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By Julian658
#15176905
Pants-of-dog wrote:Then show that this is actually happening.

OH, POD, you are so naive! Watch the video!


Note, how happy all kids were at the onset and how uncomfortable they were at the end.
By Pants-of-dog
#15176912
@Julian658

1. I asked for evidence that this is happening in the USA. You showed a video of a gym class in England. England is not in the USA.

2. No one is being told they are the oppressor or the oppressed. This is just an exercise to show what it means to live with (or without) racism on a daily basis.

3.Since you feel that kids have a right to not be offended, you should support every kid that complains of racism. Since you do not, why are you only supporting the white kids this time?
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By Julian658
#15176916
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Julian658

1. I asked for evidence that this is happening in the USA. You showed a video of a gym class in England. England is not in the USA.

2. No one is being told they are the oppressor or the oppressed. This is just an exercise to show what it means to live with (or without) racism on a daily basis.

3.Since you feel that kids have a right to not be offended, you should support every kid that complains of racism. Since you do not, why are you only supporting the white kids this time?


The UK, USA, Canada, etc. ——— they are Western nations and they equally promote victimhood. Note how the POC kids feel like crap. This is done on purpose by the adults. In this way the POC kids become militant and embrace the role of the noble victim. The white kids feel bad and they may adopt the philosophy of white guilt. Frankly, it is nauseating .
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By Unthinking Majority
#15176918
Pants-of-dog wrote:Again, teachers are allowed to choose which books are on a curriculum. This is not censorship. If some teachers decided to change curricula like this, it would simply be another day in North America, since this is quite common.

I didn't say it's censorship, I said it's propaganda. You're arguing against the definition of "censorship", which is a strawman, I'm not saying it's censorship.

We both know you would have a problem with a teacher trying to turn your kid into a Trumpster, as would I. I have no problem with teachers choosing what books to have in class if it's for educational purposes in good faith, but I have a problem if the intent is to instill a particular political agenda in their students that matches the teachers.

Yes, that is relevant, since you are trying to argue that both sides are trying to indoctrinate kids, and this is not true.

If you honestly believe that you should examine your biases more closely.

No, it is not indoctrination by the state since it is only one teacher who has no state power, while it is legislators, governors and AGs who are using state power to shut down any dissent about race in schools.

Public school teachers are public servants paid by tax payers, a teacher is an agent of the government just as a cop is. They need to follow the rules of their boards, some of that comes from the government. The rule should be: no politicization, no moralizing. A cop shouldn't have political bumper stickers on their squad cars either, even if they did it themselves and not the department. They're neutral, apolitical agents and can't be seen as as partisan etc in the conduct of their duties.
By wat0n
#15176920
wat0n wrote:You tell me. Is it true that standpoint theory was initially based from a loose Marxist idea? At least Britannica seems to claim so ("Standpoint theory, a feminist theoretical perspective that argues that knowledge stems from social position. The perspective denies that traditional science is objective and suggests that research and theory have ignored and marginalized women and feminist ways of thinking. The theory emerged from the Marxist argument that people from an oppressed class have special access to knowledge that is not available to those from a privileged class. In the 1970s feminist writers inspired by that Marxist insight began to examine how inequalities between men and women influence knowledge production. Their work is related to epistemology, the branch of philosophy that examines the nature and origins of knowledge, and stresses that knowledge is always socially situated. In societies stratified by gender and other categories, such as race and class, one’s social positions shape what one can know").

Is it true standpoint epistemology is not quite in agreement with the scientific method? Again, the article would suggest so too ("Standpoint theorists also question objective empiricism—the idea that science can be objective through rigorous methodology. For instance, Harding stated that scientists have ignored their own androcentric and sexist research methods and results, despite their claims of neutrality, and that recognizing the standpoint of knowledge-producers makes people more aware of the power inherent in positions of scientific authority. According to standpoint theorists, when one starts from the perspective of women or other marginalized people, one is more likely to acknowledge the importance of standpoint and to create knowledge that is embodied, self-critical, and coherent").


So, @Pants-of-dog what do you have to say about these two points made in Britannica's article about standpoint epistemology?
User avatar
By Gardener
#15176957
MadMonk wrote:I'm sorry, what now?

European Empires back in the day 'led the fight' of whatever gave them as much power as possible in order to defeat each other for supremacy. Granted that was pretty much what everyone did, Europeans just became the greatest killing machines since the Mongol Empire.

Check out King Leopold II and the Congo Free State. Fighting hard for Black Liberation! :lol:


Oh really ? Pray do tell how abolishing slavery gave them 'as much power as possible' ?
As for King Leopold II; he was a very bad man. But his actions where NOT that of a state, but of an indivdual.
User avatar
By Gardener
#15176959
Julian658 wrote:I do not disagree. But, fighting a visible enemy is way easier than fighting an abstract enemy.

