[Potemkin]

What do you want to be walked through? I said it in unequivocal terminology and let me say it again for you: In an of itself, there is nothing immoral about slavery. As a matter of fact let's be accurate and honest. You'd rather have me banned here than to be academically honest, so WTH. It's your board.

Although God liberated the Israelites from slavery in Egypt, slavery is not universally prohibited in the Bible. Slavery was permissible in certain situations, so long as slaves were regarded as full members of the community (Gen. 17:12), received the same rest periods and holidays as non-slaves (Exod. 23:12; Deut. 5:14-15, 12:12), and were treated humanely (Exod. 21:7, 26-27). But, what about Black slaves?

America was founded on Christian principles, so we had a different kind of situation. Since we were not founded as a theocracy and not everybody was a practicing Christian, you found a wide range of views regarding slaves. Unlike the civilizations of places like China or people living in the Middle East, the Black people did not have what one would consider a modern civilization for the times. Black people sold their brethren into slavery and, honestly, many Whites viewed the Black people as a pre-Adamic being that was destined to be a servant race. OTOH, despite the laws that came from Great Britain AND kept intact by some of the colonists, a majority of slave owners treated slaves in accordance with the laws of the Bible with regard to owning slaves.

At the end of the day, the Black people who were slaves in the United States got a far better deal than they would have gotten from their Black brethren captors, had they not been sold into slavery. Additionally, once the slaves arrived in America, slave buyers preferred to buy the Black people in family lots. Families were happier and more productive. Facts bear out that Black slaves ate better, dressed better, had better medical care, better housing, and even got paid more than their White skin, blue collar counterparts that were indentured slaves. Since slavery is not condemned (for most) I'm not going to pretend to voice an objective opinion either way.

I think that you read the sermon "A Model of Christian Charity" by John Winthrop (IIRC you quoted from it earlier). If not, you can always access and read it. A significant number of colonists believed in the same things that Winthrop did. They believed Whites were the Israelites and are the chosen of God; they believed this land to be the new Jerusalem; they believed that Israelites are NOT to be held in bondage... not to each other and not slaves or property of the government. They fought a war on that premise. Those that came after people like Winthrop had a more secular belief about the Bible and by the time of Jefferson, they were willing to extend unalienable Rights to Black people. Having unalienable Rights, however, does not entitle one to become a citizen nor to vote in elections. Citizenship and voting are privileges that are created by the government and extended to people by way of PRIVILEGE, not Right.

The idea that Whites are biblical Israel and this is the New Jerusalem led to the first immigration law being put into place only mere weeks after the ratification of the Constitution of the United States. The first immigration law limited citizenship to "free white persons." In the Preamble to the Constitution, it reads (in part): "provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity..."

The terminology "ourselves and our Posterity" referred to members of the White race. That was the holding by Chief Justice Roger Taney in Dred Scott v. Sanford (see https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/60/393)

The truth outraged the multiculturalists so much that they illegally ratified the 14th Amendment through the Republicans. Interestingly, Black people bitch about slavery, but turned their backs on the Republican Party and today belong to the Democrats. The Democrats were the ones that wanted segregation and White supremacy. Slavery had ended, so now, the globalists conned the multiculturalists into the idea that Blacks should be citizens. The real motivation behind the passage of the 14th Amendment was to repeal the Bill of Rights (which is a discussion for a different thread), but now we are to have forced equality.

This is where you don't need to try and blow smoke up my ass. Democrats have always been about supremacy and control; slavery and the government ownership of human beings. And where do you find the bulk of the Black race today? They're Democrats! They want to reign supreme and, consequently, they have removed the White man's flags, statues, monuments, memorials, and plaques. They are going to take the White man's picture off our currency and they are replacing our holidays with racially charged holidays aimed at instilling a false guilt complex into Whites and erasing every vestige of the White peoples culture and heritage. They even advocate getting rid of our American flag:

https://americascitizenpress.com/this-s ... ican-flag/

What the multiculturalists want is a White free world. What we see today is a war of genocide because we will not be able to retain our culture, heritage, and history while moving forward. My view is, if we're going to live in the past, let's live in the past. How about reparations MY family should be getting for being held into bondage by (supposedly) Black people for over 400 years, who claim to be the original Egyptians? Be sensible. Over 90 percent of the White people of today are NOT the same people as the colonists. Immigration and inter-racial marriage have polluted the gene pool so that most Whites you have are not the same people that had any influence in slavery. The overwhelming majority of the White people in the United States can trace their history back to White enslavement. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but Black people simply do not have a monopoly on human suffering. But, far more important, when given the privilege of voting, the majority of the Black people vote FOR human enslavement. Of course, they are owned by a government god that gives them the illusion that they had they voted for their leaders. It is what it is and you can't change it. You can keep up the filibuster until Hell freezes over, but I can tell you what it is like to be a slave and I can tell you what it's like to be free. And, in America, you can be choose to be free and you can make the life you want. But, what a lot of people what they want is to be dominated and owned by government. It's just not for me.

