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By late
#15193961
Rancid wrote:
I think the US would be very willing to go to war with China over Taiwan.



The War Lobby never saw a war it didn't want. But I seriously doubt Biden would upend policy we've had for over a generation. We'll help Taiwan, but we're just not going to go with war with China. There are a number of perfectly good reasons, which came up earlier in the thread.

But the nail in the coffin is nukes. We don't go to war with a guy that has nukes..
#15193962
late wrote:We don't go to war with a guy that has nukes..


Meh, I don't buy this. Nuclear powers going to war, does not guarantee there will be nuclear war.

Still, I agree, there will more likely not be a war.
#15193971
China has sent many of its planes through Taiwan airspace, more planes than any other time ever. The CCP is testing the response to this and trying to assert dominance. They will fully subsume Hong Kong and keep testing to see if they can annex Taiwan.
#15193973
Rancid wrote:I think the US would be very willing to go to war with China over Taiwan. I wouldn't brush this off, but at the same time, due to China's strategy here, there will be no war.


I don't know @Rancid. Listening to Xi the other day, reuniting with Taiwan is an upmost importance to them and the threat or war with America clearly doesn't bother China. It is difficult to know what will happen, but waiting or being patience right now only makes sense if you are hoping for a peaceful transaction in the future. And I think that is what they are hoping for. Any interference or progress in Taiwan independence is the only thing I see China invading over actually. Or that is my opinion on it. So really war is only going to happen once America hands are forced. It maybe one day China believes the independence move is a threat to their One China Two Party policy and they invade. And then America will have a choice. Enter a futile war they cannot win and most likely lose for the sakes of principle. Or do nothing and try and get the best possible deal for Taiwan under China control. They will most likely do the latter. Why? Because a US China war will be nuclear and also send the world back into the stone age so the rest of the world will indeed stay out of it given that making the US be alone.
#15193977
Unthinking Majority wrote:China has sent many of its planes through Taiwan airspace, more planes than any other time ever. The CCP is testing the response to this and trying to assert dominance. They will fully subsume Hong Kong and keep testing to see if they can annex Taiwan.

Let them attack on Taiwan. Let them to be "the evil empire" so people will hate China. It will make easier for the West to counter China.

It will be end of China's economic miracle, the day they start an actual war over a neighbour.
By Rich
#15194239
Fasces wrote:I don't buy the hyperbole that China has territorial ambitions beyond what it considers as Chinese territory in the 1920s - unlike Hitler who had written texts about Germany subjugating Eastern Europe and was quite explicit in his imperialist objectives. Anyone that says otherwise isn't actual listening to the CCP or watching their acts outside of that region.

China's territorial ambitions of the 1920s seems about as bad as Hitler's in terms of geographical area and in terms of the population that would be subjugated. In the 1920s would be great powers or would be super powers had the excuse that both France and Britain maintained vast traditional empires. China has no such excuse now.

I find it quite gratifying that a number of ideas that I have put out, that have initially been dismissed as unrealistic irrelevant extremism have later become mainstream. One was recognising the Golan as Israeli, another was arming Taiwan with nuclear weapons. However we need to go further. We need to accept that an all out war with National Socialist China may be unavoidable as it was unavoidable with Adolph Hitler's Germany, despite our attempts at appeasement. If war with China is unavoidable it is better to have it sooner rather than later. The irony is that the stronger we stand against the evil of National Socialist China, the better our chance of actually avoiding all out war. The weaker we are, the greater the chance that we will end up in an all out war.

I'm reminded of the so called peace movements in Europe in the 1980's. These traitorous commie backed so called peace movements actually made war with the Soviet Union more likely. It was Reagan, Thatcher and others courageous decision to deploy cruise in Europe, and move from MAD to Flexible Response, that helped ensure peace and avoid all out war with the Soviet Union. Vietnam was not ultimately won by the Commies, President Nixon, America's greatest post war president had achieved a sustainable, affordable defence of South Vietnam, it was lost by the traitorous defeatocrats in Congress. Its time to draw the correct lessons form Vietnam and abandon the absurd notion that if you throw a Hyena enough meat it will eventually become a vegetarian.
#15194241
Rich wrote:China's territorial ambitions of the 1920s seems about as bad as Hitler's in terms of geographical area and in terms of the population that would be subjugated. In the 1920s would be great powers or would be super powers had the excuse that both France and Britain maintained vast traditional empires. China has no such excuse now.


Other than Taiwan and some uninhabited mountain valleys, they have it all.

Rich wrote:We need to accept that an all out war with National Socialist China may be unavoidable as it was unavoidable with Adolph Hitler's Germany,


You might be backing the wrong horse on that one. :lol:

Image
By late
#15194438
Rich wrote:
China's territorial ambitions of the 1920s seems about as bad as Hitler's in terms of geographical area and in terms of the population that would be subjugated. In the 1920s would be great powers or would be super powers had the excuse that both France and Britain maintained vast traditional empires. China has no such excuse now.

