CRT - Page 23 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in the USA and Canada.

Moderator: PoFo North America Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15176867
Pants-of-dog wrote:The first claim this woman makes is that children will be separated by their skin colour.

Please provide evidence for this claim. Thank you.

Not physically separated POD. Don't naively be a literalist. The white kids are privileged and the POC kids oppressed. Do you disagree?
By Pants-of-dog
#15176870
Julian658 wrote:Not physically separated POD. Don't naively be a literalist.


I see. So what exactly did this woman mean?
User avatar
By Julian658
#15176873
Pants-of-dog wrote:I see. So what exactly did this woman mean?

She specifically said she does not want her children to be labeled as the oppressed group. Watch at about 22-23 secs.

At 54 secs she further states that CRT assumes whites are the oppressors.

Do you think whites oppressed BIPOC?
User avatar
By Unthinking Majority
#15176876
Pants-of-dog wrote:Her emotional state is irrelevant. Her motives are irrelevant. The fact is that this is only censorship if you define curriculum changes as censorship, in which case, all teachers are constantly censoring books.

If your children were in a public high school school would you think it's perfectly fine for a teacher or dept. to remove any books with positive references to Marx or any author teaching any kind of social justice/civil rights/feminist or leftwing type perspective?

Would you be ok if a class that every year had the children read the book "Roots" (on the plight of black slaves) or Uncle Tom's Cabin had a conservative teacher/dept tweet that they "proudly" removed that book from the curricula? And replaced it with Atlas Shrugged or The Protocols of the Elders of Zion?

Is it censorship? Technically I don't know, nor is that relevant, I'm not arguing definitions. Is it politically motivated manipulation of student education and indoctrination by the state and inappropriate? Yes.

All curricula are political. There is no purely objective and purely balanced way of teaching. A lot of it is unconscious or implicit, instead of overt political teachings, but it is still always there.

Even the more objective things, like hard sciences and math, will have politics in their teaching even if they do not have any in the subject matter itself.


Yes some if not many curricula have implicit political activism in them, and they shouldn't. It's state propaganda. The government isn't paid by taxpayers to brainwash their children with the chosen politics or morals of the state. You see it in southern rightwing states, you see it in more liberal jurisdictions.

Sometimes it's not possible to be 100% objective, but the goal should be to reduce that subjectivity as much as possible. Teachers are paid to teach, not indoctrinate.
By Pants-of-dog
#15176877
Julian658 wrote:She specifically said she does not want her children to be labeled as the oppressed group. Watch at about 22-23 secs.


So what is the claim?

If her claim is just about her feelings, who cares?

At 54 secs she further states that CRT assumes whites are the oppressors.


Is she correct?
By Pants-of-dog
#15176878
Unthinking Majority wrote:If your children were in a public high school school would you think it's perfectly fine for a teacher or dept. to remove any books with positive references to Marx or any author teaching any kind of social justice/civil rights/feminist or leftwing type perspective?


This is literally what is being done right now in states where CRT is banned.

Since I do not supprt the current censorship, you already know my answer.

Would you be ok if a class that every year had the children read the book "Roots" (on the plight of black slaves) or Uncle Tom's Cabin had a conservative teacher/dept tweet that they "proudly" removed that book from the curricula? And replaced it with Atlas Shrugged or The Protocols of the Elders of Zion?


Again, teachers are allowed to choose which books are on a curriculum. This is not censorship. If some teachers decided to change curricula like this, it would simply be another day in North America, since this is quite common.

Is it censorship? Technically I don't know, nor is that relevant, I'm not arguing definitions. Is it politically motivated manipulation of student education and indoctrination by the state and inappropriate? Yes.


No, it is not censorship.

Yes, that is relevant, since you are trying to argue that both sides are trying to indoctrinate kids, and this is not true.

No, it is not indoctrination by the state since it is only one teacher who has no state power, while it is legislators, governors and AGs who are using state power to shut down any dissent about race in schools.

Yes some if not many curricula have implicit political activism in them, and they shouldn't. It's state propaganda. The government isn't paid by taxpayers to brainwash their children with the chosen politics or morals of the state. You see it in southern rightwing states, you see it in more liberal jurisdictions.

