Is this where the West is heading? - Page 14 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

All general discussion about politics that doesn't belong in any of the other forums.

Moderator: PoFo Political Circus Mods

#15191355
boomerintown wrote:
Need to go to bed, so I dont have time to outlay a military strategy. :)

But generally, we need to protect our borders and other european countries such as Ukraine from Russia. We need to controll mass migration from Africa and Middle East and so on.



Any comment on this....



Moria refugee camp

Mória Reception and Identification Centre (Greek: Κέντρο Υποδοχής και Ταυτοποίησης Μόριας), better known as Mória Refugee Camp, or just "Mória", was the largest refugee camp in Europe until it was burned down in September 2020.[1] It was located outside the village of Moria (Greek: Μόρια, Mória) near Mytilene on the island of Lesbos. Enclosed with barbed wire and a chain-link fence, the military camp served as a European Union “hotspot”. It was described by Human Rights Watch as an open air prison.[2]

In August 2018, it was dubbed by the field coordinator of Doctors Without Borders as "the worst refugee camp on earth", as reported by the BBC.[3] "I've never seen the level of suffering we are witnessing here every day", says Luca Fontana, MSF Lesbos coordinator (7'42).[4] The camp was built to accommodate around 3,000 people, however there were around 20,000 people living in the camp in summer 2020, among whom 6,000 to 7000 were children under the age of 18.[5]

Because of overcrowding, the camp expanded into a nearby olive grove, known as "Moria jungle", where the living quarters were makeshift, typically made out of pallets and tarps.[6] The migrants cut down an estimated 5,000 olive trees, some of them centuries old, to use as firewood.[7] The residents of the nearby village of Moria have complained of increased criminality, including break-ins, vandalism, and looting of houses.[8]

Visited in 2019, the camp was described as "the recreation of a concentration camp on European soil" by Jean Ziegler, vice-chairman of the committee of experts advising the UN Human Rights Council.[9][10]

On 8 September 2020, a fire badly damaged the camp of more than 12,000 asylum seekers.[11] On 10 September, three Greek ships were sent to help shelter the migrants.[12] By then, the camp was almost completely destroyed.[13] Most of the refugees were left homeless on the street. During protests demanding their evacuation Greek police fired tear gas at them.[14]

The Greek government maintains that the fires were started deliberately by migrants protesting that the camp had been put in lockdown due to a COVID-19 outbreak amongst the migrants in the camp. On September 16, 2020, four Afghan men were formally charged with arson for allegedly starting the fire.[15] Two other migrants, both aged 17, which is below the age of full adult criminal responsibility in Greece, were also allegedly involved in starting the fire, and were held in police detention on the mainland.[16]

After the closure of the Moria camp, a temporary facility was rapidly set up at Kara Tepe.[17]

A more organised closed reception centre for refugees and asylum seekers was approved to be built by the Greek government with EU approval after the fire destroyed the Moria camp. It will be located at the Vastria area (near the village of Nees Kydonies) in north-east Lesbos and will be completed by summer 2022.[18]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moria_refugee_camp



---


boomerintown wrote:
I think research is pretty obvious, we need to cooperate in projects.

Intelligence is also neccessary, we managed to make a big bust against organized crime in Sweden thanks to french security intelligence.

We need to have own alternatives for cloud data, for instance so that we can store patient data in hospitals. Since the US state can legally demand any data from american companies we cant use american cloud services for this. And obviously China isnt a better alternative.
#15191469
boomerintown wrote:I dont know if this is possible in US politics with the 2 party system, but this is what I think would stop someone like Trump in the future.

For most of my lifetime, Western politics is about "Stop so-and so!" rather than "Support so-and-so!"

It's like we've all realized that we can't produce heros, so it's best to support *the most benign monster*.

Vote the most benign monster (that the oligarchs offer you)!
#15191678
boomerintown wrote:
Ive tried to answer you, but I cant just "comment this" of various links and quotes.

Why dont you make a point and argue for it, and Ill comment that?



Do you think it's sound that European countries and the U.S. are summarily turning away asylum applicants without processing their claims, in violation of international laws?



The deportation of hundreds of children is a continuation of the violent assault on these migrants begun in May. Those who made it into the Spanish enclave, despite attacks by soldiers and militarised police, are now being summarily expelled without the chance to have their case heard, in flagrant violation of international law.

