Lawlessness in San Fransisco - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15177680
Because of the pie chart. And the breakdown of fees... also in the document.

And because I've talked to the person who compiled the report at the LAO. Goes on a county by county basis concerning which other agencies get the funds. But if you read more carefully you find that some always goes to the courts. I've also talked to the adminstrators of the general funds of the counties into which these funds flow. Very often even the Public Defender is getting money received by the court's findings of guilt.

Are you familiar with the term "conflict of interest"?

:)
#15177683
The document I supplied you with is only a summary.

"California’s Criminal Fine and Fee System. Upon conviction of a criminal offense (including traffic violations), individuals are typically required by the court to pay various fines and fees as part of their punishment. Collection programs—operated by both courts and counties—collect payments from individuals and then distribute them to numerous funds to support various state and local government programs and services. Distribution occurs in accordance to a very complex process dictated by state law. "

It's considerably longer.

https://lao.ca.gov/reports/2016/3322/cr ... 010516.pdf
#15177684
wat0n wrote:So you have information that's not in the report that justifies your claim, and I'm supposed to be able to tell from it this is the case? :?:


That's not true, all the information is there, you just aren't doing a very good job of reading it.
#15177689
I'll check the longer report out when I have time. But if courts are indeed getting funds from specific verdicts, then that quite evidently needs to change.

This does not justify turning these thefts into misdemeanors and then being surprised when they happen more often though.
#15177691
Yeah, I would never intervene to attempt to accost a guy shoplifting from Walgreens. If I was walking in while he was coming out, I'd be far more likely to hold the door for him, quite frankly.

I have 'intervened' before though, a couple of times. One time, I walked up on an old guy beating up an older woman in a Seoul subway station. I held the guy while the woman ran away, then I let him go after she was gone.

Another time, I was sleeping outdoors in Portland. A junky was giving a hard time to a young lady (who was also a drug user) who was sleeping near me. I got in the middle and persuaded the junky guy to fuck off.

For example.

Mind you, I certainly took a risk to my personal safety on both occasions. You can be a good fist fighter, but it doesn't matter too much if they have a knife or something.

I've had knives pulled on me twice. The first time I jumped off a back balcony. The second time, I disarmed her in this case with my skateboard (and managed not to strike a blow--intimidation worked).
#15177693
wat0n wrote:I'll check the longer report out when I have time. But if courts are indeed getting funds from specific verdicts, then that quite evidently needs to change.

There is no "if" about it. Even the shorter document I've cited points it out.

This does not justify turning these thefts into misdemeanors and then being surprised when they happen more often though.


I'm not justifying thefts. I simply do not care about them. Such things are part of the price greedy people pay when they divert too many resources from the society that nurtures them. What I was pointing out is that the law is supposed to help a community live together... that property is held in community. If the community doesn't agree with the way resources are being distributed then the law is oppressive and not fulfilling it's purpose.

Which is why you have people looting and rioting... and others protesting.

The USA locks up more people than any other country on Earth... including China which has three times our population.

The US is a police state, which means cops and the justice system are corrupted in the interests of those who rule.

That is the very situation that caused the founders to overthrow British Law here in North America.

It's in the Declaration.
#15177695
PataOneil wrote:I'm not justifying thefts. I simply do not care about them. Such things are part of the price greedy people pay when they divert too many resources from the society that nurtures them. What I was pointing out is that the law is supposed to help a community live together... that property is held in community. If the community doesn't agree with the way resources are being distributed then the law is oppressive and not fulfilling it's purpose.

Which is why you have people looting and rioting... and others protesting.

The USA locks up more people than any other country on Earth... including China which has three times our population.

The US is a police state, which means cops and the justice system are corrupted in the interests of those who rule.

That is the very situation that caused the founders to overthrow British Law here in North America.

It's in the Declaration.


This all sounds like justifying theft.

As for your other comment, no, if you want to make your case you are the one who has to cite the statute.
#15177806
Well it turns out there is a happy ending to this story. The guy who committed this theft on video tape was arrested by the San Fransisco police department. However, my next question is this: Did they only pursue this suspect because the video tape of his stealing so brazenly out in the open and with impunity made the news? Will the San Fransisco police department start cracking down on shoplifters now or is this just a one time arrest for PR purposes simply because it was caught on tape and made the news this time?

