The Wuhan virus—how are we doing? - Page 133 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
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#15190865
Rancid wrote:I like how conservatives advocate the for profit motive in healthcare, and then decide to not take the vaccine because of the for profit motive that they support.


A rationale that fucking fits my taste actually.

1. Whoever wants to use the service gotta pay.
2. I am to keep my money.

Win-win situation (at least a double-win for me that is!)
#15190910
@Patrickov What you are saying is Libertarian twaddle. It doesn't account for anyone else but you. nice and selfish, exactly like what @SpecialOlympian was saying.

You'd make a great 'Ugly American'.
#15190946
Igor Antunov wrote:Masssive anti-lockdown protests currently ongoing across prison island.

I don't think these inner CBD checkpoints in Melbourne (and Sydney) are gonna hold....


https://nitter.pussthecat.org/davidestc ... 5418368000


I'm proud of them. Cops deserve to be treated like the violent armed scum they are these days.

Too bad I'm working today and tomorrow.

Hilarious to see Vaccine nuts defend the police violently assaulting these people, as many of them were bitching about police brutality being out of control last year after what Chauvin did.
Last edited by colliric on 18 Sep 2021 08:17, edited 1 time in total.
#15190947
XogGyux wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QX_T9a7Y7A&t=325s
Idiocy at work. How can this happen and people dont get arrested/sue? how is this even possible?

Because FREEDUMB, that's why. Any questions?
#15190955
@colliric The protests for BLM were valid and the people who rioted were arrested.

The protests for anti-lockdown are fucking stupid, and made by stupid people, in a stupid cause. I am surprised that you are with them, as you previously were pro-lockdowns. What happened? Time to switch sides because you felt it wasn't enough freedumb for you?
#15190956
Godstud wrote:@Patrickov What you are saying is Libertarian twaddle. It doesn't account for anyone else but you. nice and selfish, exactly like what @SpecialOlympian was saying.

You'd make a great 'Ugly American'.


That being said, I do think free vaccines is right (as long as they are reliable). It's just that I find that "conservative" thought makes a lot of sense as well.

In practice the governments decides to pay. Taxpayers need to understand that under this particular situation this is actually a good use of tax money even if I am not getting one.
Last edited by Patrickov on 18 Sep 2021 11:18, edited 2 times in total.
#15190958
Patrickov wrote:That being said, I do think free vaccines is right (as long as they are reliable)
The are as reliable as vaccines can be.

The child on the right, was vaccinated against Smallpox. he still caught it, but you can see how greatly the severity was reduced.
Image
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/sm ... PQ6ZTBKHI/

Vaccines are do not make you completely immune to disease, but they can sure make the difference between life and death.


Patrickov wrote: Whoever wants to use the service gotta pay.
This is not Conservative thought. It's Libertarian.

Would you want to be filling out payment forms as your house burns down, just so the Fire Dept. would put out the fire? People do pay, through their taxes, for many services.

colliric wrote:One thing we can all agree on:
Cops suck.
I will agree with you on this one. :D
#15190960
Godstud wrote:This is not Conservative thought. It's Libertarian.

Would you want to be filling out payment forms as your house burns down, just so the Fire Dept. would put out the fire? People do pay, through their taxes, for many services.


Yes, I do think about it and commented accordingly. As I said in the previous post, I think it is actually a good use of tax money.

My choice is my choice, but the government is responsible of providing a choice in the first place. Actually this is what that "Libertarian" view should be -- someone gotta pay, to provide choice for everyone. How I am to make my choice is another matter.
#15190993
Patrickov wrote:
A rationale that fucking fits my taste actually.

1. Whoever wants to use the service gotta pay.
2. I am to keep my money.

Win-win situation (at least a double-win for me that is!)


I think you are missing the point though. This is about trust, not money.

The point is, conservatives in America claim that leaving healthcare to the free market will bring about the best result for society. Implicit in this idea is that we can trust the healthcare produced by this type of system because free market forces will keep companies honest. This idea is the corner stone of faith in free markets. That free markets naturally and always force honesty in corporations (they don't). However, many of these same conservatives site the profit motive which is the point of a free market system, as the reason the healthcare produced by the system cannot be trusted. A system they advocate. This is a clear inconsistency they fail to see.
#15191029
XogGyux wrote:First of all.. "few minutes"? Sure an experienced surgeon might be able to do a quick appendectomy in minutes, but once you start getting into anything more complex it takes hourse. A CABG takes 3-6 hours easily for instance.

Yes, but surgeons take breaks to remove their masks during long procedures. And when they can't, they experience health problems.

CDC wrote:...hypoventilation did not pose a significant risk to healthcare workers over the course of less than one hour of continuous N95 use. When HCWs are working longer hours without a break while continuously wearing an N95 FFR, blood CO2 levels may increase past the 1-hour mark, which could have a significant physiological effect on the wearer (Lim et al., 2006)*. Some of the known physiological effects of increased concentrations of CO2 include:

Headache;
Increased pressure inside the skull;
Nervous system changes (e.g., increased pain threshold, reduction in cognition – altered judgement, decreased situational awareness, difficulty coordinating sensory or cognitive, abilities and motor activity, decreased visual acuity, widespread activation of the sympathetic nervous system that can oppose the direct effects of CO2 on the heart and blood vessels);
Increased breathing frequency;
Increased “work of breathing”, which is result of breathing through a filter medium;
Cardiovascular effects (e.g., diminished cardiac contractility, vasodilation of peripheral blood vessels);
Reduced tolerance to lighter workloads.