[ingliz]

America was founded on Christian principles

Doubtful as the New Testament was largely ignored, except in the negative sense of pointing out that nowhere did Jesus condemn slavery.
.

destined to be a servant race

So, you don't deny the biblical basis for instituting racialized slavery in the US is down to a drunken pedophile's curse?

[Heisenberg]

I can't believe this thread has lasted 12 pages.

I will say, however, that I am not even a little bit surprised that we have gone from lachrymose pleas to care about the "Irish slaves" a few pages back, to claims that black people were "destined to be a servant race" and slaves in the Americas "got a far better deal than they would have gotten from their black brethren captors".

[Tainari88]

Doubtful as the New Testament was largely ignored, except in the negative sense of pointing out that nowhere did Jesus condemn slavery.


So, you don't deny the biblical basis for instituting racialized slavery in the US is down to a drunken pedophile's curse?

That is all @The Resister can handle Ingliz. If he had to argue with any of the ones making valid points like @ckaihatsu , @QatzelOk @Potemkin , he would have to admit he just is an ignorant racist and he has pride in his ignorance.

The reality is that slavery is about getting human labor that no other race or species can do but other humans for free. Not paying them. Capitalism is a step above slavery for the simple reason that feudal people did not have to pay the slave. They had to pay the bank the loans they got out from the bank to purchase the slave. Then when they got in financial trouble they had to loan out the slave or sell them. They were property plain and simple. The worker has no property really, they just have their labor to sell, and capitalism's advantages over slavery is that the worker trades their labor for pay. The worker negotiates with the owners of property or production for a wage. Hopefully a living one. A form of slavery exists in capitalism today. Right now in the USA.

In many states including Alabama, you can pay servers at restaurants $2.13 cents an hour. When they get their checks it all went to taxes. The servers live dependent on tips. The tips are often not enough to live on. The restaurant association has lobbyists that prevent living wages. The origin of the tip was from Europe that did have minimum wages for servers and encouraged tipping as a bonus. A supplement to encourage higher customer service performance. The restaurant industry in the USA came up with a scheme where they hired black women newly freed from the American Civil War to not be paid a minimum wage and only be allowed tips to enrich the restaurant owners. Mostly white men came from slave-owning families. That is American history. The same system exists today.

Capitalism is a system above slavery because at least the worker has the right to sever ties with his or her employer and negotiate with another. They are not property. They are renters of their labor. But if wages remain stagnant or not rising for many many years like is the case now? The old tactics of divide and conquer are implemented again. Anything to keep workers uniting for better wages and rights. Like it happened in Bacon's Rebellion. Racism is an excuse to not pay people well and have people who are wealthy and in better positions of power to keep more of the surplus-value of all that efficient productivity. It is old and tired by now the excuse for injustice.

The Reister can jump up and down about the bible, and white people being the victims, or other blacks in Africa were doing it. And Uncle Tom's Cabin of happy slaves and good slave masters, and how everyone was in agreement and so on. The bottom line is that the reason for slavery was the need to control other human beings' ability to produce a needed resource and one class of humans reaping the rewards and denying the most productive humans any real benefit of working and the fruits of their own labor. The New Testament is so hard to do for the racist Christians. It makes their lives difficult to live. They can't stop believing in Satan's economic system. Capitalism. They got to be fake Christians wearing hoods. It is the only way they can be able to feel powerful. In their morally bankrupt thoughts.

If The Resister wants to lie to himself about what it is about. Let him. It won't change the fact that the only way Black people got a better deal was by getting organized and fighting the system for a better life. Hard. And the white people who think the Blacks got somewhere in the USA by waiting for the white greedy liars to give them something they weren't willing to give them without a massive fight? Are living in denial. They will find out how foolish they are when they are also oppressed by the same group the Black people were all these years. Because the bottom line for the capitalist is got to get me some massive free or inexpensive labor. I don't care if it is white, black, Latino, Chinese, Indian...the important thing I get rich off of it. Bottom line. And to hell with patriotic bullshit and nationalism and white power. Show me the MONEY!!

White people getting exploited. By the same capitalists as the ones who were looking for cheap labor pulling up stakes to go and invest in the PRC. They don't care where the cheapness is coming from. The bottom line again is SHOW ME THE MONEY.

If you don't like it, Resister? Then dump the capitalism. If you can't? You have to accept the loss of white power. Because the Capitalist people don't care about it.

[ingliz]

America was founded on Christian principles

You wouldn't know it when you quote only Old Testament verses.

