Liz Cheney for president - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By jimjam
#15177559
I neither know nor care what her voting record is but I will certainly vote for her simply on the basis that she seems to be the lone voice in a wilderness of Republican puke inducing cowards who is willing to stand up to the criminal Trump Gang and point out obvious truths.

Stop the steal ……. :lol: . Give me a break...….. Fat Donald himself is doing his best to pull off a steal behind the thin façade of pretending, in the face of zero evidence beyond a couple of votes here and there and endless recounts that have turned America into an embarrassing joke, that he is being robbed. The Fat Guy incites a deadly mob that actually takes over the US Capital for the first time since the British did it during the war of 1812 and the Gutless Republican Wonders say really really dumb shit like "just another day in Washington" ….. "Oh they were just exercising free speech" ….

Hang in there Liz but, be careful. Crime gangs far weaker than the Trump Crime Gang have offed their enemies for far lower stakes than you are playing for.
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By Drlee
#15177732
She is a winner. She and Romney are about the last sane voices in the Republican Party. And when I say that remember that I am a republican.
#15177747
Drlee wrote:She is a winner. She and Romney are about the last sane voices in the Republican Party. And when I say that remember that I am a republican.

How could we forget? You keep reminding us so often. :)
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By Drlee
#15177754
I do. I enjoy being up the collective noses of the right wing drones in my party.
#15177790
While I respect her far more than the post-fact crowd in the Republican party, she is losing the battle against them, as far as I can tell.

Has she had any victories since losing her position as 3rd most powerful Republican?
#15177791
I would rather see Mitt Romney as head of the Republican party.
#15177795
I don't see how any of them are going to do anything different as long as we have Wall Street Capitalists running the show. Maybe she would make different mouth sounds, but when push came to shove she'll do what she is told by the rich sociopaths running the country from behind the scenes.

No matter which party holds the presidency, the basic structure of politics will be the same. Handouts for the MIC, banks, corporations, and rich people.

Not much of substance for anyone else except a bunch of side-tracking social issue BS that begins it's life as a way to keep the majority of people divided against the other.
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By Drlee
#15177899
@PataOneil I don't see how any of them are going to do anything different as long as we have Wall Street Capitalists running the show. Maybe she would make different mouth sounds, but when push came to shove she'll do what she is told by the rich sociopaths running the country from behind the scenes.

No matter which party holds the presidency, the basic structure of politics will be the same. Handouts for the MIC, banks, corporations, and rich people.

Not much of substance for anyone else except a bunch of side-tracking social issue BS that begins it's life as a way to keep the majority of people divided against the other.


Every word of this true. The republicans will continue to shout IMMIGRANTS, GUNS, GAYS, ABORTION and the democrats shout RACISM, ENVIRONMENT, LGBTQrstuv, LIAR.

The only difference is that the Republicans have and will continue to win this game of misdirection because they are far better at it. And their coalition has the advantage of being racially defined.
#15177900
@Drlee

Your party that you stand by continues with efforts to deny American citizens their legitimate right to vote by making voting more difficult for them. Especially black voters. Your party, the republican party, continues with efforts to destroy American democracy and the freedom and rights of our citizens. Your party has lost moral legitimacy. How can you stand by your party while it does this?

What about our democracy and our country? Isn't this more important than party? I don't trust the true motives behind Liz Cheny's moves. I think for her it is more about getting elected or moving into a more powerful position than about preserving our democracy. I have serious doubts that she has the best interests of our country truly in her heart. I think she is disingenuous though she might deny it.

I think the republican party is really a party mainly about power and privilege for white people only than it is about things like patriotism, truly looking out for the best interests of the U.S. and ensuring the continued survival of American democracy and the rights and freedom of it's citizens. The republican party is not about serving something greater and more important than itself such as the country for example. It is a party about self service. Especially for white rich people.
User avatar
By Drlee
#15177902
Your party that you stand by continues with efforts to deny American citizens their legitimate right to vote by making voting more difficult for them. How can you stand by your party while it does this?


I don't stand by this effort of my party. I realize that I have far more power to defeat it as a party member than I would has a Democrat shaking my fist and yelling. The Republicans are not even remotely concerned about what Democrats think and only somewhat concerned about those who register independent. They are doggedly and effectively sticking to their ultra conservative coalition and are staying on message. They are taking over state houses and mastering gerrymandering. They have virtually ensured that 25% if Americans will control political discourse for the next 30 years or so.


What about our democracy and our country? Isn't this more important than party?


Yes. But that is not the question. The question is "what should be done about it". How much effect on the Republican anti-democratic movement do you think a demonstration of LGBTQ, Native American, environmentalists has? None. Zip. Nada. My joining that group and shouting from the outside would weaken its strength as opposed to my chipping away from the inside where I have a weak but not insignificant voice.

I don't trust the true motives behind Liz Cheny's moves. I think for her it is more about getting elected or moving into a more powerful position than about preserving our democracy. I have serious doubts that she has the best interests of our country truly in her heart.


