Marxist bandits started WW2 and Cold War in 1920. Lenin about taking Red Army to Germany, Poland - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15195392
@litwin ;

German National - Socialists were crushed by outstretched logistics , and 2 fronts long war . Grishka the Butcher killed more own solders (Moscow slaves) than Germans. I recommend you to read M. Solonin its free

http://www.solonin.org/en

my heroes are much cleaner than G. the Butcher for sure


I've read all sides of the relevant literature. In reality, I have found that there has been only one war, and that fought from 1914 to 1945. You want to side in your heart with the Germans, in some lunatic fantasy scenario against Slavs and against the Orthodox, so be it.

Image


I'm against all the Szlachta, but as befitting a Slav, the man was brave for the cause of his people, at least. Too bad the Poles have a Vatican and Germanic-induced inferiority complex; as Roman Dmowski once said; ''Poland, thy doom comes from Rome''

Now, i'll credit too that the Petrine and Romanov State was likewise Westernized and with an un-necessary ''inferiority complex''.

Time for Slavs to end this fratricide and the Westoxification, this form of Colonialism, from a West that is dying of it's own poison.
#15195398
Lenin clearly had advocated and supported the use of the Red Army to take the revolution to Poland by force but it is questionable if he would not have hesitated to employ this measure in the rest of Europe. This intention is not obvious from Lenin's direct quote: “We used every opportunity to go from the defence to the offence”. This author was a graduate student when she wrote this thesis and she overstretched her argument against Lenin, postulating that he was bent on taking the military campaign further westwards to Germany and England. Lenin would have hoped that the sovietisation of Poland may contribute to spreading the socialist revolution to Western Europe in the long run. The Soviet regime's ultimate goal was to ignite the socialist revolution in western Europe.

Even more importantly, for the first time, Lenin acknowledged that the Red Army offensive into Poland in July 1920 aimed not only at the sovietisation of Poland, but also at taking the military campaign further westwards, in
particular, to Germany and England.154

This intention was unknown to earlier historians working on the subject.155 Lenin believed that the Red Army offensive would ignite the spark of revolution across Europe, as it advanced, drawing fresh recruits into its ranks, as it had during the Russian Civil War.156 In this way, the Polish-Soviet War could be used as the initial engagement in a war against the capitalist Allied states, for the overthrow of the Versailles settlement, admitting,

This was a most important turning point not only in the politics of Soviet
Russia but also in world politics... now we said we have become stronger,
and we will respond with a counterattack to each of your attempts at
attack… you risk that each of your attacks will expand the territory of the
Soviet Republic.157

Lenin clearly acknowledged in the speech that he had advocated and supported the use of the Red Army to take the revolution to Poland by force and would not have hesitated to employ this measure in the rest of Europe, admitting, “We used every opportunity to go from the defence to the offence”.158 Warsaw represented the heart of the international imperialist system and the Polish-Soviet War was viewed by the Russian communists as a unique opportunity to influence politics not only in Poland, but also in Germany, Britain and all of Western Europe.159

150 R. Pipes, Unknown Lenin, doc. 59, p. 98; Pravda, 29 September 1920, published a concise version.
151 Ibid, p. 99.
152 Ibid.
153 Lenin criticised delegates at the Comintern Congress for their pacifist tendencies, ibid.
154 Ibid, p. 100.
155 For example, Davies argued, “The political purpose of the Red Army’s advance was not to conquer Europe directly. The Red Army of 1920 could hardly be sent with 36 divisions to achieve what the Tsarist Army of 1914-1917 had failed to achieve with 150. Its purpose was to provide a social revolution”, N. Davies, “The Soviet Command and the Battle of Warsaw”, in Soviet Studies, vol. 23, no. 4, (1972), p. 576.
156 He was out of touch with the reality of the situation, drastically
exaggerating the revolutionary potential of the working class in Germany and England, which he compared favourably with Russia in 1917.
157 R. Pipes, Unknown Lenin, doc. 59, p. 99. He admitted, “We in the Central Committee knew that this was a new, fundamental question, that we stood at the turning point of the entire policy of the Soviet power”, p. 97.
158 Ibid, p. 95.
159 Ibid, p. 100.
Last edited by ThirdTerm on 23 Oct 2021 00:03, edited 1 time in total.
#15195877
annatar1914 wrote:@litwin ;


....
Time for Slavs to end this fratricide and the Westoxification, this form of Colonialism, from a West that is dying of it's own poison.

too many words, you know that you Muscovites are not the slavs, your are the Mongols mixed with Finnish Moksha , and your idol Marx said it many times:

“Normans completely disappears from the stage, and the few weak reminiscences in which it still outlived itself, dissolve before the terrible apparition of Genghis Khan. The bloody mire of Mongolian slavery, not the rude glory of the Norman epoch, forms the cradle of Muscovy, and modern "Russia" is but a metamorphosis of Muscovy.”.

