Colin Powell.... - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Heisenberg
#15195132
Unthinking Majority wrote:Trump is a true low-class bitch.

He's a sopping wet country club gossip queen, and as long as we accept that's all he is, we should be allowed to entertain ourselves with his bullshit. Lol. ;)
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By Godstud
#15195134
Rich wrote:Jesus in Thailand you're not even allowed to criticise the Royal Families pets imagine you want to make serious criticisms of the Thai security state. If the press get completely out of hand they can just have another coup and introduce marital law.
This alone shows how little you really know about Thailand and how much you are talking out of your ass. You know nothing about how Thailand operates, aside from your stupid blogs and conspiracy nonsense that you bleat out like the true sheep that you are. I have neither the time, nor the crayons to show you why you're so daft.

Also. Thailand has nothing to do with Colin Powell. Childish.
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By colliric
#15195143
Heisenberg wrote:He's a sopping wet country club gossip queen, and as long as we accept that's all he is, we should be allowed to entertain ourselves with his bullshit. Lol. ;)


Yep. I agree. Give him back his platform.

Will help poor struggling Twitter stockholders anyway.
#15195146
colliric wrote:Yep. I agree. Give him back his platform.

Will help poor struggling Twitter stockholders anyway.

I think Trump should be permanently banned from twitter. He threw Pence under the bus on twitter for following the constitution 10 minutes after Pence had to be escorted off the Senate floor on Jan. 6. I think posts advocating the overthrow US democracy for your own authoritarian power-grabbing and US treachery should be worthy of banning.
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By Potemkin
#15195148
pugsville wrote:The Ends does not justify the Means.

The responsibility for Atrocities lies 100% with those that commit them.

You still haven't understood this whole "total war" shtick, have you @pugsville? @Rich is into that shit. Lol.
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By colliric
#15195160
Unthinking Majority wrote:I think Trump should be permanently banned from twitter. He threw Pence under the bus on twitter for following the constitution 10 minutes after Pence had to be escorted off the Senate floor on Jan. 6. I think posts advocating the overthrow US democracy for your own authoritarian power-grabbing and US treachery should be worthy of banning.


Twitter's current major support base consists almost entirely from it being the primary platform Cryptocurrency influencers use. Including Elon Musk himself. Restoring Trump will bring back some much needed variety. Since he was banned the Crypto accounts have basically taken over the platform enmasse.

When Twitter banned Trump, Elon Musk became the undisputed most famous Twitter troll. There should be more competition, not less.
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By Drlee
#15195162
Very interesting thread.

Colon Powell died. So immediately we have a discussion about:

1. Covid.

2. Donald Trump.

3. Donald Trump.

4. Goebels/total war.

5. Donald Trump

6. Thailand.

I was in the army when Powell was rising through the ranks but did not know him or work for him. I do meet several people who did work for him (or at least claimed to) and they were generally ambivalent about him. There is no doubt that he was a fairly intrepid soldier during the Vietnam war. Above average one could say. BUT:

There is a thing called the "Peter Principal". It goes something like this: "A person usually rises to their own level of incompetence". They simply get one too many promotions. A good colonel is not always a good general. God knows we have all see examples of this.

I fear this is what happened to Powell. So far we have avoided the elephant in the corner. Powell was black. And he was in the army at a time when the military was dying for black leader examples. Now I am only going to say this once, and I will not defend against those to stupid to understand what I am saying....I am not asserting that Powell achieved what he did solely because of affirmative action or similar sentiments. Just the opposite. I am saying that Powell could not escape being judged as the "black general....black Chief of Staff...Black Secretary of State."