Why? Have you ruled out opposition from withing the Republican party? I can assure you it is there. IF IF IF the Trumpists start to lose their hold on the party, that voice gets a bit louder. Right now this is not an emotional issue for the party leadership. It is a cold, dispassionate and carefully considered plan to gain political power. If dumping Trump and raising up a lesbian whale watcher would do it the party leadership would hug her like a grandchild. Issues are means of controlling votes. The individual merits of these issues is of little importance.
#15177904
Drlee wrote:She is a winner. She and Romney are about the last sane voices in the Republican Party. And when I say that remember that I am a republican.

It is offtopic, but why keep identifying yourself after a group of people that clearly you do not share common ideological grounds with? I would have understood the hesitancy early on, but its been years, time to move on. You are not a republican. My condolences.

Now back on topic. Liz Cheney is not some sort of savior or hero of the story, neither is Mit Romney. Granted, they are both ways better than Troll Trump (TT), but the bar is so low that it is not a fair comparison. There have been reports that takes into account the voting records and it appears Liz Cheney has a stronger voting record in alignment with Trump's agenda than even so of his "true and tried supporters" such as Stefanik. It is a mirage, Cheney is not some sort of integrity bastion. If I were to take a guess, I think she, likely many other republicans that secretly hate trumpism, made a calculated bet that coming out early and strong(ish) would boost her, seems she was wrong.
#15177911
XogGyux wrote:It is offtopic, but why keep identifying yourself after a group of people that clearly you do not share common ideological grounds with? I would have understood the hesitancy early on, but its been years, time to move on. You are not a republican. My condolences.

Now back on topic. Liz Cheney is not some sort of savior or hero of the story, neither is Mit Romney. Granted, they are both ways better than Troll Trump (TT), but the bar is so low that it is not a fair comparison. There have been reports that takes into account the voting records and it appears Liz Cheney has a stronger voting record in alignment with Trump's agenda than even so of his "true and tried supporters" such as Stefanik. It is a mirage, Cheney is not some sort of integrity bastion. If I were to take a guess, I think she, likely many other republicans that secretly hate trumpism, made a calculated bet that coming out early and strong(ish) would boost her, seems she was wrong.


The older I get @XogGyux the more I realize that people should be judged by their actions, their values and their thoughts. But above all how they live their lives. Do they work hard and contribute? Do they avoid lying and value honesty? Are they respectful and inclusive? Do they know how to be civil to everyone? Do they avoid being snobs? Do they believe in justice for the many? Are they always trying to find ways of helping other people in need? Are they good fathers, brothers, husbands and friends? If the answer is yes to all of those things? I think political leanings have very little to do with their lives. I have met a lot of people in my life who disagree with my political thoughts completely but when they get to know me want friendship and love sharing their lives with me. They then wind up having civil conversations about politics and they are far more disposed to listen objectively to my political points of view due to liking me as a person than if they did not like me and had no interest in being my friend. Your actual actions and how you live your values is far more important than the rhetoric and thoughts about which political party you aspire to say you are part of.

For me Republicans in general are not people I think are very just, fair or intelligent. But have I met just and fair and intelligent Republicans? Yes. Individuals always vary in every political party.

The most intelligent people I have ever met in my life tended to be either Communists or Anarchists. And neither are well received in Western politics. I don't like the Tories in the UK at all. Or the Republicans in the USA. But I have met people who are the sons or daughters of Tories and Republicans whom I do like a lot. And find very intelligent.

In the end? What you do and how you are with others is far more important than what label you stick with in political discourse. That is my opinion.

I have always like you XogGyux. For many reasons. Above all, because you have integrity and you don't say things you don't mean. You also are focused and also mature in many ways. I come from another experience in life. That makes us different. But in the end, I value people for who they are. ;)
#15177920
Tainari88 wrote:The older I get @XogGyux the more I realize that people should be judged by their actions, their values and their thoughts. But above all how they live their lives. Do they work hard and contribute? Do they avoid lying and value honesty? Are they respectful and inclusive? Do they know how to be civil to everyone? Do they avoid being snobs? Do they believe in justice for the many? Are they always trying to find ways of helping other people in need? Are they good fathers, brothers, husbands and friends? If the answer is yes to all of those things? I think political leanings have very little to do with their lives. I have met a lot of people in my life who disagree with my political thoughts completely but when they get to know me want friendship and love sharing their lives with me. They then wind up having civil conversations about politics and they are far more disposed to listen objectively to my political points of view due to liking me as a person than if they did not like me and had no interest in being my friend. Your actual actions and how you live your values is far more important than the rhetoric and thoughts about which political party you aspire to say you are part of.

For me Republicans in general are not people I think are very just, fair or intelligent. But have I met just and fair and intelligent Republicans? Yes. Individuals always vary in every political party.

