[wat0n]

The law is an outcome of the political system, but no they are obviously not the same thing. And yes, lawyers may indeed partake in activism to advance their clients' interests as the US is an adversarial system, but that doesn't mean judges have to do that as well nor does it mean the law itself should do the same.

Ultimately, what CRT proponents are doing is attempting to undermine the 14th Amendment and much of the civil rights movement, which is sad from a historical perspective but not surprising.

[Gardener]

The wealth gap.

Nobody has ever presented ANY peer-reviewed research proving that the 'wealth gap' is the result of "institutional racism". The CRH crowd believe it to be true as an article of faith, but without evidence.

Unequal access to quality education.

Same answer as 'the wealth gap'. There is no research or evidence to prove that this arises from racism.

The current wave of voting restrictions.

There ARE no voting restrictions based on race.

Please provide a quote of this person explaining their views. Thanks.

This is an extract from an article in The Guardian, a left-leaning newspaper in the UK.

...There is no middle ground, he says. We either support systems and policies that promote racial inequality – with enthusiasm, or by our own passivity – or we actively fight them. “So, the term ‘not racist’ not only has no meaning, but it also connotes that there is this sort of in-between safe space sideline that a person can be on, when there is no neutrality,” he explains. “We’re either all being racist or anti-racist.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... not-enough

So there we have it. If you do not spend all your time actively fighting against Burglars and Rapists, then YOU are all burglars and rapists yourself !

[Drlee]

Can I just bounce in to say that there is, and I have made, what I think to be a good argument against teaching this theory in secondary school? And so, arguments about whether there is institutional racism in the USA (there of course is) are not relevant to that argument.

[Gardener]

Eh, kind of. What CRT describes is the difference between the idealism of racism and the realism of racism. The racist ideal can be largely stamped out of laws, and largely has in the USA, without addressing the real outcome.

Indeed Fasces.. indeed. Perhaps because the 'outcome' was not produced by racism ? Hence removing racism from the laws would - indeed - have no effect on the outcome ?

In education, this is why CRT proponents are often against measures like standardized testing. Of course testing itself isn't racist; yet the increased resources available to non-black and more affluent communities (which, unfortunately in the US, these terms are often synonymous) for private tutoring, extra study time, more quality study time, better libraries, etc etc that are left over from eras where laws were less neutral still remains.

Sounds like a resource issue, not a race issue, to me ?

[Pants-of-dog]

Nobody has ever presented ANY peer-reviewed research proving that the 'wealth gap' is the result of "institutional racism". The CRH crowd believe it to be true as an article of faith, but without evidence.

Please provide evidence that no one has ever presented evidence linking the wealth gap to institutional racism.

Specifically, explain how the studies showing how redlining have helped create the wealth gap are not evidence.

Same answer as 'the wealth gap'. There is no research or evidence to prove that this arises from racism.

Please provide evidence that no one has ever presented evidence linking access to education to institutional racism.

Specifically, explain how the studies showing how redlining have helped limit educational opportunities are not evidence.

There ARE no voting restrictions based on race.

Please provide evidence for this claim.

This is an extract from an article in The Guardian, a left-leaning newspaper in the UK.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... not-enough

So there we have it. If you do not spend all your time actively fighting against Burglars and Rapists, then YOU are all burglars and rapists yourself !

Since we can read what this person actually said, we know your comparison is hogwash

Thank you for the quote.

[SpecialOlympian]

Sounds like a resource issue, not a race issue, to me ?

What if there existed a country that purposely denied resources based on race for 150+ years?

[Rugoz]

The poor white kid from rural Wyoming never fears for his life when stopped by cops while a black rich US senator would.

According to this study

https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/wp ... llings.pdf

the poorest 20% of whites are more likely to be killed by the police than the wealthiest 40% of blacks.

[Drlee]

the poorest 20% of whites are more likely to be killed by the police than the wealthiest 40% of blacks.

Oh good grief. Another of those boutique statistics designed to make some obscure and irrelevant point.