Podemos has half-heartedly postured as an opponent of the deportation order. The party’s Minister of Social Rights and Agenda 2030, Ione Belarra, pathetically declared, “any process of family regroupment must use a protocol that includes individualised interviews with the children as well as a detailed knowledge on the part of the Prosecutor's Office.”

In reality, Podemos is complicit in the xenophobic, anti-migrant policies of the government of which it is a part. In office it has implemented policies indistinguishable from those of the far-right, separating migrant children from their parents, building concentration camps on the Canary Islands and facilitating fascistic attacks on migrants stranded there. These policies led to the deaths of more than 2,000 migrants who attempted to cross to Spain in the first half of 2021, according to charity Caminando Fronteras.



https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/0 ... i-s03.html
#15191681
ckaihatsu wrote:Do you think it's sound that European countries and the U.S. are summarily turning away asylum applicants without processing their claims, in violation of international laws?


I am not really up to date about the situation in USA, so Ill try to adress the situation in Europe.

The current laws forces people to pay large amounts of money to human smugglers and often to risk their lives in order to reach Europe and apply for asylum. It isnt just deeply morally wrong, to force people to risk their lives, their savings while supporting organized criminals in order to apply for asylum, it also target the groups we have the biggest obligation to help. Women (who will likely get raped or worse unless they travel with a man), children, the poor (who cannot afford to pay for the trip), the sick and the people who needs asylum the most (opressed due to religion, ethnicity, and so on) since they risk being killed by others on the trip.

In addition to this, Europe simply cannot take care of the amount of people who want in.

Therefore we should change the system so that you apply for asylum on place (for instance an embassy or similar) and get your case tried there. I think Denmark already started doing this.

If we talk about specific countries some are simply already above max capacity. Likely this is the case in at least parts of southern Europe. It is definently the case in Sweden. We need to have a complete stop of asylum migration for at least 5 years, probably longer.

In achieving all of this we also need to protect our borders, with walls, ships, drones, agreements with countries such Turkey, Morocco and so on. The capacity we do have should be given to the people who need it the most. Not healthy, strong, young men.
#15191686
boomerintown wrote:
I am not really up to date about the situation in USA, so Ill try to adress the situation in Europe.

The current laws forces people to pay large amounts of money to human smugglers and often to risk their lives in order to reach Europe and apply for asylum. It isnt just deeply morally wrong, to force people to risk their lives, their savings while supporting organized criminals in order to apply for asylum, it also target the groups we have the biggest obligation to help. Women (who will likely get raped or worse unless they travel with a man), children, the poor (who cannot afford to pay for the trip), the sick and the people who needs asylum the most (opressed due to religion, ethnicity, and so on) since they risk being killed by others on the trip.

In addition to this, Europe simply cannot take care of the amount of people who want in.



I don't think there are any 'caps' on the total numbers of people who can immigrate to any given country -- such policy winds up being instituted by each particular country.

Here are the criteria, in international law, for asylum-seeking:



Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that "Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution." The United Nations 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees and the 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees guides national legislation concerning political asylum. Under these agreements, a refugee (or for cases where repressing base means has been applied directly or environmentally to the refugee) is a person who is outside that person's own country's territory (or place of habitual residence if stateless) owing to fear of persecution on protected grounds. Protected grounds include race, caste, nationality, religion, political opinions and membership or participation in any particular social group or social activities. Rendering true victims of persecution to their persecutor is a violation of a principle called non-refoulement, part of the customary and trucial Law of Nations.

These are the accepted terms and criteria as principles and a fundamental part in the 1951 United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees non-refoulement order.[7]

Since the 1990s, victims of sexual persecution (which may include domestic violence, or systematic oppression of a gender or sexual minority) have come to be accepted in some countries as a legitimate category for asylum claims, when claimants can prove that the state is unable or unwilling to provide protection.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_ ... _of_refuge



---


boomerintown wrote:
Therefore we should change the system so that you apply for asylum on place (for instance an embassy or similar) and get your case tried there. I think Denmark already started doing this.

If we talk about specific countries some are simply already above max capacity. Likely this is the case in at least parts of southern Europe. It is definently the case in Sweden. We need to have a complete stop of asylum migration for at least 5 years, probably longer.

In achieving all of this we also need to protect our borders, with walls, ships, drones, agreements with countries such Turkey, Morocco and so on. The capacity we do have should be given to the people who need it the most. Not healthy, strong, young men.



