The Biden-Putin Summit Meeting. - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15177207
[Quoting myself from another source:]

"The meeting of President Joseph Biden and President Vladimir Putin was, and was intended to be, theater. The audience already knew the plot,* and was intent on the performance. What was sought were flubs and miss-steps. It appears, reading the reviews [Ed.: to continue the analogy,] that the leading actors were well-rehearsed and directed. As with many contemporary plays, there was no final climactic denouement.

"Regards, stay safe 'n well.

"* They also knew some of the lines verbatim."
#15177338
Biden should not have taken this meeting. Putin got a lot of press and came out looking pretty good. He paid nothing for the meeting.
#15177362
@Drlee

To jaw-jaw is always better than to war-war.

Winston Churchill
#15177364
Drlee wrote:
Biden should not have taken this meeting. Putin got a lot of press and came out looking pretty good. He paid nothing for the meeting.



I felt the same way going in. I don't know that anyone remembers it, at this point, but I advocated for a pretty aggressive approach.

Now that the dust is settling, I think Biden is better at diplomacy than I am. He got his message across.
#15177372
@late

I would have to disagree. Even though Putin is a dictator, realistically speaking he's got plenty of nuclear weapons and plenty of armor to sweep into Ukraine. Ukraine doesn't need to have a Russian invasion sweeping anymore into it's country costing a lot of lives in what potentially could have been a war that is preventable in the first place. That is not to say that by talking to Putin we are appeasing this dictator.

We are establishing our boundaries that we can realistically back up with Putin and are worth being prepared to go to war over such as a direct Russian armed invasion of a NATO member for example. Plus, we can lay down our boundaries with Putin where we will respond if any cyber threat actors coming from Russia strike certain pieces of our infrastructure. That way, Putin knows ahead time where those boundaries are and knows to expect a response in the cyber landscape if any cyber threat actors coming from Russia hit certain pieces of our infrastructure (which Biden gave Putin a list of pieces of our infrastructure that are off limits).

This helps to reduce the likelihood of armed conflict between NATO and Russia as well as a cyber war between the U.S. and Russia that could become very costly for both sides quickly. If such an armed conflict or cyber war breaks out, neither side is going to profit or win. In addition, it's important to engage in arms control with the Russians to reduce the likelihood of nuclear war and the destruction of humanity. So, in my view, Biden was smart to have a summit with Putin and talk to him. You have to talk to Putin in a pragmatic and business like fashion.

We are not his friend and he is not our friend and he knows that. But, talking to him is important to reduce the likelihood of conflict and a cyber war and this is done by establishing boundaries with him so he knows ahead of time where those boundaries are and being pragmatic and business like with him. I think Biden did this and did a good job.
#15177373
Politics_Observer wrote:
@late

I would have to disagree. Even though Putin is a dictator, realistically speaking he's got plenty of nuclear weapons and plenty of armor to sweep into Ukraine. Ukraine doesn't need to have a Russian invasion sweeping anymore into it's country costing a lot of lives in what potentially could have been a war that is preventable in the first place. That is not to say that by talking to Putin we are appeasing this dictator.

We are establishing our boundaries that we can realistically back up with Putin and are worth being prepared to go to war over such as a direct Russian armed invasion of a NATO member for example. Plus, we can lay down our boundaries with Putin where we will respond if any cyber threat actors coming from Russia strike certain pieces of our infrastructure. That way, Putin knows ahead time where those boundaries are and knows to expect a response in the cyber landscape if any cyber threat actors coming from Russia hit certain pieces of our infrastructure (which Biden gave Putin a list of pieces of our infrastructure that are off limits).

This helps to reduce the likelihood of armed conflict between NATO and Russia as well as a cyber war between the U.S. and Russia that could become very costly for both sides quickly. If such an armed conflict or cyber war breaks out, neither side is going to profit or win. In addition, it's important to engage in arms control with the Russians to reduce the likelihood of nuclear war and the destruction of humanity. So, in my view, Biden was smart to have a summit with Putin and talk to him. You have to talk to Putin in a pragmatic and business like fashion.

