Lenin´s Hitler style plans for Europe, the truth behind Moscow Bolshevik Marxist attack on Poland - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15194184
Lenin´s Hitler style plans for Europe, the truth behind Moscow Bolshevik Marxist attack on Poland , Lithuania and Belarus


"

Lenin was convinced that the revolution should not only target Germany,
Image
but also the countries in south-west Europe. Six days after the decisive 17 July meeting he

telegrammed Stalin,

The situation in the Comintern is splendid. Zinoviev, Bukharin, and I, too,

think that revolution in Italy should be spurred on immediately. My personal

opinion is that to this end, Hungary should be sovietised, and perhaps also

Czechia and Romania."



https://theses.gla.ac.uk/663/1/2009crollphd.pdf


shocking for many info, I know, question how close was Moscow Bolshevik gang from conquering Europe in 20s, - 80s?
#15194195
fuser wrote:Sadly not close enough. :(

To this day, Moscow horde is terrifying for it’s renditions and pantomime. But we all know kleptocracy is unsustainable without War....

Image
#15194268
litwin wrote:
Lenin´s Hitler style plans for Europe, the truth behind Moscow Bolshevik Marxist attack on Poland , Lithuania and Belarus


"

Lenin was convinced that the revolution should not only target Germany,
[img]https://usrussiarelations.org/media/351b6469aa004ea5b101a9810fe8af79_900.jpg[img]
but also the countries in south-west Europe. Six days after the decisive 17 July meeting he

telegrammed Stalin,

The situation in the Comintern is splendid. Zinoviev, Bukharin, and I, too,

think that revolution in Italy should be spurred on immediately. My personal

opinion is that to this end, Hungary should be sovietised, and perhaps also

Czechia and Romania."



https://theses.gla.ac.uk/663/1/2009crollphd.pdf


shocking for many info, I know, question how close was Moscow Bolshevik gang from conquering Europe in 20s, - 80s?


litwin wrote:
To this day, Moscow horde is terrifying for it’s renditions and pantomime. But we all know kleptocracy is unsustainable without War....

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuEMsE6VYAEKKfm.jpg[img]


litwin wrote:
the Poles destroyed Moscow Marxist Horde and saved the Europe from Moscow oriental despotism

59xHcxNl8F8



You're making Lenin and the Bolsheviks sound downright *bourgeois* and *imperialist*, when in fact the Bolshevik Revolution *wasn't* geopolitical or territory-hungry as we're used to seeing with nationalist inter-imperialist (world) warfare.

Also Lenin was just reflecting actual mass *support* for revolution, with his formalizing leadership -- he was *not* the crazy-eyed power-mad carcicature that you're employing here.

I'll note that the Russian people had previously *overthrown* the tsar and feudal relations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1905_Russian_Revolution), paving the way for not just a modern nation-state (like England, the U.S., and France), but even *further*, to actual *workers democracy* over how industrialized workplaces were to be run -- a *proletarian* revolution.

You're conflating Bolshevism with subsequent counter-factional Stalinist nationalist consolidation and even *post-USSR* capitalist restoration -- kleptocracy.

You're doing a *disservice* to history with your out-of-history contextualizations, demonizations, and slandering.



As the tsar fell, the bourgeois forces behind the provisional government were pushing in one direction, while the masses who made the revolution were pushing in the opposite direction. The gap between them grew wider with every week that passed.

Russia’s capitalists were determined to continue with the very policies which had driven the workers of Petrograd to rise and the soldiers to back the rising. Tsarism had thrown backward, semi-medieval Russia into a war with Germany, the second most advanced capitalism in the world. The result was bound to be economic dislocation on a massive scale, enormous losses at the front, a breakdown in food deliveries to the cities and impoverishment of the urban workforce. Yet the new government was as determined to persist with the war as the old, since Russia’s capitalists were just as keen on expanding the empire across the Black Sea to Istanbul and the Mediterranean as any tsarist general. Their great industries were monopolies run in conjunction with the state, their national markets restricted by the backwardness of agriculture and the poverty of the peasants. What better way to expand those markets than by expanding the borders of the state? They could see no logic but the logic of imperialist war, whatever degree of dislocation it caused. The provisional government continued to accept this, even when it was restructured to give ministerial posts to the ‘moderate’ socialist parties, with Kerensky as prime minister. ‘Even many left wing members of the provisional government secretly agreed with…[the] aims’ of carving out a new empire, including the Dardanelles and ‘satellite’ states in Eastern Europe.65

