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#15191877
The year 2011 saw the beginning of the Arab Spring with a popular uprising in Tunisia in North Africa.

Today, 10 years later, the President of Tunisia announced that he will rule by decree.

It is relatively easy to export sneakers, but apparently much harder to export democracy.

Regards, stay safe 'n well 'n remember the Big 5.
#15191939
Torus34 wrote:The year 2011 saw the beginning of the Arab Spring with a popular uprising in Tunisia in North Africa.

Today, 10 years later, the President of Tunisia announced that he will rule by decree.

It is relatively easy to export sneakers, but apparently much harder to export democracy.

Regards, stay safe 'n well 'n remember the Big 5.

I said at the time that the Arab Spring would be their equivalent of the European revolutions of 1848 - that it would simultaneously change everything and change nothing. The Arab Spring failed, just as the revolutions of 1848 failed. But the clock is now ticking....
#15191942
The Big 5?
#15191962
AFAIK wrote:The Big 5?


Hi, AFAIK!

Yup! The Big 5.

- Wash hands frequently.
- Wear a mask when out of house and among people.
- Maintain physical distance of 6 feet among others in public.
- Get vaccinated.
- Obtain up-dates on the pandemic from reliable sources.

Regards, stay safe 'n well 'n remember the Big 5.
#15191969
Potemkin wrote:I said at the time that the Arab Spring would be their equivalent of the European revolutions of 1848 - that it would simultaneously change everything and change nothing. The Arab Spring failed, just as the revolutions of 1848 failed. But the clock is now ticking....

great post , and Moscow know it... it matter of time when juchi ulus goes down

Putin's imperialism turns neighbors into enemies - Atlantic ...
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org › blogs › ukrainealert
27 Apr 2021 — Meanwhile, a sixth nation, Czechia, was also until relatively recently part of Moscow's extended European empire. Why are so many countries with ...
#15191971
Potemkin wrote:I said at the time that the Arab Spring would be their equivalent of the European revolutions of 1848 - that it would simultaneously change everything and change nothing. The Arab Spring failed, just as the revolutions of 1848 failed. But the clock is now ticking....


Hi, Potemkin!

Tribal societies seem quite resistant to attempts to install a democratic system of government. It remains to be seen whether here in the United States of America the rise of a red/blue tribalism will also result in the end of what we could call the American Season.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
#15192018
To some extent the Arab Spring continues on. We have war in Yemen and Syria. The West was lucky enough to stay out of it after Libya. I prefer it if people actually decide their own fate which is made more difficult in the ME with different ethnicities such as Shia and Sunni. Although I look at Tunisia and Egypt and wonder, has anything really changed? :hmm:
#15193828
Torus34 wrote:Tribal societies seem quite resistant to attempts to install a democratic system of government.

Yes, we saw that in North America, where 150 nations had to be genocided to create "democracy."

Were you hoping that the USA would show just as much "devotion" to the Afghan nations?
#15193846
QatzelOk wrote:Yes, we saw that in North America, where 150 nations had to be genocided to create "democracy."


Totally different things.

The likes of Washington had always been fighting for democracy for themselves.

But their idea should inspire others to do the same, again, for themselves.

And those people were not the same as those who killed others just to expand their lands.

I am quite sick of you constantly mixing up the two in order to prove your reactionary point.
#15193848
B0ycey wrote:I prefer it if people actually decide their own fate which is made more difficult in the ME with different ethnicities such as Shia and Sunni.


The most difficult part is not this.

The most difficult part is that there is no real end in fighting for freedom, but us human beings are too physical -- we will succumb to tiredness and physical damage.
#15193866
QatzelOk wrote:Yes, we saw that in North America, where 150 nations had to be genocided to create "democracy."

Were you hoping that the USA would show just as much "devotion" to the Afghan nations?


Hi, QatzelOK!

Frankly, I'm more concerned at present with the growing red/blue tribalization of the United States of America and what it portends for the admittedly warped form of democracy as it is practiced here.

Regards, stay safe 'n well 'n remember the Big 5.
#15194051
Torus34 wrote:Hi, QatzelOK!

Frankly, I'm more concerned at present with the growing red/blue tribalization of the United States of America...

Are you surprised that American society looks more and more like a football game?

More like a clash between cola drink titans?

More like the Manichean hell that its elite has been inflicting on hapless "others" for the last 4 centuries? (Happy Columbus Day)

► Show Spoiler
#15194058
QatzelOk wrote:Are you surprised that American society looks more and more like a football game?

More like a clash between cola drink titans?

More like the Manichean hell that its elite has been inflicting on hapless "others" for the last 4 centuries? (Happy Columbus Day)

► Show Spoiler


Hi, QatzelOK!

With respect to your question, I admit to some surprise. I was unaware that such a large percent of my fellow Americans were willing to accept an authoritarian approach to government. It speaks, perhaps, to the long-standing anti-elite undercurrent and to a failure in our educational system.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
#15194347
Torus34 wrote:I was unaware that such a large percent of my fellow Americans were willing to accept an authoritarian approach to government.

They accept an authoritative, fascist government because... we know nothing now, as a society.