"“Muscovy was raised and grew up in a horrible and infamous school of Mongolian slavery "

and Ivan don't worry the slaves are untied well under the EU/NATO banner against your Asiatic MONGOL barbarity

Image

Image
The Soviet invasion of Germany included brutal acts of civilian murder, rape, and looting, seen as vengeance following Adolf Hitler’s invasion of the Soviet Union that left millions dead, including women and children.

Watch the video above to see how the missing watch ties in, and subscribe to Vox’s YouTube channel for more videos.


#15195881
litwin wrote:Marxist bandits started WW2

The treaty of Versailles ended WWI and started WWII. If you must blame someone for starting WWII. Blame America, France, and England for demanding such a needlessly punitive settlement.

(1) The surrender of all German colonies as League of Nations mandates.
(2) The return of Alsace-Lorraine to France.
(3) Cession of Eupen-Malmedy to Belgium, Memel to Lithuania, the Hultschin district to Czechoslovakia.
(4) Poznania, parts of East Prussia and Upper Silesia to Poland.

and

(5) Reparations that led to the Occupation of the Ruhr by French and Belgium troops.


:roll:
Last edited by ingliz on 26 Oct 2021 13:29, edited 1 time in total.
#15195885
litwin wrote:any comment on this ?


Wasnt the SU part of the Allies?

Even if the plan was to start revolution across Europe, WW2 was caused due to incompetence and nothing else. The mistake was letting Germany re arm and then letting them encroach when they had. And don't get me started on the Maginot Line where France forgot to fortify a fucking forest. Once Hitler knew the allies were more interested in peace, he knew he could strike. Stalin, no Stalin, it wouldn't have mattered. Germany wanted Germany back to where he believed it belonged and that meant confrontation.
#15195971
litwin wrote:too many words, you know that you Muscovites are not the slavs, your are the Mongols mixed with Finnish Moksha , and your idol Marx said it many times:

“Normans completely disappears from the stage, and the few weak reminiscences in which it still outlived itself, dissolve before the terrible apparition of Genghis Khan. The bloody mire of Mongolian slavery, not the rude glory of the Norman epoch, forms the cradle of Muscovy, and modern "Russia" is but a metamorphosis of Muscovy.”.

"“Muscovy was raised and grew up in a horrible and infamous school of Mongolian slavery "

and Ivan don't worry the slaves are untied well under the EU/NATO banner against your Asiatic MONGOL barbarity

Image

Image
The Soviet invasion of Germany included brutal acts of civilian murder, rape, and looting, seen as vengeance following Adolf Hitler’s invasion of the Soviet Union that left millions dead, including women and children.

Watch the video above to see how the missing watch ties in, and subscribe to Vox’s YouTube channel for more videos.




More lunatic racist boilerplate for your savage Fascist fantasies of revenge, Hitler-loving scum. You'll get yours.

Soon.
#15196810
... from 12 to 14 November 1940, Germany presented the Soviets with a draft written Axis pact agreement that defined the world spheres of influence of the four proposed Axis powers (Germany, Italy, Japan and the Soviet Union).[1] Hitler, Ribbentrop and Molotov tried to set German and Soviet spheres of influence. Hitler encouraged Molotov to look south to Iran and eventually India, to preserve German access to Finland's resources and to remove Soviet influence in the Balkans.[2]

Molotov remained firm and sought to remove German troops from Finland and gain a warm water port in the Baltic. Soviet foreign policy calculations were predicated by the idea that the war would be a long-term struggle and so German claims that the United Kingdom would be defeated swiftly were treated with skepticism. In addition, Stalin sought to remain influential in Bulgaria and Yugoslavia. ...

...., on 25 November 1940, the Soviets presented a Stalin-drafted written counterproposal accepting the four power pact but including Soviet rights to Bulgaria and a world sphere of influence, to be centred on the area around Iraq and Iran.
[4] Germany did not respond[5][6] and left the negotiations unresolved.