IMO, as Secretary of State, Powell fell victim to his bringing the expectations of a general officer in charge of a staff, to the State Department where behavior was quite different. So did Powell lie? Obviously. But did he do it deliberately? Only possibly. Just watching his behavior as Secretary of State before 9/11 I think I saw someone who was just out of his element. He lacked the political savvy and diplomatic experience to function in the job as well as a more experienced diplomat might. So he got blindsided. And, like a good soldier, fell back on the only value he saw as universal.....loyalty to the system and particularly his boss. I think he sought Bush's favor far too much. This is understandable. It is, in my experience, highly unusual to find a senior officer who truly want to have his decisions questioned and certainly not made based on the opinions of his subordinates.

Then there was this. America desperately wanted him to succeed. He was calm and dignified in an administration that was, frankly, neither. I liked Bush and voted for him but he was the guy you want to have a beer with and not the guy you call upon to add gravitas to an event. Powell was the "classy" guy in the administration. We needed an affable though reserved uncle figure. We chose Powell to be that figure. We wanted him to be honest and I think he was. But he was, at best, careless with the Sec State job.

Then there is this. Everyone in government knew that the culprit was Saudi Arabia. Clearly we should have deposed the House of Saud if our goal was justice. But it was not. Saudi Arabia, for all the harm it has done the USA over the decades, is the devil you know.

The American people were crying out for blood and Saddam was a despot worthy of a Hollywood script. Nobody gave two shits about someplace called Iraq and the stories about rape parties hosted by Saddam's two sons were straight out of a B movie. So a half million Iraqis ate the big one because we were REALLY pissed. And Powell was dead in the middle of it. Could he, or should he, have stopped it? I doubt he could have. The US was going to pound someone into the dirt and all that was left was the choice of targets. Powell or no Powell, Iraq was toast.

So "the Good Back Man" was put up front. After all, to question him was first and foremost racist. (Particularly in those days.) Right? Powell gave Bush credibility and cover at a time when he desperately needed it and that was right in Powell's wheelhouse. Loyalty first. Everything else, after. Powell took one for the team.

I think he was a good man. He was an able soldier for sure. I am going to remember him as a good combat soldier and competent general. And because I subscribe to the Peter Principal, give him a pass on the rest.
Last edited by Drlee on 21 Oct 2021 03:49, edited 1 time in total.
#15195163
colliric wrote:Twitter's current major support base consists almost entirely from it being the primary platform Cryptocurrency influencers use. Including Elon Musk himself. Restoring Trump will bring back some much needed variety. Since he was banned the Crypto accounts have basically taken over the platform enmasse.

When Twitter banned Trump, Elon Musk became the undisputed most famous Twitter troll. There should be more competition, not less.


He's still actively trying to turn the US into his authoritarian anti-democracy. Who cares about who posts on twitter. Twitter is stupid. US democracy > twitter.
By B0ycey
#15195184
Unthinking Majority wrote: Twitter is stupid.


I don't disagree. But Twitter, like all of social media, has a purpose which can be infected by trolls and propaganda. And that is where we are at today. If Twitter was used solely to provide information or promotion for the user, then Twitter is useful. But given it is a haven for what can only be described as hate speech then it is indeed stupid. Trumps comments on Powell is why he should be permanently banned for Twitter if you ask me. He still hasn't changed and will use someone elses death for his own personal gain (I noticed the ponzi at the end of the message). When he was on Twitter, most of what he wrote was either wrong, hateful or propaganda. When people think that is funny, what happens is they actually justify it. They might not agree with what is written but at the same time they want it to remain for their own enjoyment. The problem is, not everyone will disagree with it. Alot will even accept it or become radicalised because of it. There is no doubt America is polarised right now. And that has only been made worse since Trump. There is a lot of talk about Bush/Cilnton being a shitty presidents and what not but what didn't occur back when they were in the oval office was an actual distain for the political parties they were in but in the policies they enacted. Trump has changed the rules. And he has done that because he knew how to use social media in a way to empower emotions which incidentally caused hatred.
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By Crantag
#15195186
I say, fuck Colin Powell, and I will say I pretty much agree with @colliric.

And I agreed with Member @Godstud, once he came around to essentially the same position.

