cell/animal serial passage and furin cleavage site could arise from site‐directed mutagenesis experiments, in a context of evolutionary studies or development of pan‐CoV vaccines or drugs. A recent article in Nature[ 67 ] affirms that a laboratory origin for SARS‐CoV‐2 cannot be ruled out, as researchers could have been infected accidentally, and that gain‐of‐function experiments resulting in SARS‐CoV‐2 could have been performed at WIV. Genetic manipulation of SARS‐CoV‐2 may have been carried out in any laboratory in the world with access to the backbone sequence and the necessary equipment and it would not leave any trace. Modern technologies based on synthetic genetics platforms allow the reconstruction of viruses based on their genomic sequence, without the need of a natural isolate.[ 68 ]

A thorough investigation on strain collections and research records in all laboratories involved in CoV research before SARS‐CoV‐2 outbreak is urgently needed. Special attention should be paid to strains of CoVs that were generated in virology laboratories but have not yet been published, as those possibly described in the deleted WIV database. Because finding a possible natural host could take years, as with the first SARS,[ 67 ] or never succeed, equal priority should be given to investigating natural and laboratory origins of SARS‐CoV‐2.

Xiao Qiang, a research scientist at Berkeley, recently stated: “To understand exactly how this virus has originated is critical knowledge for preventing this from happening in the future.” [xxi]

Reports like this are likely the reason that so-called experts are suddenly unwilling to dismiss the lab leak theory out of hand as they have before.

And the latest weekly numbers. The school opening numbers haven't shifted again, and at this point I suspect they aren't going to, much, before the next school year.

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#15176734


Bats in the lab....

The only reason people are choosing not to blame China is because they view Donald Trump as a Bond Villain who controls everything and caused everything. Oh and "Blaming China = Racist"(even though it totally isn't... My Mum, our extended family and all her friends all blame the CCP, and they're all Chinese, Cantonese Chinese).

We call them CCP bootlickers for a reason.
Last edited by colliric on 13 Jun 2021 12:01, edited 1 time in total.
#15176737
Talk to any Cantonese person about which country created this crisis. I challenge Godstud to talk to at least 10 Cantonese people and ask them which country caused this crisis.

60 Minutes(Aussie version):
#15176739
@Istanbuller, no, you are making up complete bullshit, as usual. What people said was that calling it the China flu stigmatized anyone of Asian descent. This has been proven correct since many Asian Americans have suffered discrimination and violence because of that shit-eater Trump and his moronic followers.

Trump is a racist. That's not in doubt, and getting his picture taken with black people isn't evidence of anything, except him trying to present himself as something he's not.
AN ORAL HISTORY OF TRUMP’S BIGOTRY
I. “You Don’t Want to Live With Them Either”
The Justice Department’s 1973 lawsuit against Trump Management Company focused on 39 properties in New York City. The government alleged that employees were directed to tell African American lease applicants that there were no open apartments. Company policy, according to an employee quoted in court documents, was to rent only to “Jews and executives.”

The Justice Department frequently used consent decrees to settle discrimination cases, offering redress to plaintiffs while allowing defendants to avoid an admission of guilt. The rationale: Consent decrees achieved speedier results with less public rancor.

Nathaniel Jones was the general counsel for the NAACP. He later became a federal judge. John Yinger, an economist specializing in residential discrimination, served at the time as an expert witness in a number of fair-housing cases. Elyse Goldweber, a Justice Department lawyer, brought the first federal suit against Trump Management.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ts/588067/

@colliric :lol: China didn't create the disease in a lab to release on its people and the world. Nature did. Asking the opinion of people in the street isn't a valid argument, either. :knife:
#15176741
Godstud wrote:@colliric :lol: China didn't create the disease in a lab to release on its people and the world. Nature did. Asking the opinion of people in the street isn't a valid argument unless you're a complete idiot.


60 Minutes is right, the lab theory has good interesting evidence.

60 Minutes exists in the USA market too and the local version of the program has the same solid reputation for good solid investigative reporting.
#15176744
Those "American right-wing dimwits" shaped the modern world you are living in now.

Liberty, capitalism, freedom of expression, individualism, religious freedom, democracy, fair and free elections, personal responsibility and many other concepts created the free world originated from philsophy, intellectual writings and sciencefic works of "American right-wing dimwits". :roll:
#15176746
People call the republicans racist because it is the published, demonstrated, and official position of the Republican Party. China has nothing to do with it. And this China shit continues to be the dodge some people use to not take responsibility for their deliberated killing of hundreds of thousands of people.
#15176749
Istanbuller wrote:Those "American right-wing dimwits" shaped the modern world you are living in now.

Liberty, capitalism, freedom of expression, individualism, religious freedom, democracy, fair and free elections, personal responsibility and many other concepts created the free world originated from philsophy, intellectual writings and sciencefic works of "American right-wing dimwits". :roll:


Still waiting for the day you say something half-way intelligent. Go suck at Erdowahn's tits.
#15176760
Drlee wrote:People call the republicans racist because it is the published, demonstrated, and official position of the Republican Party. China has nothing to do with it. And this China shit continues to be the dodge some people use to not take responsibility for their deliberated killing of hundreds of thousands of people.


That does not excuse Democrat tunnel vision concerning refusing to see the obvious fact that the Communist Party did in fact cause the pandemic at the beginning and are in fact the political party most responsible for the pandemic.

People call the Democrats "Communist bootlickers" because it is the published, demonstrated, and official position of the Democratic Party.

Neither side taking responsibility.
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