The most intelligent people I have ever met in my life tended to be either Communists or Anarchists. And neither are well received in Western politics. I don't like the Tories in the UK at all. Or the Republicans in the USA. But I have met people who are the sons or daughters of Tories and Republicans whom I do like a lot. And find very intelligent.

In the end? What you do and how you are with others is far more important than what label you stick with in political discourse. That is my opinion.

I have always like you XogGyux. For many reasons. Above all, because you have integrity and you don't say things you don't mean. You also are focused and also mature in many ways. I come from another experience in life. That makes us different. But in the end, I value people for who they are. ;)

I am OK with that. But I prefer to call things for what they are.
#15177928
@Drlee

It's important to remember you don't owe loyalty to any party or group or person or friend or even family members who betray your values and the values of our nation. The republican party today has betrayed the values of our nation. It is waging war on our democracy. This is not acceptable. The republican party today doesn't even have any real policies or ideas. It's only policy and ideas is to get power through any means. Not to serve the American people. In the past, I gladly voted for people like Senator John McCain who was a great American patriot. But today, the republican party has lost it's way.
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By Drlee
#15178316
It's important to remember you don't owe loyalty to any party or group or person or friend or even family members who betray your values and the values of our nation.


I agree. But that is not my argument.


The republican party today has betrayed the values of our nation. It is waging war on our democracy. This is not acceptable.


Yes. And they do not give a rat's ass what a democrat thinks about that. The DO care what their own party members think about that. This is a tactical decision, not an emotional one. I can speak to them at republican party meetings. What I might say at a democratic party meeting is irrelevant.

The republican party today doesn't even have any real policies or ideas.


I beg to differ. In many ways it has more than the democrats do. They have a policy of voter suppression to achieve power. They have a policy of obstruction of ideas from the left. They are rabidly pro gun. They are moderately anti-abortion. They are strongly in favor of business. They want lower taxes even at the expense of massive deficits. They are for sorta free trade. No. They have tons of ideas and policies. Taking over state governments by budgeting substantial money for state elections is of enormous importance. You will take them lightly at your peril. They are very smart and have been very effective.

It's only policy and ideas is to get power through any means.


No. They get power by any means so they can forward their ideas.

Not to serve the American people.


They would disagree. So would the 70 million people who voted for Trump. They would tell you that they are serving the best interests of the American people. They would point to the Coolidge misquote, "The business of America is business".
And rememberIn the past, I gladly voted for people like Senator John McCain who was a great American patriot.


McCain was able to save Obamacare because he was a republican. Not despite it. McCain knew that he had to be a voice in the party. It was a huge hit to lose him.

But today, the republican party has lost it's way.


Perhaps. I am not sure they would agree. Again. 70+ million Americans voted their way. They are not clinging to power. They are gaining power. They seem to have the Democrats back on their heels. I can tell you this though. If they are ever to get back on their way it will not be a democrat who sets them on the path. Only a movement within the party has a chance to work.

So I will tell you that it may be that it is my patriotic duty to stay in the party and work for change. Running away never won any battle. Right?
#15178331
@Drlee

Running away never won a battle, but it enables you to live to fight another day. :) Sometimes, it's OK to run away from a fight you can't win. Sometimes, it's the smart thing to do. I am not saying be a coward but I am saying be smart. I certainly believe in the Sun Tzu concept of outsmarting rather than outfighting the enemy is best.
#15178337
@Drlee

For example, Joe Biden made the tactical decision to run away from voting rights because he knew that was a battle he couldn't win. He then took that extra time he bought himself by running away from voting rights to focus on winning battles he could possibly win, such as infrastructure. It was a smart move. He is gambling that if he can make wins on infrastructure this in turn can help strengthen our democracy and the fight for the vote further down the line.

But voting rights as it stands right now is a fight he can't win. So, he made the smart tactical move by retreating from that fight temporarily so the he can later on win the war. And you have to admit, the parents who tricked the NRA into giving a speech to 3,044 empty chairs representing dead high school seniors from gun violence was pretty smart. I can't imagine the NRA was happy about that :lol:
#15178388
Liz Cheney and Mitt Romney are evil fucking ghouls. The only reason they have any cache is because the Republican party has just become more evil. These people would have been hated radical right wingers 20 years ago.
#15178539
Tainari88 wrote:In the end? What you do and how you are with others is far more important than what label you stick with in political discourse. That is my opinion.


Hi Tainari88, I am not around as much these days because a serious accident took me, literally, to death's door. I actually thought for two days, "So, this is what it is like to die."

But, to your point, I agree. I have been married for 18 years to a "republican" who is highly intelligent and has a big and loving heart. To myself the heart is most important with the head in second place. Am I to follow the current culture/climate that prevails in America and hate those who hold political views I disagree with? Politics is hardly everything when choosing our friends and associates. Not even close.

What political stripe am I? I don't think any stripe. I observe, think and judge each individual. Trump? Obviously I don't care for the man. Not because he is a republican but because I see him as an evil money worshiping con artist and a liar who will throw the entire American public under the bus to satisfy his psychotic delusions.

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