Continuity in military policy was matched by continuity in policy towards the empire’s non-Russian speaking peoples—more than half the total population. There were traditions of rebellion in Poland, Finland, parts of the Caucasus and, to a lesser degree, the Ukraine. The tsars had used repression and enforced Russification to try and stamp out any movement for self determination. The new government, fearful of losing markets and supplies of raw materials, continued this approach.

Tsarism had given the great landowners half the country’s land, and the old regime had used the full force of the state against any attempt to divide the large estates. The capitalist interests entrenched in the new government were just as hard-headed. Ministers might make speeches about eventual reform, but they insisted that the peasantry must wait in the meantime.

Their policies meant discontent would grow, with or without the Bolsheviks. No one had given the order for the February rising. In the same way, no one ordered the peasants to attack the houses of the great landowners and divide up the land throughout the summer. No one gave orders to the Finns, the Ukrainians, or the peoples of the Caucasus and the Baltic to demand states of their own. And no one told millions of peasants in uniform to desert the front. People who had seen protests topple a 500 year old monarchy did not need anyone to tell them they should try to solve other grievances, especially when many of them guns and had been trained to use them.



Harman, _People's History of the World_, pp. 416-417
#15194280
ckaihatsu wrote:You're conflating Bolshevism with subsequent counter-factional Stalinist nationalist consolidation and even *post-USSR* capitalist restoration -- kleptocracy.


Doesn't that, as well as the degeneration occurred in other Warsaw Pact countries, plus China, North Korea, Albania, etc., concrete proof that Bolshevism is very prone to decay into Stalinism or kleptocracy?

I even dare to say that, because of this, I have to see whoever still advocating Bolshevism nowadays with a skeptical eye.
#15194285
ckaihatsu wrote:You're making Lenin and the Bolsheviks sound downright *bourgeois* and *imperialist*, when in fact the Bolshevik Revolution *wasn't* geopolitical or territory-hungry as we're used to seeing with nationalist inter-imperialist (world) warfare.

Also Lenin was just reflecting actual mass *support* for revolution, with his formalizing leadership -- he was *not* the crazy-eyed power-mad carcicature that you're employing here.

I'll note that the Russian people had previously *overthrown* the tsar and feudal relations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1905_Russian_Revolution), paving the way for not just a modern nation-state (like England, the U.S., and France), but even *further*, to actual *workers democracy* over how industrialized workplaces were to be run -- a *proletarian* revolution.

You're conflating Bolshevism with subsequent counter-factional Stalinist nationalist consolidation and even *post-USSR* capitalist restoration -- kleptocracy.

You're doing a *disservice* to history with your out-of-history contextualizations, demonizations, and slandering.

like any other Moscow based crime cartel , Bolsheviks were the *imperialist*, thats why Koba is N1 in imperial Moscow today

Stalin More Popular Than Putin in Russia These Days - U.S. ...
https://www.usnews.com › News › Best Countries
9 May 2019 — A record 70% of Russian respondents say the late dictator of the former Soviet Union played a positive role for Russia, according to a recent ...
#15194299
Patrickov wrote:
Doesn't that, as well as the degeneration occurred in other Warsaw Pact countries, plus China, North Korea, Albania, etc., concrete proof that Bolshevism is very prone to decay into Stalinism or kleptocracy?

I even dare to say that, because of this, I have to see whoever still advocating Bolshevism nowadays with a skeptical eye.



By *this* kind of facile reasoning we could say that the U.S. *inevitably* dropped two atomic bombs because George Washington advocated independence and chopped down a cherry tree in a prior century.