Well, this is a *spurious* distinction that's not backed-up by international law (above).

Here's about Denmark's immigration policy, recently:



Denmark’s attempt to return hundreds of Syrians to Damascus after deeming the city safe will “set a dangerous precedent” for other countries to do the same, say lawyers who are preparing to take the Danish government to the European court of human rights (ECHR) over the issue.

Authorities in Denmark began rejecting Syrian refugees’ applications for renewal of temporary residency status last summer, and justified the move because a report had found the security situation in some parts of the country had “improved significantly”. About 1,200 people from Damascus currently living in Denmark are believed to be affected by the policy.



https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... n-refugees
#15191692
ckaihatsu wrote:I don't think there are any 'caps' on the total numbers of people who can immigrate to any given country -- such policy winds up being instituted by each particular country.

Here are the criteria, in international law, for asylum-seeking:


You dont need to worry about this, Ive investigated and made decisions in several asylum cases so I am familiar with the international, european and national laws.

My case is that they should be interpreted this or that way, it is that we need new laws.

What I referred to with DK is this: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57343572

I dont know what you mean to how many people can migrate to a country, but I suppose it depends on what kind of society you want. Sure, if you are fine with complete anarchy - or at best a libertarian night-watching state - there might not be any cap.

But I dont want this where I live, I want a strong wellfare state, I dont want people on the streets, I dont want low-paying jobs and I dont want our national identity to be destroyed. Then there is a limit to how many people you can take in. So I suppose it depends on what kind of society you want.
#15191695
boomerintown wrote:
You dont need to worry about this, Ive investigated and made decisions in several asylum cases so I am familiar with the international, european and national laws.

My case is that they should be interpreted this or that way, it is that we need new laws.

What I referred to with DK is this: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57343572

I dont know what you mean to how many people can migrate to a country, but I suppose it depends on what kind of society you want. Sure, if you are fine with complete anarchy - or at best a libertarian night-watching state - there might not be any cap.

But I dont want this where I live, I want a strong wellfare state, I dont want people on the streets, I dont want low-paying jobs and I dont want our national identity to be destroyed. Then there is a limit to how many people you can take in. So I suppose it depends on what kind of society you want.



If the whole world was just starting out now with a blank-slate kind of situation then your politics would be appropriate, but that's certainly not how the world is, currently.

People seeking asylum in the U.S., for example, are doing so because of what the U.S. did to their home countries in Latin America, either directly militarily or via nationalist proxies.



An unprecedented human exodus is underway across the Americas, as two million people—nearly a tenth of the combined population of El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala—are expected to flee to the United States in the coming months. The US government has responded by closing its doors, abolishing the right to asylum and detaining 15,000 unaccompanied children as lawbreakers. This is the brutal, irrational response of the capitalist system to human suffering on a mass scale.



[T]here is never any discussion in the compliant media about the root causes of the social collapse of the Northern Triangle countries. The poverty and violence that dominate Central America are portrayed as the product of some unhappy accident.

The fact is that American imperialism is guilty of sociocide, and that millions are escaping a nightmare that was made in the USA. The American ruling class has systematically destroyed Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador for over a century, plundering the natural resources, exploiting the labor power of the working class, hoarding the land, starving the population, bankrupting the public treasury, and enriching itself all the while.

The governments that presently run each country have their roots in police state dictatorships imposed by the United States to enforce the diktats of American corporations and crush social opposition across the hemisphere.

For roughly two decades after the Great Depression, Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras were ruled by dictators, who carried out routine massacres of workers and peasants on behalf of the United Fruit Company. In 1932, El Salvador’s fascistic President Maximiliano Hernandez Martinez slaughtered 40,000 peasants engaged in an insurrection against US corporations and local landowners led by Agustin Farabundo Marti. Guatemalan President Jorge Ubico was an admirer of Hitler and a close ally of the US and United Fruit.

In 1954, the United States carried out a coup d’état to remove Guatemala’s President Jacobo Arbenz from power, thwarting land reforms. Dwight Eisenhower would later acknowledge, “We had to get rid of a Communist Government which had taken over.”



https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/0 ... s-m22.html
#15191697
ckaihatsu wrote:If the whole world was just starting out now with a blank-slate kind of situation then your politics would be appropriate, but that's certainly not how the world is, currently.

