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Political issues in the People's Republic of China.

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#15183424
Asylum seekers aren't always granted asylum, or seeking it for justifiable reasons either. :lol:

Image

You want to drop graphs without context, drop away. All these graphs are suggesting are that ease of global travel is increasing, as is the desire to immigrate. The increase in asylum seeking may be a response to tougher immigration laws in the post-2010s right shift era and people taking advantage of looser refugee standards, as well, could it not?
#15183426
Fasces wrote:Asylum seekers aren't always granted asylum, or seeking it for justifiable reasons either. :lol:

Image

You want to drop graphs without context, drop away.


Okay, yes they are not always granted asylum but so what?

We are talking about the numbers of Asylum Seekers here and acceptance of those asylum seekers is a different subject altogether. Increased 8 fold or more since XI took power. And by asylum seeker I obviously mean a person who filled in an application for asylum and so on... NOT PASSENGERS, NOT EXPATS, NO TRAVELERS but real life people who probably fled China and applied for protection in another state for one reason or another.
#15183427
JohnRawls wrote:We are talking about the numbers of Asylum Seekers here and acceptance of those asylum seekers is a different subject altogether. Increased 8 fold or more since XI took power. And by asylum seeker I obviously mean a person who filled in an application for asylum and so on... NOT PASSENGERS, NOT EXPATS, NO TRAVELERS but real life people who probably fled China and applied for protection in another state for one reason or another.


You want to drop graphs without context, drop away. It's a transparent attempt to make the user make an argument on your behalf, so you don't have to defend it.

All these graphs are suggesting are that ease of global travel is increasing, as is the desire to immigrate. This appears to be happening at similar proportions regardless of the country - the UK and USA are seeing proportionally similar levels of people leaving the country for long-term periods.

The increase in asylum seeking specifically may equally be a response to tougher immigration laws in the post-2010s right shift era and people taking advantage of looser refugee standards, could it not?

It could be due to a desire to escape Xi Jinping as well.

It could be to making asylum easier for Chinese (and Taiwanese, Macuan, and Hong Konger groups) to receive, as opposed to other mechanisms for long-term immigration.

It might even be a reflection of growing income in China allowing more people to afford the plane ticket an act on pre-existing desires. Maybe in 2000, 100 people wanted to emigrate, but only 10 could afford it, and in 2020, 50 people wanted to emigrate, and 20 could afford it.

God knows you provided no context or argument, not explicitly, so we can only really guess, can't we?
#15183431
Fasces wrote:You want to drop graphs without context, drop away. It's a transparent attempt to make the user make an argument on your behalf, so you don't have to defend it.

All these graphs are suggesting are that ease of global travel is increasing, as is the desire to immigrate. This appears to be happening at similar proportions regardless of the country - the UK and USA are seeing proportionally similar levels of people leaving the country for long-term periods.

The increase in asylum seeking specifically may equally be a response to tougher immigration laws in the post-2010s right shift era and people taking advantage of looser refugee standards, could it not? It could be due to a desire to escape Xi Jinping as well. It could be to making asylum easier for Chinese (and Taiwanese, Macuan, and Hong Konger groups) to receive, as opposed to other mechanisms for long-term immigration. It might even be a reflection of growing income in China allowing more people to afford the plane ticket an act on pre-existing desires.

God knows you provided no context or argument, not explicitly, so we can only really guess, can't we?


Listen, I am not sure what your interpretation of the process is but let me alleviate some of your "misconceptions":

1) Asylum seeking doesn't mean that the nation is getting depopulated or people are leaving in mass. This usually happens only in famine or war torn countries. The average country who is stable and can feed its people is fine in this regard even if they have asylum seekers.
2) There are clear correlations between leaders taking power and number of asylum seekers increasing through out history. The more repressive the regime becomes, the more asilum seekers you get. This is politics/social economics 101 of sorts.
3) Asylum seekers are not your regular immigrants and follow a specific process also their reasons can be different. China is not a country where people leave just cause and the biggest reason is political. (Aka repressions)
#15183436
JohnRawls wrote:1) Asylum seeking doesn't mean that the nation is getting depopulated or people are leaving in mass. This usually happens only in famine or war torn countries. The average country who is stable and can feed its people is fine in this regard even if they have asylum seekers.


Never said otherwise, though dropping a graph without comment beyond "look at the increase after 2015" is definitely implying some.