We are not his friend and he is not our friend and he knows that. But, talking to him is important to reduce the likelihood of conflict and a cyber war and this is done by establishing boundaries with him so he knows ahead of time where those boundaries are and being pragmatic and business like with him. I think Biden did this and did a good job.



That's what I meant when I said Biden is better at diplomacy than I am.

Not that I think Putin will play nice, but for now, a bad peace is better than a good war..
#15177374
Politics_Observer wrote:@late

I would have to disagree. Even though Putin is a dictator, realistically speaking he's got plenty of nuclear weapons and plenty of armor to sweep into Ukraine. Ukraine doesn't need to have a Russian invasion sweeping anymore into it's country costing a lot of lives in what potentially could have been a war that is preventable in the first place. That is not to say that by talking to Putin we are appeasing this dictator.

We are establishing our boundaries that we can realistically back up with Putin and are worth being prepared to go to war over such as a direct Russian armed invasion of a NATO member for example. Plus, we can lay down our boundaries with Putin where we will respond if any cyber threat actors coming from Russia strike certain pieces of our infrastructure. That way, Putin knows ahead time where those boundaries are and knows to expect a response in the cyber landscape if any cyber threat actors coming from Russia hit certain pieces of our infrastructure (which Biden gave Putin a list of pieces of our infrastructure that are off limits).

This helps to reduce the likelihood of armed conflict between NATO and Russia as well as a cyber war between the U.S. and Russia that could become very costly for both sides quickly. If such an armed conflict or cyber war breaks out, neither side is going to profit or win. In addition, it's important to engage in arms control with the Russians to reduce the likelihood of nuclear war and the destruction of humanity. So, in my view, Biden was smart to have a summit with Putin and talk to him. You have to talk to Putin in a pragmatic and business like fashion.

We are not his friend and he is not our friend and he knows that. But, talking to him is important to reduce the likelihood of conflict and a cyber war and this is done by establishing boundaries with him so he knows ahead of time where those boundaries are and being pragmatic and business like with him. I think Biden did this and did a good job.




Well said. Even though I am Trumpist, and therefore inclined to anti Bidenism, I have to say as days go by I do see a lot of wisdom and marturity in senile Joe's approach :lol:

It does not mean that, despite all the best intentions and efforts, that things may not end up going south. But the chances of both sides blindly blundering into confrontations are vastly reduced. Communications chanels have been reopened. And of utmost importance, the reassurance to Putin that he is being listened to and his concerns taken seriously. We have to keep in mind that in the end we are all humans, with our eccentricities and all; and Putin and Biden are not exceptions. I dont know what kind of grip Putin has over his own nerves. I think Biden has a good grip over his. Trump was a disaster when it came to grip over his nerves. Last thing anyone wants is Putin going off half cocked a la Trump.

What next for the Russians?

Hard to say. They play the long game. In western democracies four years is an eternity. But we must realise that Putinn has been there for twenty years plus. It makes a world of a difference. If Putin came out relieved and satisfied from the summit, does that mean things have changed? I say it only means that what ever play was scheduled for the immediate future is moved back to holding pattern. Till some future time, maybe under a different administration, when another opportunity presents itself. They play the long game. Like a toad at the mouth of a termite hole. The toad sits patiently and waits, and waits, in the confidence that at some point some hapless termite will emerge, and its long tongue will lash out to swap it up. I doubt the Russians are done with the Balkans and Baltics. Like the toad they will wait and sit patiently. Waiting and waiting. It could be decades. But they will pounce if and when an opportunity presents itself.

And I suspect the Balkans and the Baltic midgets know that. They understand the oriental mindset very well, being themselves orientals. They know as long as a rump Russia exists the threat remains. And you can sense it in the Baltic midgets. In the Poles as well. Even safely snug inside Nato they still exude a sense of panic and anxiety. Like a victim who has managed to escape Castle Dracula but somehow has not put what he will consider a safe distance from the accursed Castle.

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