[ckaihatsu]

The artist will do what they do because they know whatever the do will still sell. Once you establish a name, the quality of your work doesn't matter. Forget the tubeline sign which in itself was poor quality, an artist took money from a Danish museum and in return gave them two blank canvases called 'Take the Money and Run'. That isn't art. That is merely a concept and theft. When art became impressional, it was the way the image was formed that portrayed the message rather than the image itself. Now the work is merely the concept of a message which you must know before you see the art. There is now no quality. The little you do the better. Which I guess if fine for those who buy and sell. But not for ordinary people who just want to see high quality talent.

Yeah, I think it parallels / typifies capitalism's *overproduction* dynamic, in which any given commodity becomes increasingly *financialized* over time, to the detriment of *availability* of the product / use-value itself, due to soaring *prices* / financialization.

In the case of the art commodity the 'use value' / quality has been getting *hollowed-out* in favor of the artwork as *financial vehicle*, as you're noting -- and it's an *excellent* vehicle / asset for exchange values, at that. Really it's no different than a gradual, decades-long capitalist Ponzi scheme around *any other* commodity, like tulips or real estate or whatever.

*Politically* we could call it 'retro-feudalism', with its emphasis / obsession on *valuations*, over actual material availability -- kind of the *inverse* of the tech sphere over past decades where quality has *increased* exponentially while the cost to the consumer has *decreased* at the same time.

[ckaihatsu]

Yeah, I think it parallels / typifies capitalism's *overproduction* dynamic, in which any given commodity becomes increasingly *financialized* over time, to the detriment of *availability* of the product / use-value itself, due to soaring *prices* / financialization.

Apologies -- I have to *correct* this part, because I was inadvertently conflating *rentier*-type valuations, with *equity*-type valuations.

For *equity*-type mass industrial production the availability of the product / use-value itself *gets better*, as for tech, with *lower* prices.

But for *rentier*-type, necessarily *non-productive* assets and resources like art and real estate, there's no 'material-multiplier-effect' as we see in equity-based mass industrial production. The dynamic is the *inverse*, where the quantity / supply is *fixed* -- a single piece of art -- and the economic 'demand' / pricing skyrockets, resulting in speculative financialization, declining quality, and the hollowing-out of available use-value to the average person.

[ckaihatsu]

Btw, one way to visualize these material-economic dynamics is by using the following illustration / diagram -- for the present-day context of *capitalism*, just think of 'exchange values' as being initially from the cost of production (fixed costs plus variable costs) (the model factory at the center of the rings of type -- 'point of production'), to the initial buyer, and then from any given 'consumption' owner (the two depicted divots) to any-other given buyer / owner in the *secondary* market.

In the illustration all necessarily-labor-produced commodities ('goods & services (materials)', and 'ASSETS & RESOURCES', in the two outer rings of type around the factory center locus), form an overall general 'landscape' of now-existing commodities, equity-based, and rentier-based, respectively.


labor credits framework for 'communist supply & demand'

Spoiler: show

https://web.archive.org/web/20201211050 ... ?p=2889338


Also:

[11] Labor & Capital, Wages & Dividends

Spoiler: show

[Rugoz]

Yeah, I think it parallels / typifies capitalism's *overproduction* dynamic, in which any given commodity becomes increasingly *financialized* over time, to the detriment of *availability* of the product / use-value itself, due to soaring *prices* / financialization.

In the case of the art commodity the 'use value' / quality has been getting *hollowed-out* in favor of the artwork as *financial vehicle*, as you're noting -- and it's an *excellent* vehicle / asset for exchange values, at that. Really it's no different than a gradual, decades-long capitalist Ponzi scheme around *any other* commodity, like tulips or real estate or whatever.

*Politically* we could call it 'retro-feudalism', with its emphasis / obsession on *valuations*, over actual material availability -- kind of the *inverse* of the tech sphere over past decades where quality has *increased* exponentially while the cost to the consumer has *decreased* at the same time.

Blah blah blah.

I have no taste and no money, hence I am a commie.

[ckaihatsu]

Blah blah blah.

I have no taste and no money, hence I am a commie.

You, like Crantag, are unfortunately attempting to make this all *personal* / interpersonal, somehow.

Also, you're just being blithely *dismissive* of the content by using *stereotypes* and character-assassination.

In other words you're *mixing scales*, and trying to make politics sound *personal*, instead of actually addressing the subject matter of *political economy*.


History, Macro-Micro -- politics-logistics-lifestyle

Spoiler: show

[Igor Antunov]

Fixed it for you, @Igor Antunov.