.... Hitler remarked to his top military chiefs that Stalin "demands more and more", "he's a cold-blooded blackmailer" and "a German victory has become unbearable for Moscow " so that "she must be brought to her knees as soon as possible."[7] Germany ended the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact in June 1941 by invading the Soviet Union.
#15196813
"
Lenin was convinced that the revolution should not only target Germany,
351b6469aa004ea5b101a9810fe8af79_900.jpg

but also the countries in south-west Europe. Six days after the decisive 17 July meeting he
telegrammed Stalin,
The situation in the Comintern is splendid. Zinoviev, Bukharin, and I, too,
think that revolution in Italy should be spurred on immediately. My personal
opinion is that to this end, Hungary should be sovietised, and perhaps also
Czechia and Romania."

" Marx argued that socialist

revolution must be the responsibility of the proletariat of each country and could not be

imposed from outside through the use of military force. The Red Army should, at most,

assist the efforts of the working class of the given country. It should not be used as a

decisive instrument in bringing about this change. Soviet plans to use the Red Army to

spread revolution to Poland, therefore, had to be kept secret.153




Even more importantly, for the first time, Lenin acknowledged that the Red Army

offensive into Poland in July 1920 aimed not only at the sovietisation of Poland, but also at

taking the military campaign further westwards, in particular, to Germany and England.154

This intention was unknown to earlier historians working on the subject.155 Lenin believed

that the Red Army offensive would ignite the spark of revolution across Europe,
"
#15196841
litwin wrote:
"
Lenin was convinced that the revolution should not only target Germany,
351b6469aa004ea5b101a9810fe8af79_900.jpg

but also the countries in south-west Europe. Six days after the decisive 17 July meeting he
telegrammed Stalin,
The situation in the Comintern is splendid. Zinoviev, Bukharin, and I, too,
think that revolution in Italy should be spurred on immediately. My personal
opinion is that to this end, Hungary should be sovietised, and perhaps also
Czechia and Romania."

" Marx argued that socialist

revolution must be the responsibility of the proletariat of each country and could not be

imposed from outside through the use of military force. The Red Army should, at most,

assist the efforts of the working class of the given country. It should not be used as a

decisive instrument in bringing about this change. Soviet plans to use the Red Army to

spread revolution to Poland, therefore, had to be kept secret.153




Even more importantly, for the first time, Lenin acknowledged that the Red Army

offensive into Poland in July 1920 aimed not only at the sovietisation of Poland, but also at

taking the military campaign further westwards, in particular, to Germany and England.154

This intention was unknown to earlier historians working on the subject.155 Lenin believed

that the Red Army offensive would ignite the spark of revolution across Europe,
"



And what were either Europe or the U.S. doing then, in the '20s, that was so hot -- ?
#15196902
ckaihatsu wrote:And what were either Europe or the U.S. doing then, in the '20s, that was so hot -- ?


great things,



meanwhile mongols juchi were worshiping to the Satan in 20s , trying to occupy our planet
Lenin´s satanists gang - Communist War On Religion​



Google Translate :
"On June 8, 1933, the secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Belarus Mikalai Hikala and the chairman of the SNC of the BSSR Mikalai Haladzed received a secret letter from Naravlyany district. "On June 2 (Sikorskaya village), Sikorskaya killed her 9-year-old child. She managed to eat some of her entrails, drowned her second child the next day and died of exhaustion." Narovlya chiefs tearfully finished their message: "Without the serious help of the republican center we will not be able to do."

"The situation was the same in the neighboring Yelsk district, as reported by the KGB in Minsk. In 200 families from 250 individual farms, children and adults swelled from hunger, 20 people died of weight loss in two months." In order not to see the suffering of a hungry family, Kolodiy locked his wife and three young children in the house, slammed the doors and windows, after which he disappeared, and Kolodiy's wife and two children had already died. Tikhonov's widow Ulyana left her three children to starve and went to an unknown place, ”the KGB officers gave horrible examples.
A special commission has left Minsk for Homel region to check the facts. On June 21, the Bureau of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Belarus recorded in the protocol that in the Yelsk and Narovlya districts the plague affected up to 60 percent of the population. People eat not only "lime leaves, heather, moss and chaff, but in some farms even cats, dogs and horse carrion." Comrades from the capital were forced to admit the fact of cannibalism: “In the village. Akopy… The wife of a poor man who went to work in the city, returned home and found her son Volodya dead, cut off the child's legs and boiled with sorrel. She ate sorrel herself and fed the second child . The next day she and her second child died. "
#15196939
litwin wrote:
great things,
Xf3_wefprMo


meanwhile mongols juchi were worshiping to the Satan in 20s , trying to occupy our planet
Lenin´s satanists gang - Communist War On Religion​