Sometimes it's not possible to be 100% objective, but the goal should be to reduce that subjectivity as much as possible. Teachers are paid to teach, not indoctrinate.


Then you must want to get rid of schools entirely if you wish to have no indoctrination.
By late
#15176879
Julian658 wrote:

Let's assume for a moment that before CRT schools were indoctrinating children with pro USA propaganda.



I went to school in the 1960s, you don't need to assume... This is still a problem, btw, there is always a tug of war between the academic world and school boards. Book companies want to make one book, not 50. So a state like Texas that is quite willing to walk away from the table has a lot of pull in saying what's in the nation's history books. And they use it.

You keep trying to call CRT propaganda. Which is one of the lies you keep repeating.

This is just the latest lie in an old war to keep our real history hidden, and in the new war to bring back White Supremacy.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15176881
Pants-of-dog wrote:So what is the claim?

If her claim is just about her feelings, who cares?


POD, many POC parents don't want their kids to be labeled as victims in school. Many non POC parents don't want their kids to be labeled as the oppressors. Do you agree that this causes division, resentment, tribalism, hate, and balkanization? This is much more than just feelings.

And you have the temerity to say this is just about her feelings???? :knife: :knife: :knife: This is coming from your side of the political spectrum? You guys scream micro aggression if some asks "where you are from". POD, you can do better than this. Try again! It seems you and late are in a competitions as to how avoid the issue.

Image
User avatar
By Julian658
#15176882
late wrote:I went to school in the 1960s, you don't need to assume... This is still a problem, btw, there is always a tug of war between the academic world and school boards. Book companies want to make one book, not 50. So a state like Texas that is quite willing to walk away from the table has a lot of pull in saying what's in the nation's history books. And they use it.

You keep trying to call CRT propaganda. Which is one of the lies you keep repeating.

This is just the latest lie in an old war to keep our real history hidden, and in the new war to bring back White Supremacy.


The history of black oppression is the most well known history in America. We hear it about it 24/7 seven days a week. Reliving the same horrific topic on a perennial basis leads to victimhood and healing will never be achieved.
By late
#15176883
Julian658 wrote:
The history of black oppression is the most well known history in America.

Reliving the same horrific topic on a perennial basis leads to victimhood and healing will never be achieved.



Not in high school history class.

They've been victims for centuries, and that is so painfully obvious one wonders what sort of instrument was used to scramble your brains.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15176885
late wrote:Not in high school history class.

They've been victims for centuries, and that is so painfully obvious one wonders what sort of instrument was used to scramble your brains.


I came to America in my early 20s and I am well aware of the history of mistreatment of AAs in the USA. I fully understand the PTSD and the anxiety when there is police car in the rear view mirror. It is not easy to face adversity and to have that nagging doubt that maybe a bad outcome was racism. I have experienced name discrimination when putting in an application. This was not uncommon in the 1970s. I went as far as to change the surname of my son into an anglo surname.

However, I have also seen a lot of progress. My wife and I cried with Ophra when Obama won in 2008. If you had asked a black person in 2006 if America would ever have a black president the answer would have been a resounding NO.

I live in a very multicultural affluent county and we have ZERO issues. Today it is way better than in the 70s, I can see it. Meanwhile the black leaders have changed how to deal with racism. They now see racism in the abstract and in the air we breath or the water we drink. This will not end well.
By Pants-of-dog
#15176887
Julian658 wrote:POD, many POC parents don't want their kids to be labeled as victims in school. Many non POC parents don't want their kids to be labeled as the oppressors.


Then show that this is actually happening.
By late
#15176888
Julian658 wrote:
I live in a very multicultural affluent county and we have ZERO issues.



We've got issues coming out the ying yang.
User avatar
By Gardener
#15176889
Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes.

There are many things that affect how much or little oppression you receive from the state in the USA.

One of them is race. Do you need evidence for this claim?

Aha.. now you get to the crux of it. That is the core of Critical Race Hypothesis, and also Intersectionality.

