Well it has finally happened. A barrier will be broke. I am not necessary against trans people entering sport, but I do question if weight lifting understand why they have separate male and female events given this decision.
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wat0n wrote:I think we should just wait and see how this goes. The IOC has some serum test level requirements so whatever advantage would arise from past male puberty and the like - we can always give it a try and see how this works in practice. IIRC she's not the favorite to win anyway.
Objective To examine the effect of gender affirming hormones on athletic performance among transwomen and transmen.
Methods We reviewed fitness test results and medical records of 29 transmen and 46 transwomen who started gender affirming hormones while in the United States Air Force. We compared pre- and post-hormone fitness test results of the transwomen and transmen with the average performance of all women and men under the age of 30 in the Air Force between 2004 and 2014. We also measured the rate of hormone associated changes in body composition and athletic performance.
Results Participants were 26.2 years old (SD 5.5). Prior to gender affirming hormones, transwomen performed 31% more push-ups and 15% more sit-ups in 1 min and ran 1.5 miles 21% faster than their female counterparts. After 2 years of taking feminising hormones, the push-up and sit-up differences disappeared but transwomen were still 12% faster. Prior to gender affirming hormones, transmen performed 43% fewer push-ups and ran 1.5 miles 15% slower than their male counterparts. After 1 year of taking masculinising hormones, there was no longer a difference in push-ups or run times, and the number of sit-ups performed in 1 min by transmen exceeded the average performance of their male counterparts.
Summary The 15–31% athletic advantage that transwomen displayed over their female counterparts prior to starting gender affirming hormones declined with feminising therapy. However, transwomen still had a 9% faster mean run speed after the 1 year period of testosterone suppression that is recommended by World Athletics for inclusion in women’s events.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/11/577. ... eytype=ref
Crantag wrote:Testosterone is one thing. What of muscle mass? What of muscle mass attained pre-castration? What of bone structure? What of various other physiological differences? If there aren't physiological differences why are woman more flexible and with higher pain tolerance?
What of estrogen?
It is a total farce.
And it is obviously the so called liberal social justice warriors behind it.
Pants-of-dog wrote:I think it would depend on the sport.
The international governing body for women’s flat track roller derby, WFTDA, had this debate years ago and finally decided on full inclusion for trans athletes. While I am unaware of rigourous peer reviewed scientific studies, there have been many informal studies and there seems to be no real advantage for those teams with athletes that transitioned from being identified as male.
The study cited by @ThirdTerm suggests that this may not be the case for certain running sports.
While I am unaware of rigourous peer reviewed scientific studies, there have been many informal studies and there seems to be no real advantage for those teams with athletes that transitioned from being identified as male.
Your ignorance is not evidence.
Pants-of-dog wrote:That is true.
Our ignorance is not an argument or evidence for either side.
This study says that the vast majority of policies dealing with trans athletes are not science based:
Currently, there is no direct or consistent research suggesting transgender female individuals (or male individuals) have an athletic advantage at any stage of their transition (e.g. cross-sex hormones, gender-confirming surgery) and, therefore, competitive sport policies that place restrictions on transgender people need to be considered and potentially revised.
The other studies I looked at focused on gender studies and how roller derby challenges traditional gender norms, and there was no discussion on athletic performance.
Crantag wrote:You can use your eyes and your common sense.
When I go to roller derby games where only women play, I notice a broad range of body types. Some are small, some thin , some tall, some thick.
When I go to roller derby games where both sexes play, I notice a broad range of body types. Some are small, some thin, some tall, and s9me thick.
So that is using my eyes.
Now, my common sense tells me that this means that body size variation occurs within each gender more than between genders.
Crantag wrote:I don't care about trannys playing roller dirby.
That's whatever. It's just fucking roller dirby.
The thread was about Olympic weightlifting (and by extension other Olympic sports, and by extension other real professional sports).
I don't know if it's proper for roller dirby or not, but it's just roller dirby so I figure who cares.
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