Eric Levenson of CNN wrote:A man suspected of brazenly shoplifting items at a Walgreens in San Francisco last week was arrested while carrying out another such theft on Saturday morning, according to police, and is accused of a spree of similar crimes.

The videotaped shoplifting was a stark example of what chain drug stores and local officials said was a broader, persistent problem in the city.
Jean Lugo-Romero, 40, was arrested just after 8:30 a.m. Saturday at a drug store on the 400 block of Haight Street in San Francisco, police said in a statement on Twitter. Police did not identify the store, but a CVS sits on the block.

Officers with the SFPD Northern Station Street Crimes Unit saw Lugo-Romero enter the store and found him "clearing shelves of cosmetics and placing the merchandise into a duffel bag," police said. He was taken into custody without incident. The merchandise was valued at about $978, SFPD said.

For Saturday's incident, Lugo-Romero was booked into the San Francisco County Jail on charges of attempted grand theft; entering a business with the intent to commit theft, loss under $950; possession of narcotics paraphernalia; and a warrant for failure to appear on a prior theft case, according to police.

SFPD said they had already been looking for Lugo-Romero, who was suspected of committing thefts from merchants in the Northern and Mission Districts. Police described him in a tweet as a "prolific retail theft suspect."

In particular, police said Lugo-Romero was the man in last week's viral video, captured by a reporter for CNN affiliate KGO, that shows a suspected shoplifter taking items from a Walgreens and putting them into a black garbage bag.

The theft continued even as three people, including the store's security guard, began filming on their cell phones just feet away. The suspect then put the bag of items on his bike and rode toward the guard, who attempted to grab at the bag but allowed him to pass. The shoplifter then left the store with the bag on the bike, the video shows. No one was injured.

For that incident, Lugo-Romero was booked on charges of second-degree burglary, grand theft, two counts of entering a business with intent to commit theft, loss under $950, and two counts of petty theft, according to police.

In addition, he was booked on three counts of robbery and one count of burglary for incidents at that same Walgreens on May 29, May 30, May 31 and June 1, police said. He further was booked on charges for entering a business with intent to commit theft, loss under $950, and petty theft for an incident last Thursday at the 400 Haight Street business.

According to county booking information, Lugo-Romero has a $2,500 bond for a total of 16 charges and is still in custody. A court date has not yet been set, according to the public defender's office. CNN is seeking more information from the district attorney's office.


https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/22/us/shopl ... index.html
#15178889
Politics_Observer wrote:I found another video on the Bystander Effect from PBS.


In addition , and more directly to the point of this topic thread , there has been the phenomenon of " Walmart fights " , caught on tape . No one dares to try to break them up , and police are getting overwhelmed be the instances of violence , in some locations . For some examples , here are some news stories , and video footage .
( A policeman was there this time at least )
( A compilation of incidents )
#15178926
It's cute they gave it a nice name and all, but the bystander effect is absolutely a logical outcome for incidents that threaten a single other individual and not a whole group in a functioning society. You should only try to protect yourself first, others second, in a serious terrorist or mass murder incident. Only a brainlet would intervene in anything else without being 100% required to do so. Best thing you can do is call ambulance, fire brigade, police or site security and offer first aid if you're qualified and it is safe to do so. I've seen punch ups escalate into much more serious incidents just because Joe citizen designed he was up for some law enforcement. Had a little kid trampled and hurt because citizen hank thought he could cleanly handle a smelly little meth-head in a shopping aisle. All the meth-head was doing was causing a public nuisance and verbalizing. The 'concerned citizen' turned a sad social exhibition into a child's medical emergency instead of just informing the owners so they could deal with it.

If you need a citizens militia or vigilantism then you city has serious problems that could better be addressed with mass political action. Like for example campaigning to...FUND the police.
#15178936
@Godstud

Your post had me rolling with laughter! That was hilarious! I think if I were the cops having to respond to that situation, I would just let them fight it out till they were all too tired to fight and then arrest them. That way they would be too tired to resist arrest.

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