ROFL... but CRH is fighting an innocent 'enemy' :P They dare not even NAME the actual guilty 'abstract' enemy.
User avatar
By Gardener
#15176960
Pants-of-dog wrote:https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/10.2105/AJPH.2018.304559

    Objectives. To estimate the risk of mortality from police homicide by race/ethnicity and place in the United States.

    Methods. We used novel data on police-involved fatalities and Bayesian models to estimate mortality risk for Black, Latino, and White men for all US counties by Census division and metropolitan area type.

    Results. Police kill, on average, 2.8 men per day. Police were responsible for about 8% of all homicides with adult male victims between 2012 and 2018. Black men’s mortality risk is between 1.9 and 2.4 deaths per 100 000 per year, Latino risk is between 0.8 and 1.2, and White risk is between 0.6 and 0.7.

    Conclusions. Police homicide risk is higher than suggested by official data. Black and Latino men are at higher risk for death than are White men, and these disparities vary markedly across place.

    Public Health Implications. Homicide reduction efforts should consider interventions to reduce the use of lethal force by police. Efforts to address unequal police violence should target places with high mortality risk.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/artic ... ne.0229686

    On average, there were large racial/ethnic inequities in the rates at which White and Black people were killed during police contact. Across all MSAs, Black people were 3.23 times more likely to be killed compared to White people (95% CI: 2.95, 3.54, p<0.001). Latinx people were 1.05 times more likely, though this IRR was not statically significant (95% CI: 0.94, 1.17, p = 0.40).

There are also voted ID laws, stop and frisk policies, disparities in sentencing for equal crimes, drug use convictions, and other examples.


Nice try Pants of Dog, but no cigar. That study does NOT put this down to black (or latino, for that matter) oppression. For example, there is no analysis to see whether Black Men had less favourable (and more frequent) interactions because they where more aggressive in their interactions with police ? (and committed more criminal activtiy) ?

This is an aspect of society that Critical Race Hypothesists refuse to even consider, as it destroys their marxist agenda.
By late
#15176962
"Virtually all school districts insist they are not teaching critical race theory, but many activists and parents have begun using it as a catch-all term to refer to what schools often call equity programs, teaching about racism or LGBTQ-inclusive policies.

The clashes at school board meetings and online are partly anchored in “real differences” in parents’ opinions on Covid-19, race and America’s future, said Jeffrey Henig, director of the politics and education program at Columbia University’s Teachers College. “But it's being exploited by actors at the national level,” he said, “who see it as an opportunity to reshuffle the politics of the standard educational reform debate.”

“Some people are treating it like a gold rush,” O’Brien said. “This is a new area where people think they can either become famous or make money on the issue, and they’re probably right.”

“The thing that disturbs me the most about politicizing school boards is there is no mention of kids. It’s not community centered, it’s centered on political thought and theory and things that don't connect to education,” said Sonja McKenzie, a member of the board of directors of the National School Boards Action Center, which advocates for public education. “The things that have been politicized — reopening schools, mask wearing, critical race theory — a lot of these are above and beyond the purview of what you do as school boards.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cr ... s-n1270794

IOW, they can make make things worse, and make a buck doing it. There is no sense of governance here, just White Supremacy rearing it's ugly head, and making a buck off the chaos it creates, of course..
User avatar
By Gardener
#15176963
late wrote:"Virtually all school districts insist they are not teaching critical race theory, but many activists and parents have begun using it as a catch-all term to refer to what schools often call equity programs, teaching about racism or LGBTQ-inclusive policies.

NO !!
I have no problem with EQUALITY programs, and indeed think they SHOULD be taught as basic citizenship. However, EQUITY programs are completely different, and ARE part of Critical Race Hypothesis. Equity means 'equality of outcome', and that is the antithesis of what schools should be about. Under true equity, nobody would actually qualify. Or rather - EVERYBODY would qualify in ALL subjects, rendering the qualification utterly useless and meaningless.

IOW, they can make make things worse, and make a buck doing it. There is no sense of governance here, just White Supremacy rearing it's ugly head, and making a buck off the chaos it creates, of course..

No again.. that is NOT 'in other words'. That is YOUR interpretation of events.. and a rather counterintuitive one it is too.
By late
#15176965
Gardener wrote:

No again.. that is NOT 'in other words'. That is YOUR interpretation of events..

and a rather counterintuitive one it is too.



That's a distinction without a difference... and my interpretation comes from decades of experience.

For most of my life, Right wing BS has been a cottage industry; an easy way to make a buck, if you have the stomach for it. It's hardly like they are subtle about they're lying...
By Pants-of-dog
#15176975
Julian658 wrote:The UK, USA, Canada, etc. ——— they are Western nations and they equally promote victimhood. Note how the POC kids feel like crap. This is done on purpose by the adults. In this way the POC kids become militant and embrace the role of the noble victim. The white kids feel bad and they may adopt the philosophy of white guilt. Frankly, it is nauseating .