People seeking asylum in the U.S., for example, are doing so because of what the U.S. did to their home countries in Latin America, either directly militarily or via nationalist proxies.


I guess luckily for me then, I dont live in USA or in a country that have any responsibility in what the US have done to other countries.
#15191698
boomerintown wrote:
I guess luckily for me then, I dont live in USA or in a country that have any responsibility in what the US have done to other countries.



Well, you've been identifying with *Europe* in general, so here's about that. Any comment?



At least 43 refugees drowned on January 19 off the Libyan coast during their attempt to cross the Mediterranean Sea to Europe. Only 10 people could be rescued. They were returned to Libya by the Libyan coastguard. The mass death in the Mediterranean, for which the European Union (EU) bears responsibility, thus continues into yet another year.

The dinghy, carrying more than 50 people, suffered engine failure amid rough seas and capsized shortly after leaving the port city of Zawiyah, west of Tripoli, in the early hours of the morning. The survivors, who came from the Ivory Coast, Nigeria, Ghana and Gambia, stated that everyone on board the capsized boat came from West Africa.

Chief responsibility for these pointless deaths of people fleeing civil war, poverty and misery lies with the governments in Berlin, Rome, Paris, Vienna and The Hague. In close collusion with the European Commission, they have blocked all legal avenues to Europe.



https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/0 ... u-j27.html
#15191703
ckaihatsu wrote:Well, you've been identifying with *Europe* in general, so here's about that. Any comment?


Identify? I am swedish and Sweden is a country in Europe.

But I do think both Sweden as a country and Europe as a whole needs to guard its borders - and one of the specific reasons for this is because the current system leads to people having to risk their lives in order to apply for asylum.

This is why I advocate asylum processes abroad, in Africa and so on, and not in Europe. Then we can take in a certain amount each year, and it is probably the best that we let the amount be a national issue. Regarding Sweden we have taken in more than we can handle and need a total stop for at least 5 years.
#15191706
boomerintown wrote:
Identify? I am swedish and Sweden is a country in Europe.

But I do think both Sweden as a country and Europe as a whole needs to guard its borders - and one of the specific reasons for this is because the current system leads to people having to risk their lives in order to apply for asylum.

This is why I advocate asylum processes abroad, in Africa and so on, and not in Europe. Then we can take in a certain amount each year, and it is probably the best that we let the amount be a national issue.



Do you mean that you think there should be a *referendum* in Sweden, to set a number on how many asylum applicants are to be taken in?


boomerintown wrote:
Regarding Sweden we have taken in more than we can handle and need a total stop for at least 5 years.



Has there been a referendum on this? How did you arrive at the number of 'zero' for this?
#15191709
ckaihatsu wrote:Do you mean that you think there should be a *referendum* in Sweden, to set a number on how many asylum applicants are to be taken in?

Has there been a referendum on this? How did you arrive at the number of 'zero' for this?


Why would we need a referendum? This seems like a question for the government and the democratically elected parliament to me.

I arrived to the number zero because we have taken in more than we can handle, and need to have some calm to deal with the situation we are in right now.
#15191715
boomerintown wrote:
Why would we need a referendum? This seems like a question for the government and the democratically elected parliament to me.

I arrived to the number zero because we have taken in more than we can handle, and need to have some calm to deal with the situation we are in right now.



Well, that's your own personal *opinion* -- if it's up to parliament then one can ask what Sweden is doing to stay in compliance with the international *rights* of refugee seekers.

Is the EU parliament doing anything proactively to make sure that *all* European countries are taking in *proportionate* numbers of asylum seekers -- ?



Number of accepted asylum applications in 2012[19]

Country Total number Per 100,000 inhabitants

Malta 625 348
Sweden 15,290 161
Norway[20] 6,125 123
Austria 6,000 71
Switzerland 4,580 58
Belgium 5,880 53
Denmark 2,105 38
Netherlands 5,920 35
Finland 1,840 34
Germany 22,165 27
United Kingdom 14,570 23
France 14,325 22
Italy 9,270 15
Greece 625 1
Spain 565 1



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_in ... ber_States



---



Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that "Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution." The United Nations 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees and the 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees guides national legislation concerning political asylum. Under these agreements, a refugee (or for cases where repressing base means has been applied directly or environmentally to the refugee) is a person who is outside that person's own country's territory (or place of habitual residence if stateless) owing to fear of persecution on protected grounds. Protected grounds include race, caste, nationality, religion, political opinions and membership or participation in any particular social group or social activities. Rendering true victims of persecution to their persecutor is a violation of a principle called non-refoulement, part of the customary and trucial Law of Nations.