This discussion topic is taking place right now at another thread, and my line is this:


ckaihatsu wrote:
Again, I'll uphold the line that Stalin was being *defensive*, geopolitically, versus the Allies' imperialism (in the Russian Revolution), then against Nazi imperialism (World War II), and then against Western / NATO imperialism (Cold War).



viewtopic.php?p=15194290#p15194290



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Also:



Marx had written in 1851 that ‘human beings make history’, but not ‘under conditions of their own choosing’. Those conditions, in turn, transform human beings themselves. Under the pressure of events Bolshevism was slowly turning into something other than itself, even as the Communist International crystallised into a cohesive organisation. That something was to be called Stalinism, although Joseph Stalin did not exercise real power until 1923 or 1924, and only attained absolute power in 1928-29.



Harman, _People's History of the World_, p. 448
#15194857
Modern Christians often like to ask whether you believe in Jesus or even worse, the even more vague amorphous and meaningless entity God. The real question to pose is do you believe in Satan. Christianity without Satan is Christianity in name only. Medieval / early modern Christianity had 2 really important fundamental doctrines.

1 Satan existed
2 Satan was bad

Now you might have thought that the overwhelming consensus and acceptance around these doctrines would have brought peace to Europe, when in fact it was the reverse. Everyone agreed that Satan needed to be opposed, so everyone just argued about who was with Satan. you're with Satan, no I'm not with Satan, you're with Satan. Everyone got down to fighting, murdering, torturing, silencing each other, because they were with Satan. Everyone agreed that Satan and all those who stood with or enabled Satan should be no platformed, Most everyone would have agreed that Satan should be banned from facebook and Twitter if they had existed back then. And most everyone would have agreed that those who argued that Satan shouldn't be banned from facebook and Twitter, should also have have been banned from Facebook and Twitter if they had existed back then. Historical note even mySpace hadn't been invented back then.

Nietzsche got it wrong. it is not the death of God that grieves us. It is not the death of God that leaves an inconsolable hole within us, but the death of Satan. Luckily though a few years after Nietzsche declared the death of Satan, Satan was reborn in the form of Adolph Hitler. So now our theological world view has 2 fundamental not doctrines.

1 Hitler lives (not literally obviously)
2 Hitler is evil

So the game begins again. You're Hitler. No I'm not Hitler, you're Hitler. Where I get into trouble is that I seek to both play the game, but also to expose the absurdity of the game. The you're Hitler no you're Hitler game is fun to play, I strive for excellence in playing, but I recognise that it has some very deleterious consequences. It was the same with Christianity. I'm sure if I had lived back in pre modern Europe with some reasonable level of education I could have had a lot of fun playing the you're Satan game. But this Theology came at a terrible, terrible cost.
#15195042
Negotiator wrote:So ... this is about poland, I guess ? Meh.

No. its about Marxist World revolution and Moscow imperialism ....
World revolution is the Marxist concept of overthrowing capitalism in all countries through the conscious revolutionary action of the organized working class.

Image

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_revolution
#15195044
Rich wrote:

Nietzsche got it wrong. it is not the death of God that grieves us. It is not the death of God that leaves an inconsolable hole within us, but the death of Satan.



Most that read Neitzsche never understand what they've read.

But you haven't read, much less understood, him...

One of the tricks in philosophy is knowing where the guy was coming from. In part, he was talking about what he was seeing. It was during this era that the West became largely secular. It is also called the Birth of the Modern.

Religion doesn't play a big role in Modern life, or Modern thought.
#15195180
late wrote:Most that read Neitzsche never understand what they've read.

But you haven't read, much less understood, him...

One of the tricks in philosophy is knowing where the guy was coming from. In part, he was talking about what he was seeing. It was during this era that the West became largely secular. It is also called the Birth of the Modern.

Religion doesn't play a big role in Modern life, or Modern thought.

It does, @late - it has just taken a secular form, that's all. Modernity is riddled with religious forms of thought.

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