[Rugoz]

Oh good grief. Another of those boutique statistics designed to make some obscure and irrelevant point.

Certainly not irrelevant to what PoD said.

[wat0n]

According to this study

https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/wp ... llings.pdf

the poorest 20% of whites are more likely to be killed by the police than the wealthiest 40% of blacks.

Not exactly. If I read that paper correctly, the income measure used is Census tract income quintile.

That means that a non-Hispanic white living in a Census tract in the poorest 20% is more likely to be killed by police than a black living in one of the wealthiest 40% of Census tracts. It does not have data on individual income. What it does suggest is that there is a correlation between aggregate Census tract-level income, racial composition and whatever unobserved Census tract-level risk factors that correlate with more Census tract-level police killings (e.g. crime) or police killings themselves, and that the income part is fairly strong.

I found the result more interesting for Hispanics vs whites, once some of the US-Mexico border Census tracts are removed (because they may reflect cases of Border Police killings which could conceivably affect illegal immigrants or human traffickers) Hispanics living in the lower income Census tracts are less likely to be killed than non-Hispanic whites who live in the same tracts. I'd like to see if this holds including those border Census tracts though.

OTOH, I recall that's exactly the sort of measure @Pants-of-dog likes in his papers (census tract, not individual level) when he finds a positive correlation at the Census tract level between the percentage of black population and something bad that can be blamed on government policy/services to make his case. So I am assuming he'll take this result as given.

[late]

OTOH, I recall that's exactly the sort of measure @Pants-of-dog likes in his papers (census tract, not individual level) when he finds a positive correlation at the Census tract level between the percentage of black population and something bad that can be blamed on government policy/services to make his case. So I am assuming he'll take this result as given.

You guys don't need to reinvent the wheel...

There are hundreds of studies, and brace yourself cause it's a shocker, you already know what they found.

[Rugoz]

Not exactly. If I read that paper correctly, the income measure used is Census tract income quintile.

That means that a non-Hispanic white living in a Census tract in the poorest 20% is more likely to be killed by police than a black living in one of the wealthiest 40% of Census tracts. It does not have data on individual income. What it does suggest is that there is a correlation between aggregate Census tract-level income, racial composition and whatever unobserved Census tract-level risk factors that correlate with more Census tract-level police killings (e.g. crime) or police killings themselves, and that the income part is fairly strong.

Fair enough, but if anything the income effect is even stronger.

[Gardener]

Please provide evidence that no one has ever presented evidence linking the wealth gap to institutional racism.

Specifically, explain how the studies showing how redlining have helped create the wealth gap are not evidence.

I think I will leave it to the members of this forum to judge how RIDICULOUS your statements have become.

"Present evidence that no one has ever presented evidence... "

Oh PLEASE. Multiple decades of research into this theorem have failed to produce any peer-reviewed, credible, evidence. And you ask ME that question ?
You have degenerated into absurdity.

Which - to be fair - is the position that Critical Race Hypothesists STARTED from. Which is why - at an early stage - they rejected the concept of the Scientific Method. Because they knew their 'theories' couldn't stand in the face of rigorous analysis.

CRH is a RELIGION - or perhaps a cult - .. not a scientific theory. Much like it's progenitor - Marxist social 'theory'. You cannot find a SINGLE example of where THAT theory has been applied, and improved the lot of the poor unfortunate people who suffered under it. Not ONE ! The 'theory' is fundamentally flawed. The consequences of the people who suffered under its implementation was HORRIBLE.. and continues to be so. That is why people flee Cuba, Venezuela, and may African countries that tried it.

And thus it is with 'Critical Race Hypothesis'.


And that is all

[Pants-of-dog]

@Gardener

Since you refuse to support your argument, this is pointless. Have a good day.

@wat0n

Please do not assume to know what I think it believe. You have been consistently incorrect so far.

[Gardener]

@Gardener

Since you refuse to support your argument, this is pointless. Have a good day.

I have supported my arguments. You have failed to support yours. Probably because you can't support them.

Have a good day