These are the accepted terms and criteria as principles and a fundamental part in the 1951 United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees non-refoulement order.[7]

Since the 1990s, victims of sexual persecution (which may include domestic violence, or systematic oppression of a gender or sexual minority) have come to be accepted in some countries as a legitimate category for asylum claims, when claimants can prove that the state is unable or unwilling to provide protection.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_ ... _of_refuge



---



Inconsistency of actions of member countries of the European Union

The principle of resettlement of refugees by quotas has not proved its worth in all countries of the European Union. According to statistics for 2017, Malta and Luxembourg accepted the maximum number of migrants among all EU countries with an average of 41-46 immigrants per 1000 population.[18] Meanwhile, Czechia, Croatia, Bulgaria and Slovakia accepted less than 5 migrants per 1000 of population.

In the autumn of 2015, the Czech Republic, together with Hungary, Romania and Slovakia, voted against the compulsory admission of refugees. Later, under pressure from EU neighbors, authorities nevertheless agreed to comply with EU requirements. The Czech Republic were supposed to accept 2000 asylum seekers but only accepted 12.[19] Spokesperson of the president of Czech Republic Milos Zeman commented that : “Our country simply cannot afford to risk terrorist attacks like those that occurred in France and Germany. By accepting migrants, we would create fertile ground for barbaric attacks”[20]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration ... pean_Union
#15191717
ckaihatsu wrote:Well, that's your own personal *opinion* -- if it's up to parliament then one can ask what Sweden is doing to stay in compliance with the international *rights* of refugee seekers.

Is the EU parliament doing anything proactively to make sure that *all* European countries are taking in *proportionate* numbers of asylum seekers -- ?


---


No, and I dont think it should. It is a national, democratic issue. Not something to be outsourced for the EU parliament to decide. If Hungary wants no immigrants, its up to them.

And I already told regarding the international rights, I dont think we should follow them anymore. They need to be reformed. Sweden can relativly easy keep refugees out, but it will be harder for southern Europe. We will need more common cooperation within EU and with Morocca, Turkey and so on.
#15191721
boomerintown wrote:
No, and I dont think it should. It is a national, democratic issue. Not something to be outsourced for the EU parliament to decide. If Hungary wants no immigrants, its up to them.

And I already told regarding the international rights, I dont think we should follow them anymore. They need to be reformed. Sweden can relativly easy keep refugees out, but it will be harder for southern Europe. We will need more common cooperation within EU and with Morocca, Turkey and so on.



Hmmmm, I think you're missing the point -- it was Western *imperialism* that *destabilized* the rest of the world, notably undeveloped and underdeveloped countries, and people from those colonized countries have grounds for relocating to better economies, particularly for the labor market.

Why is it that *capital* is allowed to flow anywhere it likes, seeking out investments all over the international patchwork, yet *workers* looking for better wages in other countries are *disallowed* from the 'free market' for labor, due to national borders -- ?
#15191725
ckaihatsu wrote:Hmmmm, I think you're missing the point -- it was Western *imperialism* that *destabilized* the rest of the world, notably undeveloped and underdeveloped countries, and people from those colonized countries have grounds for relocating to better economies, particularly for the labor market.

Why is it that *capital* is allowed to flow anywhere it likes, seeking out investments all over the international patchwork, yet *workers* looking for better wages in other countries are *disallowed* from the 'free market' for labor, due to national borders -- ?


Not really sure what Sweden has to do with this "western imperialism"?

Regarding the free market doctrine you seem to advocate I am heavily opposed to it. Sweden is a high skill and high salary economy. There is already a huge surplus of unqualified labor as a result of mass migration who cant jobs due to lack of skill. We dont need any additional.

What you say might be a good idea if you want even more exploitation of labor than there already is, low wages and a society without a functioning wellfare state, but I am not in favour of adopting that model.
#15191728
boomerintown wrote:
Not really sure what Sweden has to do with this "western imperialism"?



As during World War II....



