"Whether we like it or not" - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Pollution, global warming, urbanisation etc.
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#15191303
Truth To Power wrote:
There is a difference between the actual empirical science of climatology, which IMO is credible and well established, and the recent hysterical anti-fossil-fuel scaremongering that so falsely and disingenuously bills itself as "climate science." The findings of climatology are consistent with actual physical events, and are not based purely on computer models and systematically falsified temperature data.



This sounds like the rhetoric of a corporate hack.
#15191464
Truth To Power wrote:Who continues and will continue to be proved right by actual physical events.


This summer, we had a lethal heatwave. Hundreds died.

It would have been worse except for the smoke from the wildfires, which blocked out the sun.

Yes, the wildfires were also lethal and unprecedented.
#15191491
Steve_American wrote:He tells lies to the masses in the service of the powerful.

Ever consider that you might be the one serving the powerful? Anti-fossil-fuel hate propaganda and climate hysteria, a non-problem that cannot possibly be solved, is a useful distraction to divert people's attention from real problems of institutionalized injustice that could be solved if people understood them. The powerful don't want people to understand institutionalized injustice because they profit from it. So whipping up hysteria about a non-problem serves the interests of the powerful very nicely.
The situation in the US has not gotten better this year
There has been one disaster after the last.

Yes, but none of them were caused by CO2.
It's hard to use any other word to describe his claim that things are getting better climate wise.

Global crop yields continue to rise. Global deaths from temperature-related causes continue to fall. Those are just facts.
As I keep saying, truth is important, because you can prove anything with lies.

And as I keep saying, evil must always be justified, and the only way to justify it is with lies.
#15191493
Pants-of-dog wrote:This summer, we had a lethal heatwave. Hundreds died.

Yes, and 100 years ago, it was thousands. And many more people die from cold than from heat.
It would have been worse except for the smoke from the wildfires, which blocked out the sun.

Wildfires are related to drought and mismanagement of forests, not CO2. Indeed, warmer climate is associated with greater precipitation and flooding, not drought.
Yes, the wildfires were also lethal and unprecedented.

They were not unprecedented. Wildfires -- which have occurred every summer for thousands of years -- burned far more acreage and killed more people in the 1930s. That is just a fact.
#15191498
Truth To Power wrote:Yes, and 100 years ago, it was thousands. And many more people die from cold than from heat.


No, the records do not show any heat wave like this in recorded history.

Wildfires are related to drought and mismanagement of forests, not CO2. Indeed, warmer climate is associated with greater precipitation and flooding, not drought.


Please provide evidence that the recent wildfires in Canada were due to drought and that this was not caused by ACC.

They were not unprecedented. Wildfires -- which have occurred every summer for thousands of years -- burned far more acreage and killed more people in the 1930s. That is just a fact.


Please provide evidence for this claim that wildfires killed more people in western Canada in the 1930s.
#15191502
Truth To Power wrote:
Yes, but none of them were caused by CO2.



That is an old lie.

Image

"The current warming trend is of particular significance because it is unequivocally the result of human activity since the mid-20th century and proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented over millennia.1 It is undeniable that human activities have warmed the atmosphere, ocean, and land and that widespread and rapid changes in the atmosphere, ocean, cryosphere, and biosphere have occurred.

Earth-orbiting satellites and other technological advances have enabled scientists to see the big picture, collecting many different types of information about our planet and its climate on a global scale. This body of data, collected over many years, reveals the signals of a changing climate."

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

I think you did a Koch up...
#15191505
late wrote:That is an old lie.

It is a fact.
Image

And...? That is an old post hoc fallacy.
"The current warming trend is of particular significance because it is unequivocally the result of human activity since the mid-20th century and proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented over millennia.1

That claim consists of two bald falsehoods: that the change is unprecedented in speed, and that it is "unequivocally" the result of human activities.
It is undeniable that human activities have warmed the atmosphere, ocean, and land and that widespread and rapid changes in the atmosphere, ocean, cryosphere, and biosphere have occurred.

But the claim that the latter MUST have been caused EXCLUSIVELY or even PRIMARILY by the former is nothing but a blatant post hoc fallacy.
Earth-orbiting satellites and other technological advances have enabled scientists to see the big picture, collecting many different types of information about our planet and its climate on a global scale. This body of data, collected over many years, reveals the signals of a changing climate."