Yeah, the way kids of colour get mad at society because their society treats them like second class citizens is a thing. You would prefer that kids of colour just accept their role as second class citizens so that white kids do not have to know about racism.

———————-

Unthinking Majority wrote:I didn't say it's censorship, I said it's propaganda. You're arguing against the definition of "censorship", which is a strawman, I'm not saying it's censorship.


It is not even propaganda.

This is propaganda:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/even-homer ... 1609095872

By that I mean that the author deliberately distorts the truth in order to forward a political idea.

The teacher did not do that at all.

We both know you would have a problem with a teacher trying to turn your kid into a Trumpster, as would I. I have no problem with teachers choosing what books to have in class if it's for educational purposes in good faith, but I have a problem if the intent is to instill a particular political agenda in their students that matches the teachers.


Since this did not happen either with the teacher, Iam goung to move on.

But if this type of politicking in classes bothers you, then you should be arguing with @Gardener and @wat0n and @Julian658.

Public school teachers are public servants paid by tax payers, a teacher is an agent of the government just as a cop is. They need to follow the rules of their boards, some of that comes from the government. The rule should be: no politicization, no moralizing. A cop shouldn't have political bumper stickers on their squad cars either, even if they did it themselves and not the department. They're neutral, apolitical agents and can't be seen as as partisan etc in the conduct of their duties.


Okay, point to the state directive that this teacher was supposedly following.

I can, in turn, point to actual legislation that is being forced on teachers.

The two are not comparable.

Also, the phrase “racism is bad” is political. Should it not be taught in schools, then?
By Pants-of-dog
#15176976
Gardener wrote:Nice try Pants of Dog, but no cigar. That study does NOT put this down to black (or latino, for that matter) oppression. For example, there is no analysis to see whether Black Men had less favourable (and more frequent) interactions because they where more aggressive in their interactions with police ? (and committed more criminal activtiy) ?

This is an aspect of society that Critical Race Hypothesists refuse to even consider, as it destroys their marxist agenda.


Please quote the parts of the study which support your claim about it. Also, since I cited two studies, I will assume that only one of these studies is being questioned and the other one satisfies your demand for evidence.
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By Julian658
#15176977
Pants-of-dog wrote:Yeah, the way kids of colour get mad at society because their society treats them like second class citizens is a thing. You would prefer that kids of colour just accept their role as second class citizens so that white kids do not have to know about racism.



I do not disagree with the concept that coming a good family with resources creates advantage and privilege. This can also be seen within ethnic groups and is class related.

You and your minions want to point this differences as evidence of racism which is simplistic and naive. Racism is just one of a multitude of factors that determine the future outcome of any given individual. This univariate view of the problem is WRONG. All you are doing is promoting victimhood. You promote the concept that anyone that has issues in life is a victim of whiteness, This promotes resentment and more racism.
By Pants-of-dog
#15176982
@Julian658

Yes, racism is only one factor in success.

Good thing no one argued otherwise!
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By Julian658
#15176985
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Julian658

Yes, racism is only one factor in success.

Good thing no one argued otherwise!

POD, there are a lot of hurdles to success and discrimination is one of them.

Assume we eliminate discrimination. Do you think we will achieve equity among humans? Yes or no?
By Pants-of-dog
#15176986
Julian658 wrote:POD, there are a lot of hurdles to success and discrimination is one of them.

Assume we eliminate discrimination. Do you think we will achieve equity among humans? Yes or no?


Did you mean “equality”?
User avatar
By Julian658
#15176987
Pants-of-dog wrote:Did you mean “equality”?

Equity is the new buzz word of people in the extreme left. This picture will help you understand. The indirect message is equal outcomes which is an impossibility in many instances.
Image

By the way I watched the video again about CRT in schools.


It is nothing but brain washing and the colored kids feel miserable at the end of the session. POC children should not be subjected to victimhood indoctrination.
By late
#15176991
Julian658 wrote:
It is nothing but brain washing



Julian will keep repeating the same lies until he wins. And then they will come looking for him. He really ought to take a look at the history of his new country...
By Pants-of-dog
#15176992
Julian658 wrote:Equity is the new buzz word of people in the extreme left. This picture will help you understand. The indirect message is equal outcomes which is an impossibility in many instances.
Image


So what is the argument?

By the way I watched the video again about CRT in schools.


It is nothing but brain washing and the colored kids feel miserable at the end of the session. POC children should not be subjected to victimhood indoctrination.


I see.

You think the POC kids are too stupid to understand that racism exists unless Marxists tell them it does, and you want them to be blissfully ignorant.
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