Sweden

Main article: Sweden during World War II

Sweden maintained neutrality throughout the war, though some Swedish volunteers participated in the Winter War and in the Continuation War against the Soviet Union.

After Denmark and Norway were invaded on 9 April 1940, Sweden and the other remaining Baltic Sea countries became enclosed by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, then on friendly terms with each other as formalized in the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact. The lengthy fighting in Norway resulted in intensified German demands for indirect support from Sweden, demands that Swedish diplomats were able to fend off by reminding the Germans of the Swedes' feeling of closeness to their Norwegian brethren. With the conclusion of hostilities in Norway this argument became untenable, forcing the Cabinet to give in to German pressure and allow continuous (unarmed) troop transports, via Swedish railroads, between Germany and Norway. Throughout the war, Sweden supplied Germany with iron ore, which they desperately needed to produce weapons.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War ... try#Sweden



---


boomerintown wrote:
Regarding the free market doctrine you seem to advocate I am heavily opposed to it.



I'm not *advocating* the free market doctrine -- I'm saying that *any* defender of status quo capitalist economics will tout the benefits of *exchangeability*, for trade, among trade zones on an international scale.

In other words we *all* live in purportedly 'free market' capitalist economics whether we like it or not -- it's the default way of distributing produced goods and services from local to global scales.

So, in having markets for any given commodity, *labor* itself should not be excluded from participating, in-person, at any given nationalist labor market, even if that requires the crossing of national borders for that economic participation, like capital does readily. Your position so far sounds very *discriminatory* against the free flow of the labor commodity -- laborers themselves -- which is unjustifiable on economics grounds.


boomerintown wrote:
Sweden is a high skill and high salary economy. There is already a huge surplus of unqualified labor as a result of mass migration who cant jobs due to lack of skill. We dont need any additional.



There are labor markets for *all kinds* of jobs, at *all* skill levels, and it's not for *you* to say what kinds of labor can participate in the Swedish labor market, and who can't.


boomerintown wrote:
What you say might be a good idea if you want even more exploitation of labor than there already is, low wages and a society without a functioning wellfare state, but I am not in favour of adopting that model.



There's going to be economic labor exploitation *regardless* -- that's how capitalism operates to accumulate capital.

The individual laborer, or aspiring laborer, has *no control* at the individual level as to whether wages are low or high, whether the host country has a functioning welfare state or not, or what pre-existing people there think of economics, including labor markets.

Your opinions and prognostications are *interesting*, sure, but such has nothing to do with national *immigration* policies, as for Sweden, or the EU, or the U.S., etc.

Why would you be so discriminatory against the economic interests of laborers for finding the highest possible wages for themselves?
#15191729
ckaihatsu wrote:As during World War II....

Sure, there is no question that we were a big help to Germany during WW2. I just dont think allowing german trains through Sweden to Norway during the 1940s is what people usually call western imperialism.

Regarding the free market, I have no idea what you are talking about. Everything is heavily regulated, and especially the EU market. We essentially set the world standards for global trade with the regulations of the EU market. As I wrote somewhere else, from GDPR in USA to japanese cars sold in Mexico and Saudi Arabia. Virtually all global transactions follow EU regulations, which can be pretty good seeing as it raises the standard for quality and environmental concern everywhere.

ckaihatsu wrote:There are labor markets for *all kinds* of jobs, at *all* skill levels, and it's not for *you* to say what kinds of labor can participate in the Swedish labor market, and who can't.


There is not a market for all kinds of jobs in a country where taxes are high, where salaries are high, where regulations regarding work security, vacation, parental leave and so on are high for "all kinds of jobs". The cost of labor is simply too high, which is the reason that there are extremly few job positions for unqualified labor.

And its not for me yo say this, the standards are set through negotations between trade unions and employer associates.

It is pretty funny that you say you dont advocate a free market doctrine and that you seem to be against imperialism, but seems to want to enforce this doctrine, as an american, on other countries. :D

Anyway, I think we will keep our model, why dont you focus on your own country?
Last edited by boomerintown on 22 Sep 2021 23:55, edited 1 time in total.
  • 1
  • 12
  • 13
  • 14
  • 15
  • 16
  • 18

@Rancid I mention it because the police refuse[…]

WTF is THIS? What is America?

For anyone outside Britain who doesn't know Glas[…]

Baltic states should sue over Stalinism then. K[…]

God this thread is so stupid. It's all either bul[…]