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

Climate is changing, true. But climate has always changed. Please present your evidence that ALL the natural factors that caused ALL previous climate change have somehow ALL simultaneously been rendered inoperative.

Thought not.
I think you did a Koch up...

I just identify indisputable facts of objective physical reality and their inescapable logical implications.
#15191520
Truth To Power wrote:
And...? That is an old post hoc fallacy.



You are claiming without evidence while actual scientists (NASA, in this case) have a ton of evidence.

IOW, you need a better explanation, or a counterexample. You have neither, just a lame claim based on nothing.

This was predicted a long time ago, it was observed a half century ago, and nothing, and I mean nothing, has offered a challenge of any significance to it..
#15191521
If the argument is that climate changes naturally, and that this natural change has also contributed to the observed warming, that argument is incorrect.

What is actually happening is that the natural variability in climate is actually cooling the planet right now. Human caused climate change is therefore responsible not only for all the warming, but also for the fact that the planet is not cooling.

So yes, we are responsible for all global warming.
#15191702
late wrote:You are claiming without evidence

False.
while actual scientists (NASA, in this case) have a ton of evidence.

And when the evidence doesn't support their interpretation, they change the evidence rather than their interpretation of it.
IOW, you need a better explanation, or a counterexample. You have neither, just a lame claim based on nothing.

That is just false. The better explanations -- natural cyclical variations, especially in solar activity -- have already been provided, and the counterexamples are legion.
This was predicted a long time ago, it was observed a half century ago, and nothing, and I mean nothing, has offered a challenge of any significance to it..

Again, that is just false:

1. Angstrom showed that Arrhenius was wrong 100 years ago because adding CO2 to standard atmospheric air typically found near the earth's surface does not significantly alter its infrared transmissivity.

2. Solanki et al showed in 2004 that solar activity during the 20th century warming period was the highest in several millennia. It was also the lowest in several millennia during the coldest 500-year period in the last 10,000 years. AGW screamers would have you believe, absurdly, that this is mere coincidence.

3. The paleo record shows CO2 follows temperature, not the other way around.

4. The island nations that were predicted to disappear due to rising sea level have not done so, and have in fact grown.

5. Arctic sea ice extent bottomed in 2012, and has grown since then.

6. Anyone can look out their own window and confirm for themselves that those who claim there is some sort of climate "crisis" or "emergency" are just flat-out lying.

Etc.
#15191704
Pants-of-dog wrote:If the argument is that climate changes naturally, and that this natural change has also contributed to the observed warming, that argument is incorrect.

No it isn't. It is a bald fact. Increased solar activity has simply returned the earth to more normal Holocene temperatures following the coldest 500-year period in the last 10,000 years.
What is actually happening is that the natural variability in climate is actually cooling the planet right now.

Right. And with the decline in solar activity, the planet has consequently cooled markedly since 2016:

https://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-glo ... peratures/
Human caused climate change is therefore responsible not only for all the warming, but also for the fact that the planet is not cooling.

So yes, we are responsible for all global warming.

I see. So, all the warming since the end of the Little Ice Age was caused by human activities? There was never going to be an up-phase of the cycle? Natural climate cycles somehow all ended exactly when the Industrial Revolution began?

What an absurd and anti-scientific load of nonsense.
#15191712
Truth To Power wrote:No it isn't. It is a bald fact. Increased solar activity has simply returned the earth to more normal Holocene temperatures following the coldest 500-year period in the last 10,000 years.


No. Modern global warming is not due to solar activity.

Even if increased solar activity were to be warming the planet, this would be offset by other natural factors, resulting in a net cooling.

And so the observed warming is due to anthropogenic causes.

Right. And with the decline in solar activity, the planet has consequently cooled markedly since 2016:

https://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-glo ... peratures/


Dr. Spencer is wrong if he is claiming that.

First of all, he is being dishonest by not disclosing that 2016 was the hottest year ever recorded until 2020. Thus, even though 2017-2019 were slightly cooler, it is a lie to say the planet has remarkably cooled.

I see. So, all the warming since the end of the Little Ice Age was caused by human activities? There was never going to be an up-phase of the cycle? Natural climate cycles somehow all ended exactly when the Industrial Revolution began?

What an absurd and anti-scientific load of nonsense.