I find it quite gratifying that a number of ideas that I have put out, that have initially been dismissed as unrealistic irrelevant extremism have later become mainstream. One was recognising the Golan as Israeli, another was arming Taiwan with nuclear weapons. However we need to go further. We need to accept that an all out war with National Socialist China may be unavoidable as it was unavoidable with Adolph Hitler's Germany, despite our attempts at appeasement. If war with China is unavoidable it is better to have it sooner rather than later. The irony is that the stronger we stand against the evil of National Socialist China, the better our chance of actually avoiding all out war. The weaker we are, the greater the chance that we will end up in an all out war.

I'm reminded of the so called peace movements in Europe in the 1980's. These traitorous commie backed so called peace movements actually made war with the Soviet Union more likely. It was Reagan, Thatcher and others courageous decision to deploy cruise in Europe, and move from MAD to Flexible Response, that helped ensure peace and avoid all out war with the Soviet Union. Vietnam was not ultimately won by the Commies, President Nixon, America's greatest post war president had achieved a sustainable, affordable defence of South Vietnam, it was lost by the traitorous defeatocrats in Congress. Its time to draw the correct lessons form Vietnam and abandon the absurd notion that if you throw a Hyena enough meat it will eventually become a vegetarian.



Was Costco having a sale on crazy by the ton?
#15194441
Rich wrote:China's territorial ambitions of the 1920s seems about as bad as Hitler's in terms of geographical area and in terms of the population that would be subjugated. In the 1920s would be great powers or would be super powers had the excuse that both France and Britain maintained vast traditional empires. China has no such excuse now.

I find it quite gratifying that a number of ideas that I have put out, that have initially been dismissed as unrealistic irrelevant extremism have later become mainstream. One was recognising the Golan as Israeli, another was arming Taiwan with nuclear weapons. However we need to go further. We need to accept that an all out war with National Socialist China may be unavoidable as it was unavoidable with Adolph Hitler's Germany, despite our attempts at appeasement. If war with China is unavoidable it is better to have it sooner rather than later. The irony is that the stronger we stand against the evil of National Socialist China, the better our chance of actually avoiding all out war. The weaker we are, the greater the chance that we will end up in an all out war.

I'm reminded of the so called peace movements in Europe in the 1980's. These traitorous commie backed so called peace movements actually made war with the Soviet Union more likely. It was Reagan, Thatcher and others courageous decision to deploy cruise in Europe, and move from MAD to Flexible Response, that helped ensure peace and avoid all out war with the Soviet Union. Vietnam was not ultimately won by the Commies, President Nixon, America's greatest post war president had achieved a sustainable, affordable defence of South Vietnam, it was lost by the traitorous defeatocrats in Congress. Its time to draw the correct lessons form Vietnam and abandon the absurd notion that if you throw a Hyena enough meat it will eventually become a vegetarian.

I've come to the feeling that what the political masters do, is their affirmative, and to them, I mean as little as a little ant that they might step on with their boot, and it is just getting too tiring to care about much.

But, I also love China, I always have, and I lived there for 2 years. It kinda sucks, in terms of the enforced uniformity, like how every city basically looks the same, but welcome to communism, I guess.

There are 2 points I wanted to address.

First, a war between the US and China would be absolutely unwinnable, for the US side. I don't think it will happen, but it is a disaster, which must be averted, at all cost.

Second, historical parallels do exist, but history doesn't literally repeat itself, and China is far away from being Nazi Germany.

I don't see the parallels matching up much at all, but if you think some match up, fine on you, but there are serious limitations to historical parallels, in the best instance.

Hope you are well, though.
By Rich
#15194595
I'm an easy going middle of the road moderate when it comes to Taiwan. I don't mind which way we choose to go. I don't mind whether we recognise Taiwan as a separate country now, or recognise China as one country and launch an immediate all out war to restore all of China's territory to the legitimate government of China currently resident in Taiwan.
#15194599
Rugoz wrote:The DPP has been in power since 2016. I don't remember Taiwan declaring independence. AFAIK independence is not even in the DPP's program.


No, but independence is clearly on their agenda and cross strait relations seem to deteriorate every time the DPP are in power. Relations were much better under Ma Ying-jeou and the KMT.

Rugoz wrote:But the Kuomintang are the fascists! :lol:


Hardly. They are a democratic and liberal party.

Rich wrote:I'm an easy going middle of the road moderate when it comes to Taiwan. I don't mind which way we choose to go. I don't mind whether we recognise Taiwan as a separate country now, or recognise China as one country and launch an immediate all out war to restore all of China's territory to the legitimate government of China currently resident in Taiwan.


Any discussion of invading China is pie in the sky. The US couldnt't win in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq or Afghanistan, very small countries. The Europeans would not follow America, and the Europeans with the notable exceptions of France and Poland have small militaries.
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