What it is, I tuned into PBS the day he died (I was visiting my dad and he had on PBS), and all they could talk about was Colin Powell.

He might have been a good nice guy in his personal life, but I am not one for celebrating war criminals.

He bargained with the devil, he lied on behalf of his career ambitions, but he was an instrumental figure in lying the American public into the Iraq War, and there's no two ways about it.

I'd certainly sooner piss on his grave than celebrate his life.
User avatar
By colliric
#15195192
@B0ycey Trump is starting his own social network next year. TRUTH social, and his own Rightwing news network to go with it. TRUTH Network will probably be the name.

Yes the plan was for his news and social media network after all AND HIS 2024 PRESIDENTIAL RUN. So the fact he is actually going into News and Social media should be concerning for you anti-Trumpers because he's going to use those tools in his next Presidential run.

It's going to be publically listed so watch as 4Chan and WallStreetBets take it to the moon, stock market price wise, followed by "TRUTH Crypto". Lol.
By B0ycey
#15195195
colliric wrote:@B0ycey Trump is starting his own social network next year. TRUTH social, and his own Rightwing news network to go with it. TRUTH Network will probably be the name.


I don't have an issue with him creating his own platform. What annoys me is they (rightwingers) complain about being thrown off a platform for breaking the terms they signed up for. If Trump went on Parler, so be it.

But saying that Social Media should be regulated given the threat of propaganda, terrorism and hate. I do think if social media was put on the same terms as media outlets, most of the issues we have with trolling should resolve itself. And Trump on his own platform would then have to be subject to those laws.
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By colliric
#15195197
Those laws won't be effective, that'll just cripple the social media industry. You can't really regulate social media in the end, you just get people going to alternative networks or joining overseas social networks or "gaming the system" to still get their views out. You need a massive moderator budget to enforce regulation and they just don't have the money, it becomes financially more difficult for Facebook and Twitter. They still need to show significant profits and growth to shareholders and regulation traditionally crimps profitability as it drives users to alternative sources. Minimising and spending as little as possible on the Moderation budget helps the shareprice by increasing the revenue.

This is the reason they have to go with AI most of the time and that's quite a shit solution. Just ask Google. They've been trying to moderate YouTube and people just learnt how to game the alogrithm anyway. They introduced shadow deleting and uploader moderation, and it still didn't work hardly at all. People just "copied" went back and checked their comments were still up, made the required edits to get it on there, then "pasted".

Trump's new media business includes a technology sector. Yep he's probably going into Crypto too. Heck if Joe Exotic can do it highly successfully, so can Trump.
By B0ycey
#15195198
colliric wrote:Those laws won't be effective, that'll just cripple the social media industry. You can't really regulate social media in the end, you just get people going to alternative networks or joining overseas social networks or "gaming the system" to still get their views out.


Well you can do a "Great Firewall of China" and limit international 'Social Media Outlets' that won't enforce the laws you enact and ask people for better proof of identity to open accounts so you can be certain of who they are. It is the anonymity that trolls use to post extreme and illegal content so that makes things difficult for them if you ask for a $1 returned payment as proof of ID and such you will see some results from just doing that. You also have to make sure that Social Media outlets police all complaints so the platform would adhere to the law of the country they are in. So the bigger the platform, the greater your security costs I guess, but considering Facebook makes billions, no biggy IMO. So you can make laws that are effective as it happens. But the problem is Zuckerberg has ties to the Democrats and money talks. So the things that are needed won't be done due to self interest like always.
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By ingliz
#15195205
Drlee wrote:did he do it deliberately?

Of course, he did.

I watched his presentation at the UN and you could see how embarrassed he was to be seen spouting bullshit.

Around halfway - when it crossed his mind his credibility was fucked and he may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb - he seemed to say fuck it and made a better effort at selling the great lie.



:lol:
Last edited by ingliz on 21 Oct 2021 10:47, edited 1 time in total.
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By colliric
#15195208
ingliz wrote:Of course, he did.