0GBpPEKxcM4

Google Translate :
"On June 8, 1933, the secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Belarus Mikalai Hikala and the chairman of the SNC of the BSSR Mikalai Haladzed received a secret letter from Naravlyany district. "On June 2 (Sikorskaya village), Sikorskaya killed her 9-year-old child. She managed to eat some of her entrails, drowned her second child the next day and died of exhaustion." Narovlya chiefs tearfully finished their message: "Without the serious help of the republican center we will not be able to do."

"The situation was the same in the neighboring Yelsk district, as reported by the KGB in Minsk. In 200 families from 250 individual farms, children and adults swelled from hunger, 20 people died of weight loss in two months." In order not to see the suffering of a hungry family, Kolodiy locked his wife and three young children in the house, slammed the doors and windows, after which he disappeared, and Kolodiy's wife and two children had already died. Tikhonov's widow Ulyana left her three children to starve and went to an unknown place, ”the KGB officers gave horrible examples.
A special commission has left Minsk for Homel region to check the facts. On June 21, the Bureau of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Belarus recorded in the protocol that in the Yelsk and Narovlya districts the plague affected up to 60 percent of the population. People eat not only "lime leaves, heather, moss and chaff, but in some farms even cats, dogs and horse carrion." Comrades from the capital were forced to admit the fact of cannibalism: “In the village. Akopy… The wife of a poor man who went to work in the city, returned home and found her son Volodya dead, cut off the child's legs and boiled with sorrel. She ate sorrel herself and fed the second child . The next day she and her second child died. "



Okay, so your yellow journalism aside, here's how that period of history went:



During the Russian civil war the Jewish communities of the Ukraine and, to a lesser extent Belarus, suffered the worst pogroms ever to take place in these regions. They were performed by various armed units: by the White Army of Anton Denikin, by troops of the Ukrainian Peoples Republic headed by Symon Petliura, by gangs of warlord atamans and "Green" insurgent peasants, and even by some Red Army units[2].

The Soviet government was able gradually to consolidate its hold on central Russia first and then to fight its enemies sucsessfully. The Allied intervention and the Polish invasion allowed the Bolsheviks to play the nationalist card. Worsening economic conditions, however, created mass social turmoil. This came to a head after the final defeat of organised White military forces in the autumn of 1920 with mass peasant insurgencies, such as the Tambov Rebellion. They were brutally supressed.[3]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Soviet_Russia_and_the_Soviet_Union_(1917%E2%80%931927)



We, in hindsight, could simply ask why the capitalists of foreign countries *invaded* in 1918, after the country had overthrown its tsar.



Lenin, and his Assistant Joseph Stalin embodying the Bolshevik ideology, viewed alliance with the capitalist countries of Western Europe and the United States as involuntary servitude of the proletariat, who was forced to fight the imperialists' war. As seen by Lenin, Russia was reverting to the rule of the Tsar, and it was the job of Marxist revolutionaries, who truly represented socialism and the proletariat, to oppose such counter-socialistic ideas and support socialist revolutions in other countries.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... %80%931927)
#15196945
ckaihatsu wrote:





We, in hindsight, could simply ask why the capitalists of foreign countries *invaded* in 1918, after the country had overthrown its tsar.

*invaded*what ? Moscow ulus collapsed in 1917 dont you know it ? the west tried to help Siberian, Caucasian , Finnish , Baltic independent states . its funny you hate westren imperialism but you are in love with oriental , despotic juchi IMPERIALISM! LOL :lol: commies so funny

#15196962
litwin wrote:
*invaded*what ? Moscow ulus collapsed in 1917 dont you know it ?



It's the *tsar* that collapsed in 1917:



During World War I, Tsarist Russia experienced military humiliation, famine and economic collapse. The demoralized Russian Army suffered severe military setbacks, and many captured soldiers deserted the front lines. Dissatisfaction with the monarchy and its policy of continuing the war grew among the Russian people. Tsar Nicholas II abdicated the throne following the February Revolution of 1917 (March 1917 N.S. See: Soviet calendar.), causing widespread rioting in Petrograd and other major Russian cities.