"Gen. 17:12... Exod. 23:12; Deut. 5:14-15, 12:12.. Exod. 21:7, 26-27."

[ckaihatsu]

I think you are out of touch with reality. I am at a disadvantage here as I've been warned by the board's owner where NOT to go in these discussions. Suffice it to say, I have personally appeared opposite the late Hosea Williams, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and several others on television and radio arguing over racial subject matter. I know full well what they think.

The liberals are going to milk the slavery narrative for all the mileage they can get out of it. My purpose on this thread was to let you know, others have suffered due to slavery, but got back up and rose above it. Look, I'm not here to blow smoke up anybody's ass. Every honest White person knows exactly WHY America came into being. There is not one, single, solitary, thing one can say about Whites that they cannot honestly and logically defend from the Bible. The more dishonest ones try to sugarcoat it and if I told you the harsh, hard core truth, it would be the last post I made here.

I see no point in dancing around with you. You are going to support a dishonest narrative because it works. We both know you don't give a shit about the truth and I'm just here, defending what I've already stated. If we were on a level playing field, this would be a different discussion. Having gone as far as one can, we are out of stuff to discuss. You can't stay on topic because the facts don't support your case so you have to move into subject matter that isn't allowed to be discussed on over 98 percent of social media.

Nice rant. I thought you wanted to talk about the racist wealth distribution in this country.

[Tainari88]

Nice rant. I thought you wanted to talk about the racist wealth distribution in this country.

He wants to talk about how the Democrats made white people cry. How the Democrats are liars. How the Democrats ruined America. How the Democrats don't play by the rules. He fails to see the Democrats love Capitalism. That escapes him.

[QatzelOk]

"the typical White family has eight times the wealth of the typical Black family and five times the wealth of the typical Hispanic family."

But let's not forget the way these stats are skewed by poor methodology.

First of all, the top 1% has a huge chunk of money, as does the next 20%. They are practically all white - but this is a very exclusive club. The vast majority of light-skinned people will never have this kind of cash. So the very existence of obscenely rich white people - like Jeff Bezos - skews the stats for white people in a way that is meaningless for most of them.

White trailer-dwelling poor-whites can not *learn* to feel guilty because a few trillionaires are light-skinned. It's not an open club for anyone.

Likewise, the stats regarding how "poor" the *bottom 40%" are - needs to be mitigated by the fact that this category includes babies, toddlers, unemployed children, and people who claim to have no income (but work underground). This skews this category somewhat.

I can't believe this thread has lasted 12 pages.

Oh really.

Well, my mother was Irish, and I intend to keep posting here until Ireland is finally restored to her place in the family of nations - an Irish-speaking independent nation that continues to work with other nations as an independent and primarily Irish entity.

*We were once slaves* narratives can make this happen.

[Heisenberg]

Oh really.

Well, my mother was Irish, and I intend to keep posting here until Ireland is finally restored to her place in the family of nations - an Irish-speaking independent nation that continues to work with other nations as an independent and primarily Irish entity.

*We were once slaves* narratives can make this happen.

I thought you were concerned with the truth, not pushing a narrative.

And frankly, no, lying about the history of "Irish slavery" will not advance the cause of Irish reunification. It might make people resent the Irish-Americans for being completely full of shit, though.

[ingliz]

these stats are skewed by poor methodology

"In the 2019 survey, White families have the highest level of both median and mean family wealth: $188,200 and $983,400, respectively (Figure 1). Black and Hispanic families have considerably less wealth than White families. Black families' median and mean wealth is less than 15 percent that of White families, at $24,100 and $142,500, respectively. Hispanic families' median and mean wealth is $36,100 and $165,500, respectively. Other families—a diverse group that includes those identifying as Asian, American Indian, Alaska Native, Native Hawaiian, Pacific Islander, other race, and all respondents reporting more than one racial identification—have lower wealth than White families but higher wealth than Black and Hispanic families. The same patterns of inequality in the distribution of wealth across all families are also evident within race/ethnicity groups; for each of the four race/ethnicity groups, the mean is substantially higher than the median, reflecting the concentration of wealth at the top of the wealth distribution for each group."

I thought you [QatzelOk] were concerned with the truth, not pushing a narrative.

Why would you think that?

[ckaihatsu]

He wants to talk about how the Democrats made white people cry. How the Democrats are liars. How the Democrats ruined America. How the Democrats don't play by the rules. He fails to see the Democrats love Capitalism. That escapes him.

"I was trying to play capitalist soccer, and they *moved the goalposts* -- !"


= )

[ckaihatsu]

"Don't call me bro, bro."


x D

[QatzelOk]

I thought you were concerned with the truth, not pushing a narrative.

There isn't much truth in this thread. Just narratives that have been built out of skewed statistics.