JohnRawls wrote:2) There are clear correlations between leaders taking power and number of asylum seekers increasing through out history. The more repressive the regime becomes, the more asilum seekers you get. This is politics/social economics 101 of sorts.


At least now you're explicitly assigning a cause without proving the cause.

JohnRawls wrote:3) Asylum seekers are not your regular immigrants and follow a specific process also their reasons can be different. China is not a country where people leave just cause and the biggest reason is political. (Aka repressions)


Or social - my girl wants to leave because of attitudes she agrees with the CCP about (treatment of women) but that society lags behind in. Or material - my girlfriend's parents have had her apply for European visa and US visa because I have both passports to try to maximize chance of her being able to work in the developed world and send money back. Honestly, if her father believed she had half a chance to get it by concocting some story and applying for asylum, he'd tell her to do it in a heartbeat: and he's a card-carrying member of the CCP. :lol:

I'm not disputing your numbers Rawls, I'm making fun of you being too cowardly to say what you mean.
#15183438
Fasces wrote:Never said otherwise, though dropping a graph without comment beyond "look at the increase after 2015" is definitely implying some.



At least now you're explicitly assigning a cause without proving the cause.



Or social - my girl wants to leave because of attitudes she agrees with the CCP about (treatment of women) but that society lags behind in. Or material - my girlfriend's parents have had her apply for European visa and US visa because I have both passports to try to maximize chance of her being able to work in the developed world and send money back. Honestly, if her father believed she had half a chance to get it by concocting some story and applying for asylum, he'd tell her to do it in a heartbeat: and he's a card-carrying member of the CCP. :lol:

I'm not disputing your numbers Rawls, I'm making fun of you being too cowardly to say what you mean.


Too cowardly of what? I literally typed this here and in several topics that after Xi came to power the regime became more repressive. The number of asylum seekers proves this.

Now you are saying that Xi is not the cause, then show what could be another reason for 8x in asylum seekers if economically China is okay and is improving right now. There can't be a 8x jump for no reason that is just not something that happens out of the blue? You are in "what about thism" right now.
#15183500
When people seek asylum they're required to provide a reason. Why not look those up instead of speculating?
#15183526
AFAIK wrote:When people seek asylum they're required to provide a reason. Why not look those up instead of speculating?


Asylum seeker definition:

a person who has left their home country as a political refugee and is seeking asylum in another.
"only asylum seekers who are granted refugee status are allowed to work in the country"


The main analysis pre-2015 was done is the latest that I could find and there were 2 main reasons:
1) One child policy
2) POlitical or religious prosecution.

Now that the one child policy is scrapped that leaves only the other option. If I could find anything relevant for 2020 or 2021 then I would, otherwise I don't really have the info that is easily locatable.
#15183584
Chinese people can fly to Australia and then seek asylum whereas previously they had to either get a visa in advance or travel to Indonesia and get on a boat. Perhaps asylum numbers are up because the barrier to entry is down.
#15183619
AFAIK wrote:Chinese people can fly to Australia and then seek asylum whereas previously they had to either get a visa in advance or travel to Indonesia and get on a boat. Perhaps asylum numbers are up because the barrier to entry is down.


If China is a good country the number should not go up even with the ease up of entry in other nations.
#15183685
People from all over seek asylum for different reasons. it doesn't mean the country is terrible, although that is what is implied.

A growing source of Canadian asylum-seekers: US citizens whose parents were born elsewhere
https://theconversation.com/a-growing-s ... ere-118249


even so....

U.S.-Canada Asylum Treaty Unconstitutional, Judge Finds, Citing 'Cruel' U.S. Behavior
In a harsh rebuke of America's treatment of refugees, a Canadian judge has ruled that an asylum treaty with the U.S. violates Canada's own charter of human rights, because it returns asylum-seekers to the U.S., where they are "immediately and automatically imprisoned" by U.S. authorities, often under inhumane conditions.