The Russian Provisional Government was installed immediately following the fall of the Tsar by the Provisional Committee of the State Duma in early March 1917 and received conditional support of the Mensheviks. Led first by Prince Georgy Lvov, then Alexander Kerensky the Provisional Government consisted mainly of the parliamentarians most recently elected to the State Duma of the Russian Empire, which had been overthrown alongside Tsar Nicholas II. The new Provisional Government maintained its commitment to the war, remaining in the Triple Entente with Britain and France. The Provisional Government postponed the land reforms demanded by the Bolsheviks.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Soviet_Russia_and_the_Soviet_Union_(1917%E2%80%931927)



---


litwin wrote:
the west tried to help Siberian, Caucasian , Finnish , Baltic independent states . its funny you hate westren imperialism but you are in love with oriental , despotic juchi IMPERIALISM! LOL :lol: commies so funny

j6WXtDtzRcI&t=207s



No, I'm not in favor of nationalist-constrained nation-states of *any* kind -- not even self-proclaimed "socialist" ones like North Korea.

That said, it wasn't the USSR that started the Cold War, yet we're living with the *results* of it even today, as with the existence of Cold-War-type countries like North Korea.

Do you have any take on tsarism or the Bolshevik Revolution?
#15196979
ckaihatsu wrote:That said, it wasn't the USSR that started the Cold War,

Yes it was. It was the Soviet jackboot that ground into the face of the Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia and then after WWII, Poland, Romania, Hungary and Bulgaria. And then your argument is we're not as bad as the Nazis. We aren't actively trying to genocide you out of existence. And its true the Soviets weren't looking to long term exterminate the Polish people like the Nazis were. The Soviets may even have ended up subsidising the inefficient Polish economy with cheap energy and other raw materials.

But because of this we have to kiss your boots. Just because you're not actively trying to genocide us out of existence, we're morally obliged to grovel before you. Because you Communists are not content with obedience. You demand that we constantly take part in obscene spectacles, where we the workers have to endlessly tell you communists how wonderful you are. I went to East Germany under Communism, there was no worker's power. The workers lived in fear, like children in a family of violent abusive sadistic parents. I saw the fear in the workers eyes with my own eyes. This is not once or twice, but every time, every Communist regime that has ever existed, has been about you Communists having total power and Communists following, arresting, interrogating, torturing, imprisoning and sometimes even murdering any ordinary worker who has the temerity to ask for a say in how society is run, any worker who wants to criticise you.

All this talk of workers power, of dictatorship of the proletariat, of workers soviets, of workers councils of workers control. Its all lies. Communists is about you the Communists controlling everything, while we the workers are degraded and humiliated, while being exploited and robbed so you Communists can create a vast parasitic bureaucracy.
#15196987
Rich wrote:
Yes it was. It was the Soviet jackboot that ground into the face of the Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia and then after WWII, Poland, Romania, Hungary and Bulgaria. And then your argument is we're not as bad as the Nazis. We aren't actively trying to genocide you out of existence. And its true the Soviets weren't looking to long term exterminate the Polish people like the Nazis were. The Soviets may even have ended up subsidising the inefficient Polish economy with cheap energy and other raw materials.

But because of this we have to kiss your boots. Just because you're not actively trying to genocide us out of existence, we're morally obliged to grovel before you. Because you Communists are not content with obedience. You demand that we constantly take part in obscene spectacles, where we the workers have to endlessly tell you communists how wonderful you are. I went to East Germany under Communism, there was no worker's power. The workers lived in fear, like children in a family of violent abusive sadistic parents. I saw the fear in the workers eyes with my own eyes. This is not once or twice, but every time, every Communist regime that has ever existed, has been about you Communists having total power and Communists following, arresting, interrogating, torturing, imprisoning and sometimes even murdering any ordinary worker who has the temerity to ask for a say in how society is run, any worker who wants to criticise you.

All this talk of workers power, of dictatorship of the proletariat, of workers soviets, of workers councils of workers control. Its all lies. Communists is about you the Communists controlling everything, while we the workers are degraded and humiliated, while being exploited and robbed so you Communists can create a vast parasitic bureaucracy.



Well, all I can do is speak for *myself*, then -- I do think that the world's working class is collectively capable of mass-administrating *all* of social production. (I call such potential post-capitalist co-workers, 'co-administrators', to reflect that sense / politics of distributed socio-political power and decision-making, based on the truly-collectivized workplace.)

Yes, we will all run into present-day Stalinists, and I don't second-guess your own personal political experiences.

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