Give me evidence that black people are 'oppressed' by the state ? (more than white people). I don't think you CAN.
User avatar
By Gardener
#15176890
Julian658 wrote:The history of black oppression is the most well known history in America. We hear it about it 24/7 seven days a week. Reliving the same horrific topic on a perennial basis leads to victimhood and healing will never be achieved.

Any such 'history' should reflect the fact that ALL societies indulged in Black Oppression at the time, but America (along with England and much of Europe) led the fight against it !
User avatar
By Julian658
#15176895
Gardener wrote:Any such 'history' should reflect the fact that ALL societies indulged in Black Oppression at the time, but America (along with England and much of Europe) led the fight against it !

I do not disagree. But, fighting a visible enemy is way easier than fighting an abstract enemy.
User avatar
By MadMonk
#15176896
Gardener wrote:Any such 'history' should reflect the fact that ALL societies indulged in Black Oppression at the time, but America (along with England and much of Europe) led the fight against it !


I'm sorry, what now?

European Empires back in the day 'led the fight' of whatever gave them as much power as possible in order to defeat each other for supremacy. Granted that was pretty much what everyone did, Europeans just became the greatest killing machines since the Mongol Empire.

Check out King Leopold II and the Congo Free State. Fighting hard for Black Liberation! :lol:
By Pants-of-dog
#15176897
Gardener wrote:Aha.. now you get to the crux of it. That is the core of Critical Race Hypothesis, and also Intersectionality.

Give me evidence that black people are 'oppressed' by the state ? (more than white people). I don't think you CAN.


https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/1 ... 018.304559

    Objectives. To estimate the risk of mortality from police homicide by race/ethnicity and place in the United States.

    Methods. We used novel data on police-involved fatalities and Bayesian models to estimate mortality risk for Black, Latino, and White men for all US counties by Census division and metropolitan area type.

    Results. Police kill, on average, 2.8 men per day. Police were responsible for about 8% of all homicides with adult male victims between 2012 and 2018. Black men’s mortality risk is between 1.9 and 2.4 deaths per 100 000 per year, Latino risk is between 0.8 and 1.2, and White risk is between 0.6 and 0.7.

    Conclusions. Police homicide risk is higher than suggested by official data. Black and Latino men are at higher risk for death than are White men, and these disparities vary markedly across place.

    Public Health Implications. Homicide reduction efforts should consider interventions to reduce the use of lethal force by police. Efforts to address unequal police violence should target places with high mortality risk.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/artic ... ne.0229686

    On average, there were large racial/ethnic inequities in the rates at which White and Black people were killed during police contact. Across all MSAs, Black people were 3.23 times more likely to be killed compared to White people (95% CI: 2.95, 3.54, p<0.001). Latinx people were 1.05 times more likely, though this IRR was not statically significant (95% CI: 0.94, 1.17, p = 0.40).

There are also voted ID laws, stop and frisk policies, disparities in sentencing for equal crimes, drug use convictions, and other examples.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15176903
MadMonk wrote:I'm sorry, what now?

European Empires back in the day 'led the fight' of whatever gave them as much power as possible in order to defeat each other for supremacy. Granted that was pretty much what everyone did, Europeans just became the greatest killing machines since the Mongol Empire.

Check out King Leopold II and the Congo Free State. Fighting hard for Black Liberation! :lol:

Most groups were violent against other groups in world history. Japanese conquered the Koreans even though they are sort of similar. Imagine what it would be like if they were totally different. Perhaps Europeans did the conquering more efficiently, but the concept of conquering others is not an exclusive European thing.

BTW, you guys need to stop judging the past with 2021 vision. That is presentism ( not as bad as racism, but at the end of the day an "ism").
User avatar
By Julian658
#15176904
Pants-of-dog wrote:Then show that this is actually happening.

OH, POD, you are so naive! Watch the video!


Note, how happy all kids were at the onset and how uncomfortable they were at the end.
  • 1
  • 21
  • 22
  • 23
  • 24
  • 25
  • 53
Did You Get Vaccinated?

In a just world. Bill Gates world have all of his […]

It is a lot more than a piss. The wealth leaving […]

Is Marxism old-fashioned?

https://i.postimg.cc/Pqz3dX7h/11_L[…]

This was Lincoln, showing his character. He would[…]