I watched his presentation at the UN and you could see how embarrassed he was to be seen spouting bullshit.

At around halfway - when it crossed his mind his credibility was fucked, and he may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb - he seemed to say fuck it and made a better effort at selling the 'great lie'.


:lol:


I knew it was complete bullshit at the time as well. Just couldn't put the finger on why. And I thought at the time "even if he did have WMDs, he would have developing them in self-defence due to the yanks continuously threatening the middle east".

"I bet Dubya is getting revenge on Saddam for what he did to his dad back in 1991. Finishing Dad's business and settling his scores"

Turned to be basically right.
User avatar
By Crantag
#15195211
The Trump phenomenon is a product of the pollution in American society.

Trump can be a good congenial fellow, I appreciated his boxing commentary a couple months ago, and he can come off as a decent guy personally, but he shouldn't have been president.

And he's also a complete piece of shit, in ways. (Look up his deposition from the Epstein shit, or actually, I advise not looking it up.)

Fuck Trump but I mean, if I was a neighbor of his and I saw him walking his dog, I'm sure I would say 'howdy do', and we'd have a chat.

But, Trump's commentary on Powell was pretty much acceptable to me, especially given that I consider Powell a war criminal, who isn't really deserving of much respect.
User avatar
By Potemkin
#15195214
Crantag wrote:The Trump phenomenon is a product of the pollution in American society.

Trump can be a good congenial fellow, I appreciated his boxing commentary a couple months ago, and he can come off as a decent guy personally, but he shouldn't have been president.

[...]

Fuck Trump but I mean, if I was a neighbor of his and I saw him walking his dog, I'm sure I would say 'howdy do', and we'd have a chat.

The same could be said for Affable Al, @Crantag....

Image
What a stand-up guy! :up: :D

Seriously, by all accounts Al Capone was the life and soul of the party, a great guy if you met him socially. So long as you didn't call him 'Scarface'....

By Rich
#15195216
Potemkin wrote:You still haven't understood this whole "total war" shtick, have you @pugsville? @Rich is into that shit. Lol.

I'm not sure if you're missing what I have been saying. Maybe I haven't been clear. But one of my key points is that liberal democracies should not be in the anti insurgency terror game. If that's what you mean by total war then the western democracies should avoid it like the plague.

I mean never mind Vietnam, never mind Aden, Malaya or Cyprus, conflicts the average anti American Liberal doesn't even seem to have heard of. Never mind all that recent shit. Did we learn nothing from the Boer war? The Boer war was a public relations disaster. What has got better since the Boer war? What has got easier since the Boer war?

As I said can anyone think of one thing that was going to be easier for western Liberal Democracy soldiers in conducting counter insurgency in Vietnam than it was in South Africa? Cos I can think of a whole lot of things that were going to be more difficult. What were the decision makers thinking sending half trained conscripts into Vietnam to do counter insurgency? Were they out of their minds? Were they high on drugs? Sending conscripts into Vietnam to do counter insurgency was like giving the unemployed a 6 week refesher skills course and then sending them off to do brain surgery. its actually worse than that because the Liberals running this shit show actually saw Vietnam as a jobs programme for men with learning difficulties. I mean really you just can't make this stuff up.

So no I don't buy the individual responsibility bullshit. I couldn't care less about the character of Lieutenant Calley, any-more than I care about the character, individual psychology or personal ethics of Lynndie England.
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By Crantag
#15195245
Potemkin wrote:The same could be said for Affable Al, @Crantag....

Image
What a stand-up guy! :up: :D

Seriously, by all accounts Al Capone was the life and soul of the party, a great guy if you met him socially. So long as you didn't call him 'Scarface'....


I regret that I never had the good pleasure of consorting with that congenial fellow. ;).

I'm no Trump lover, but I'm no Powell lover either, was the point.

That Al, looks like a jolly good fellow though. :)
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