We have lost our communities, and lost our souls by following the trends that commerce fed us like cheese in their maze.

The average person in rich, Western societies never gets much more mature than a late teen, and isn't very curious about the world or the way it works. This average "us" is enclosed in boxes all day, and not allowed to interelate with other humans.

Our routines have turned us into dogs with no social skills or survival skills.

So you might want to look a bit deeper into how *fake* we are in our time, and how *reality* is so far from our fingers, that we can't possibly survive much longer.
#15194370
QatzelOk wrote:They accept an authoritative, fascist government because... we know nothing now, as a society.

We have lost our communities, and lost our souls by following the trends that commerce fed us like cheese in their maze.

The average person in rich, Western societies never gets much more mature than a late teen, and isn't very curious about the world or the way it works. This average "us" is enclosed in boxes all day, and not allowed to interelate with other humans.

Our routines have turned us into dogs with no social skills or survival skills.

So you might want to look a bit deeper into how *fake* we are in our time, and how *reality* is so far from our fingers, that we can't possibly survive much longer.


Hi again.

I'm not sure I can sign on to the doom 'n gloom expressed in your last sentence. [The 'The young generation is going to the dogs' comment can be traced to Imperial Rome.]

Our American society is changing, and that's the truth. Some of the changes, such as working from home and shopping on line, were evident pre-Covid and have been accelerated by the pandemic. Others, as the 'browning' of America and the percent of those from Spanish-speaking cultures, have simply continued apace.

If there is one thing we can be reasonably assured of, it's that the rate of cultural change has increased in recent decades. The process of accepting that which is new while retaining that which is old isn't friction-free, and that's the truth, too.

Regards, stay safe 'n well 'n remember the Big 5.
#15194400
Torus34 wrote:I'm not sure I can sign on to the doom 'n gloom expressed in your last sentence. [The 'The young generation is going to the dogs' comment can be traced to Imperial Rome.]

Our American society is changing...

Changing, yes. But is it getting better for most people, or getting worst?

What happened to "community?" What happened to "social contacts?" What happened to "extended families?" All of these things - the invisible things that we need - have been degraded by New Normals.

That "the young" went to the dogs in the Roman Empire (just before its fall) should be a warning, and not a throw-away retort.
#15194405
QatzelOk wrote:Changing, yes. But is it getting better for most people, or getting worst?

What happened to "community?" What happened to "social contacts?" What happened to "extended families?" All of these things - the invisible things that we need - have been degraded by New Normals.

That "the young" went to the dogs in the Roman Empire (just before its fall) should be a warning, and not a throw-away retort.


Hi!

Community, as such, is still with us. I place in evidence the various ethnic communities dotted throughout the nation. If you're looking for an 'all one big happy family' US community, you'll look in vain, whether now or then. The same can be said of social contacts [Ed.: This is one form,] and extended families.

With regard to whether things, seen with sufficient perspective, are getting better or worse for us, h. sapiens, I suggest Dr. Steven Pinker's book Enlightenment Now for a graphical discussion based in evidence.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
#15194409
Torus34 wrote:Community, as such, is still with us. I place in evidence the various ethnic communities dotted throughout the nation.

Identity politics is the opposite of a functionning community. It will lead to dissolution of the state.


If you're looking for an 'all one big happy family' US community, you'll look in vain, whether now or then. The same can be said of social contacts [Ed.: This is one form,] and extended families.

Evidence is what is in front of your face. The USA has always been mainly composed of immoral business tyrants, and their mercs. A society of mercs is not likely to develop much of a culture or social bonds.

I present normal life in the USA as evidence of this.

With regard to whether things, seen with sufficient perspective, are getting better or worse for us, h. sapiens, I suggest Dr. Steven Pinker's book Enlightenment Now for a graphical discussion based in evidence.

The Enlightenment happened 250 years ago. Its inability to understand anything other than cold reason... is part of what has gotten us into so much trouble.

And what's with your anality regarding "evidence" in what is obviously a philosophy vehicle of a thread? Poor methodology guarantees poor conclusions, and restricting a philo thread to "physical evidence and charts" will kill it since metaphorical construction is a stronger form of *evidence* in the field of philosophy.
#15194846
B0ycey wrote:To some extent the Arab Spring continues on. We have war in Yemen and Syria.


Neither of which are in any way movements of the people of these countries against an oppressive government.

Syria, the main attacker is the USA which has gotten one third of the country under control, while the people suffer a famine because of it.

Yemen, Saudi Arabia is, with help from other countries such as the USA, attacking the country for control.

So what the heck is your point ?!?!?!? :eek:
#15194849
Negotiator wrote:Syria, the main attacker is the USA which has gotten one third of the country under control, while the people suffer a famine because of it.

Yemen, Saudi Arabia is, with help from other countries such as the USA, attacking the country for control.

So what the heck is your point ?!?!?!? :eek:


I guess my point was there are still movements against the government in these countries due to civil war. Perhaps they are US, SA proxies (moderate rebels) and not likely to topple these governments. But the same things that made people stand up during the Arab Spring are what is maintaining instability in the ME today.

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