No. This is a strawman. You misread.

I will repeat myself:

Climate naturally changes.
The climate would be naturally cooling itself now.
The climate is warming.
This means the observed warming is due to anthropogenic causes.
#15191765
[quote="Truth To Power"

Anyone can look out their own window and confirm for themselves that those who claim there is some sort of climate "crisis" or "emergency" are just flat-out lying.


[/quote]

Love the insanity, but...

Here in Maine, species are moving North. Some have left, like the caribou, new arrivals keep coming in. Lobster used to live as far south as New York. They've been moving up the coast, eventually we won't have lobster.

Winter used to kill off a lot of the ticks, but the winter is milder now, and a lot more of them survive. I've had my house for over 20 years. I used to have to shovel the roof twice, then it became once. I haven't had to shovel in a couple years.

The speed of glaciers melting is a danger. Over a billion people depend on the runoff from the Himalayas, and that glacier is melting.

The cost of weather disasters keeps going up, it has insurance guys worried.

I could keep going, but the scientists have done a better job than I could.

Spencer gets his money from Big Oil, his recent work is a joke. Btw, we measure warming from Space now, it's a direct measurement, and accurate, and doesn't help the kooks at all.


I've been countering kooks with science for about 30 years. I'm tired of it. This became settled science over 20 years ago. The only thing that makes this more prominent than the Flat Earth society is the millions of dollars Big Oil pumps in to create the appearance of controversy.

There is no controversy.
#15191833
"Over the past seven decades, researchers found high summertime temperatures are arriving earlier and lasting longer in the year because of global warming. This summer was no exception.

As we mark the end of summer and the fall equinox on Wednesday, fall and winter may not offer much reprieve. Research shows summers are expanding while spring, autumn and winter are becoming shorter and warmer with significant impacts for people and the environment.

“Definitely the longer summers would increase the likelihood of extreme events like heat waves and droughts, but it's almost like a chicken and egg argument,” wrote Tim Cowan, a senior research fellow at the University of Southern Queensland, in an email. “Greenhouse gases will make heat waves more likely to occur, which in turn would extend summer, adding to the drier conditions and then in turn making heat waves much hotter.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2021/09/22/longer-northern-hemisphere-summer-climate/
#15191859
Pants-of-dog wrote:No. Modern global warming is not due to solar activity.

Of course it is.
Even if increased solar activity were to be warming the planet, this would be offset by other natural factors, resulting in a net cooling.

That is nothing but absurd, anti-scientific garbage. Why would it?
And so the observed warming is due to anthropogenic causes.

That is a claim based on objectively false premises.
Dr. Spencer is wrong if he is claiming that.

No, he is objectively correct.
First of all, he is being dishonest by not disclosing that 2016 was the hottest year ever recorded until 2020.

No, he is being completely honest by reporting the fact that 2016 was hotter than 2020.
Thus, even though 2017-2019 were slightly cooler, it is a lie to say the planet has remarkably cooled.

Right. It is a lie that you made up. Where did I or Spencer say the planet has cooled "remarkably"?
No. This is a strawman. You misread.

No, that is what you said:
So yes, we are responsible for all global warming.

Remember?
I will repeat myself:

Shocker...
Climate naturally changes.

But only in one direction? It naturally cools but never warms?
The climate would be naturally cooling itself now.

And it is, as I already demonstrated.
The climate is warming.

No it isn't. I already proved that to you.
This means the observed warming is due to anthropogenic causes.

If your objectively false premises were true instead of being objectively false.
#15191860
late wrote:"Over the past seven decades, researchers found high summertime temperatures are arriving earlier and lasting longer in the year because of global warming. This summer was no exception.

As we mark the end of summer and the fall equinox on Wednesday, fall and winter may not offer much reprieve. Research shows summers are expanding while spring, autumn and winter are becoming shorter and warmer with significant impacts for people and the environment.

“Definitely the longer summers would increase the likelihood of extreme events like heat waves and droughts, but it's almost like a chicken and egg argument,” wrote Tim Cowan, a senior research fellow at the University of Southern Queensland, in an email.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2021/09/22/longer-northern-hemisphere-summer-climate/

Yes, solar activity was at a sustained multi-millennium high in the 20th century, returning the earth to more normal Holocene temperatures following the coldest 500-year period in the last 10,000 years.
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