Refugees are returned to the U.S. "based on the understanding that they will have access to a fair refugee determination process," McDonald wrote. "However, the evidence demonstrates that the immediate consequence to ineligible STCA claimants is that they will be imprisoned solely for having attempted to make a refugee claim in Canada."

https://www.npr.org/2020/07/23/89485969 ... s-behavior

This was a year ago(Trump administration), but I am sure it's been fixed. ;)

(I am aware that it is a "Whataboutism". I am just making a point, and you don't have to agree with it. Everyone's making comparisons, after all.)
#15183711
America is such an awful country that it's citizens would rather colonise space then live within 1000 miles of one of its military bases.
#15183780
Godstud wrote:People from all over seek asylum for different reasons. it doesn't mean the country is terrible, although that is what is implied.

A growing source of Canadian asylum-seekers: US citizens whose parents were born elsewhere
https://theconversation.com/a-growing-s ... ere-118249


642? How does that compare to 100k from China? :eh:

Godstud wrote:(I am aware that it is a "Whataboutism". I am just making a point, and you don't have to agree with it. Everyone's making comparisons, after all.)


No political scientist would consider the US to be role model, but on Pofo the usual suspects always scream EVIL AMERICA IS BAD TOO!! when China is being criticized.

Fucking retarded.
#15183821
The fundamental problem with that graph, one still not responded to, is that is making an argument, or at least, the Economist piece that graph was ripped from is making an argument.

"Xi Jinping is the reason that asylum seekers in China have increased since 2015."

This argument is flawed, logically. The Economist piece and the posters in this thread have provided no evidence for that argument whatsoever.

1. Trends have risen similarly globally, regardless of origin nation - overlaying asylum applications shows similar trends in all countries, including the USA, UK, and Canada. While numbers are significantly less (and they always will be when discussing populations as varied as China vs Canada) they follow the same trend.

2. It does not account for the motivations of asylum seekers. One person here said "One child policy", which hasn't been policy in China since 2015/16 when the rise began.

3. It does not account for "those who wishes to seek asylum before, but couldn't". That number may very well have gone done. If 1,000,000 people wanted to seek asylum in 2015, and only 60,000 succeeded, then the fact that 100,000 succeeded in 2020, when only 400,000 people sought asylum status, would show the same increase, but mean something very different.

I showed a similar graph that shows more Chinese are leaving, and then returning, in record numbers as well. Is that Xi Jinping's doing as well? :lol:
#15183841
Fasces wrote:The fundamental problem with that graph, one still not responded to, is that is making an argument, or at least, the Economist piece that graph was ripped from is making an argument.

"Xi Jinping is the reason that asylum seekers in China have increased since 2015."

This argument is flawed, logically. The Economist piece and the posters in this thread have provided no evidence for that argument whatsoever.

1. Trends have risen similarly globally, regardless of origin nation - overlaying asylum applications shows similar trends in all countries, including the USA, UK, and Canada. While numbers are significantly less (and they always will be when discussing populations as varied as China vs Canada) they follow the same trend.

2. It does not account for the motivations of asylum seekers. One person here said "One child policy", which hasn't been policy in China since 2015/16 when the rise began.

3. It does not account for "those who wishes to seek asylum before, but couldn't". That number may very well have gone done. If 1,000,000 people wanted to seek asylum in 2015, and only 60,000 succeeded, then the fact that 100,000 succeeded in 2020, when only 400,000 people sought asylum status, would show the same increase, but mean something very different.

I showed a similar graph that shows more Chinese are leaving, and then returning, in record numbers as well. Is that Xi Jinping's doing as well? :lol:


1) One child policy has been effectively scraped.

2) The Global trend that you are talking about is conflicts and famine. There are no famines or conflicts on the territory of China so please, stop trying to outright distract or lie about the subject. :eek:

3) "Those who wishes to seek asylum before" is not a very good argument you know. So what did push them over the top as of Xi coming to full power?

Mental gymnastics much?
#15183842
JohnRawls wrote:1) One child policy has been effectively scraped.

2) The Global trend that you are talking about is conflicts and famine. There are no famines or conflicts on the territory of China so please, stop trying to outright distract or lie about the subject. :eek:

3) "Those who wishes to seek asylum before" is not a very good argument you know. So what did push them over the top as of Xi coming to full power?

Mental gymnastics much?


1) Then why cite it at a reason to explain asylum?

2) The global trend includes UK, USA, and Canada. Stop dodging the issue.

3) It could be anything from ease of access to foreign countries due to reduced barriers, increased finances to back such a move, Hong Kongers, and so on. You're the one making the argument its Xi, maybe make an argument and stop relying on others to disprove context-less shitposts.

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