And?

Both are true. Both are based. Fuck the tax man.

[colliric]

I wish they just got rid of income tax and just upped the GST. Make the system simpler. Also since everything's reported automatically these days, why the fuck do I even need to do a tax return?

They should just send me a notice saying everything's been reported, with their copy of the receipts and "here's our calculation on your return". If you wish to challenge, you can submit a manual tax return anyway, it's your choice.

"If you don't do it by September 1, it will be automatically done with the 'prefill' information we have received".

[Crantag]

I 'force' you to endlessly repeat yourself -- ?

And how did I do *that*, exactly, when it hasn't even happened?

How is any of this *interpersonal* / personal -- ?

Like I said, go ahead and pontificate -- I guess it *is* in line with the thread's title.

It's cool man, I can be combative unnecessarily, sorry about that.

I just think it is shitty art.

How is it political?

I guess it is political in that it is state commissioned.

I, as no art critic or even art appreciator, find it absolutely awful, and even obscene, in the ways I mentioned.

I don't even consider it art, it is like the guy published the crayon drawings of his kindergartener.

I repeat myself again, but I don't know why you need to dig into this, it is my opinion, and I'm entitled to it.

[ckaihatsu]

It's cool man, I can be combative unnecessarily, sorry about that.

I just think it is shitty art.

How is it political?

I guess it is political in that it is state commissioned.

I, as no art critic or even art appreciator, find it absolutely awful, and even obscene, in the ways I mentioned.

I don't even consider it art, it is like the guy published the crayon drawings of his kindergartener.

I repeat myself again, but I don't know why you need to dig into this, it is my opinion, and I'm entitled to it.

Already addressed this....

Okay, never mind then -- note that I was *asking*, not trying to be a dickhead.

viewtopic.php?p=15193480#p15193480

[Pants-of-dog]

Even the evil can become geniuses under the right conditions Heisenberg. Hitler was an artist. He did know what he was talking about when it come to art. He though perhaps went a bit OTT when it came to the Bauhaus.

I thought the enmity between the Bauhaus and the Nazis stemmed from Mies van der Rohe’s decision to close the school after letting the Nazis think that he would keep the school open under their guidance, rather than any disdain for modern art.

Nazi architecture was heavily Futurist, for example.

————————

As for the OP, the examples shown of subway logos may not be good art, but more importantly, they are not art.

By that I mean that subway logos serve a functional purpose beyond themselves. I think it was @Potemkin who said (in this thread or the bitcoin thread) that art is useless, and by that it was meant that art does not serve a function. So, a subway logo is not art because it is also a tool for navigating a city. Mexico City does this very well, actually.

Perhaps the sheer ugliness of the logo will make it memorable and help this logo serve its function.

[Crantag]

Already addressed this....

Hey, no sweat, it's all good.

I also addressed what you addressed.

[Crantag]

The composition and the material/color and how "on the nose" the message is. It's hilarious.



For commies anything but the Gulag is neoliberal. I take it*.

*the neoliberalism, not the Gulag.

You snipped the part where I called you probably a nice guy.

I'm not a communist.

And you are neoliberal trash, hate to be the bearer of bad news here.

[Crantag]

And you can expect additional replies from me if @ckaihatsu chooses to reply more.

Yeah I'm bating him a little, and it's fun to be replied to, but all I have done here is call shit art shit art.

And he isn't having the last word.

[Rugoz]

I'm not a communist.

You're not a neoliberal, hence you are a commie. See how that works?

And you are neoliberal trash, hate to be the bearer of bad news here.

I'm not a neoliberal by any useful definition of the word.

[ckaihatsu]

You're not a neoliberal, hence you are a commie. See how that works?

People tend to like to just throw around labels / generalizations, because it's easy -- and, the political landscape has gotten much more polarized and stark in recent decades, so I'd tend to agree here on the objective binary dichotomy.

Statists tend to want to *ignore* the left-wing, right-wing differences of empirical interests since the state / bureaucracy happens to be on the ascendancy (in the U.S.), over the bourgeoisie, but the left wing is *still* interested in various extents of *social equality*, while the right wing would prefer *hierarchy*, even to the point of caste and heredity.


3-Dimensional Axes of Social Reality

Spoiler: show

Ideologies & Operations -- Left Centrifugalism

Spoiler: show

Anatomy of a Platform

Spoiler: show

[ckaihatsu]

The Pandora Papers - How the world of offshore finance is still flourishing _ Four Corners