...lying about the history of "Irish slavery" will not advance the cause of Irish reunification

In order to accuse someone of lying, one must know the truth oneself. Not just statistics that have been broken down by race and ethnicity.

During COVID, the USA kept reporting deaths and cases in three categories: White, Black, and Latino (non-black). That means that if you're a black, you don't get to be Latino.

I kept imagining if Québec did this and published its stats the same way, divided by race.
It would be: French, English, Jewish (non-French)

Likewise, rather than working towards equality, USA citizens are happy to cite statistics that mean next to nothing when a handful of white guys own more than the entire continent of Africa combined with Australia. The kind of skewing that Jeff Bezos does... makes these numbers meaningless.

I mean, would a satisfactory "equality" be created in one single black female receives a trillion dollars?
(This would still leave everyone else exactly where they are now.)

[ingliz]

held into bondage... for over 400 years

A strange choice of ethnicity for a white supremacist.

The Alt-Right makes it clear that Jews are not included in their vision of a perfect white ethnostate. For them, Jews are impure— a faux-white race that has tainted America.

Surely it would be safer if you move in those circles to dump that label and use what I must assume is your racially ambiguous appearance to live as 'passing white' in your New Jerusalem.

[The Resister]

Doubtful as the New Testament was largely ignored, except in the negative sense of pointing out that nowhere did Jesus condemn slavery.
.

So, you don't deny the biblical basis for instituting racialized slavery in the US is down to a drunken pedophile's curse?

What kind of B.S. question is that? Your crap isn't worth responding to.

[The Resister]

I can't believe this thread has lasted 12 pages.

I will say, however, that I am not even a little bit surprised that we have gone from lachrymose pleas to care about the "Irish slaves" a few pages back, to claims that black people were "destined to be a servant race" and slaves in the Americas "got a far better deal than they would have gotten from their black brethren captors".

Are you offended by the truth? I have been wanting out of this discussion for a long time. The current posts don't have spit to do with the OP, but the communists cannot seem to comprehend that. They think I'm an easy target for their stereotyping, but they don't realize they're getting their collective asses handed to them. The fact that they couldn't discuss the OP was good enough for me. Then they resorted to name calling, bullying, and stereotyping. They lost any chance at winning a pretend debate and nuked their own objections by not stipulating to the facts.

[ckaihatsu]

Are you offended by the truth? I have been wanting out of this discussion for a long time. The current posts don't have spit to do with the OP, but the communists cannot seem to comprehend that. They think I'm an easy target for their stereotyping, but they don't realize they're getting their collective asses handed to them. The fact that they couldn't discuss the OP was good enough for me. Then they resorted to name calling, bullying, and stereotyping. They lost any chance at winning a pretend debate and nuked their own objections by not stipulating to the facts.

You're far from being the 'thread historian' here, and your historical claims about purported Irish slavery are overblown. But your ranting skills are second-to-none. Congrats.

[The Resister]

You wouldn't know it when you quote only Old Testament verses.

"Gen. 17:12... Exod. 23:12; Deut. 5:14-15, 12:12.. Exod. 21:7, 26-27."

What does quoting Old Testament verses relative to the fact that America was founded on Christian principles? Even mainstream disagrees with you:

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/ar ... ted-states

I do like the way mainstream deflects too... "almost never" in the article. You're off point again, but that's because you have no point on the subject in the OP.

[The Resister]

He wants to talk about how the Democrats made white people cry. How the Democrats are liars. How the Democrats ruined America. How the Democrats don't play by the rules. He fails to see the Democrats love Capitalism. That escapes him.

Nothing escapes me. I'm not a capitalist. I believe in free market enterprise, but I am not a capitalist. If you would try to quit worrying about putting me into some existing group, you might get a real conversation. Democrats have ruined America. They were the ones that wanted slavery and today the people that flock to that party want a government god to hold their hand and be their slave master. Don't feel bad while you're trying to project and you know it's wrong.

[The Resister]

A strange choice of ethnicity for a white supremacist.

The Alt-Right makes it clear that Jews are not included in their vision of a perfect white ethnostate. For them, Jews are impure— a faux-white race that has tainted America.

Surely it would be safer if you move in those circles to dump that label and use what I must assume is your racially ambiguous appearance to live as 'passing white' in your New Jerusalem.

Your narrative is failing you. The fact that you would call me a white supremacist is indicative of a man that is gutless to the core. It shows that you have a low IQ and prefer confrontation over honest dialogue. If it didn't dawn on you yet, I don't give a rat's ass what the alt-right, KKK, or anybody else thinks. I don't care what they think about me; I don't care about they think about this issue and that you don't understand that only shows that what you are is something the rules here won't allow me to say, but you know what it is.