XogGyux wrote:Do you think the surgeons are spitting? The saliva that you are talking about are respiratory droplets. These are the same droplets that we want to curtail for the general population when it comes to covid.

Droplets landing on avocados at a supermarket, is very different than droplets landing inside a dying person's open wound.


Trust me, I dislike wearing the mask. I wear it 12h at home, I hate wearing it anywhere else.

Doing something that you hate because your master told you to do it... is the proof that you are a good dog.
#15191033
QatzelOk wrote:Yes, but surgeons take breaks to remove their masks during long procedures. And when they can't, they experience health problems.
Please provide a source for this claim that doctors get health problems from wearing a mask. It sounds very MADE UP.

Dr. Anthony Cardillo, an ER specialist and CEO of Mend Urgent Care answered questions from ABC7 viewers about masks and other aspects of staying healthy during the pandemic.

Question: I've heard people say masks can cause a buildup of carbon dioxide that can be hazardous to your health. Are there verified reports of medical professionals experiencing adverse health effects from wearing masks?

No.

Cardillo said while masks can be uncomfortable, there is no evidence to suggest they are harmful to human health. And their benefits - namely reducing your chance of exposure to the coronavirus - far outweigh any discomfort, he noted.

https://abc7.com/coronavirus-covid-19-f ... r/6324689/


I am sure you can fine a FaceBook or Twitter "doctor" who will support your ridiculous view, but it's going to be only an opinion and not based on any actual evidence. What you are saying is false.

So what's your purpose behind spreading this falsehood? Belligerence? Willful ignorance?
#15191041
QatzelOk wrote:Yes, but surgeons take breaks to remove their masks during long procedures. And when they can't, they experience health problems.





Droplets landing on avocados at a supermarket, is very different than droplets landing inside a dying person's open wound.



Doing something that you hate because your master told you to do it... is the proof that you are a good dog.


Why are you such a disingenuous person?

We were talking about surgical masks, then you pull something out of your ass for N95 because somewhat somehow you think it proves your point. Since you are using the CDC as a source, then follow up the CDCs recommendations on mask-wearing. You don't get to fucking cherry-pick whatever you think makes your point more reasonable.
#15191081
Godstud wrote:Please provide a source for this claim that doctors get health problems from wearing a mask. It sounds very MADE UP.

The CDC quote is right above your post. You asked for it AFTER I provided it. :lol:

I guess you forgot to read it and are now asking for something that was already provided.

You get an F for "inability to follow a stream of information" for this.
#15191085
I read it, but what exactly are YOU reading into it, @QatzelOk? I don't think it says what you WANT it to say.
#15191088
My first post, so I hope I dont break any customs.

I am swedish myself, and Ive seen Sweden mentioned a couple of times. I guess because of our approach with few restrictions, no lockdown and virtually noone wearing masks. Ive changed my mind several times regarding if this approach, but my take today is that it was a good strategy.

As I see it the death count in Sweden relative to its population isnt especially high which was a good trade-off to the relative freedom we had in relation to many other countries. But whats more important I think is that it kept us from establishing new standards/norms in how much the state should interfer with the everyday life of normal people.

Regarding a more universal issue in this thread: masks. I am all for handing them out and wearing them when entering hospitals and other similar facilities, but what do you actually get from wearing them in your everyday life as a norm?

One argument that I think is interesting is that wearing masks would have a negative overall impact since it would have a negative effect on social distancing (if people felt that the mask protected them etc.). The public health agency in Sweden activly encouraged people to not wear masks in public for a long time, and I think this was a reason why.
#15191104
boomerintown wrote:Regarding a more universal issue in this thread: masks. I am all for handing them out and wearing them when entering hospitals and other similar facilities, but what do you actually get from wearing them in your everyday life as a norm?


It significantly reduces the viral load that an infected person puts into the air around them , thereby significantly reducing the chance of transmitting the disease.

One argument that I think is interesting is that wearing masks would have a negative overall impact since it would have a negative effect on social distancing (if people felt that the mask protected them etc.).


It may or may not. Unless you have evidence that it does, this is mere speculation.
#15191110
To some degree the behavioural argument about the negative impacts of masks in public is speculation, but there is obviously a common sense reasoning behind it.

But ultimatly, your statement is speculation too. It doesnt follow from masks having certain effects on a very specific micro level to them actually having any significant impact on a macro level.

If masks truly have a significant impact, then why havent this been more obvious in the death counts between different countries?

In a YouGov survey in june 2020 the number of people in the nordic countries who said they wore masks were extremly low (I think 2 % in Denmark, Sweden and Finland and 4 % in Norway). The same numbers in other countries were 35 % in Canada, 54 % in France and 59 % in USA.
(https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... k-map.html)

Sure, the numbers have probably changed since that. But have the general attitude towards masks done? In Sweden the vast majority have never worn masks, I was in Copenhagen the other day and it seemed to be the same case there (as was it when I was there the last time in 2020 despite a law dictating that had to wear masks in public transport). These numbers to me seems to suggests that masks in public have virtually no impacts whatsoever?
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