Even our shoes are racist. - Page 10 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in the USA and Canada.

Moderator: PoFo North America Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#15195562
Pants-of-dog wrote:@XogGyux

No, I was not saying that addressing cultural appropriation will magically make colonialism go away. This is the second time I correct you on this strawman.

So what is it meat to address then? I am all ears :lol:

If you think Latinos do not extert dominance over Indigenous cultures, then you are not aware of the problems Indigenous people face in Latin America, nor do you understand how immigrants and people of colour can benefit from settler colonialism.

Oh, this is a new twist. So the black guy can wear a kimono because he is not culturally dominant. I come from cuba, we don't have dominance over anybody. I still don't get to enjoy the same freedoms as my black fellows? I have to suffer the same consequences because some other sort of latino is misbehaving in colombia? That sounds like some sort of rule that you just pulled out of your ass.
I am sure somewhere in the country there is a big native American that is "exerting dominance" over a weaker white guy, perhaps in a prison, or perhaps in some sort of fetish relationship... this does not count towards cancelling the "cultural appropriation card" for all natives? :lol:
Dude. Your arguments get sillier and sillier by the minute. I am only hoping that on monday you come clean and confess you have been drinking heavily.
cheers.
#15195567
Pants-of-dog wrote:No. You misunderstood.

I did not claim they could not elect their leaders. I claimed they cannot choose the method by which their leaders are chosen.

Please address my actual claim.


Go on, do elaborate here. My understanding is that the BIA would propose a template of a generic Constitution to the tribes, but they could and would change it as they saw fit and votes would be on the final text, not the template. That means they can of course choose the election system they see fit, just like the states do.

Pants-of-dog wrote:No. They cannot use their limited judicial powers to change economic laws. For example, they cannot set a system if contract law that does not incorporate capitalism as the USA does it.


I also don't see why this would be the case. Federal law has allowed tribal governments manage the natural resources of their territory for quite a while and would be surprised if there was a federal provision like the one you mention. Do you have any case law to cite on the matter?

Pants-of-dog wrote:Having a constitution does not mean that the nation enjoys sovereignty or autonomy.


You will need to provide proof to sustain this claim, and particularly that it applies to reservations.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Then please quote from them, like I did.


What do you want me to quote, exactly? It's a resource about the tribal constitutions.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Please note that the quote from your link directly contradicts your claim.


How so?

Pants-of-dog wrote:You obviously misread the article.

Please quote the bits that you think support this and I will explain them to you.


Maybe you could quote and make your case.
#15195569
XogGyux wrote:So what is it meat to address then? I am all ears :lol:


I was simply educating people on the contexts in which cultural appropriation usually occurs.

Oh, this is a new twist. So the black guy can wear a kimono because he is not culturally dominant. I come from cuba, we don't have dominance over anybody. I still don't get to enjoy the same freedoms as my black fellows? I have to suffer the same consequences because some other sort of latino is misbehaving in colombia? That sounds like some sort of rule that you just pulled out of your ass.
I am sure somewhere in the country there is a big native American that is "exerting dominance" over a weaker white guy, perhaps in a prison, or perhaps in some sort of fetish relationship... this does not count towards cancelling the "cultural appropriation card" for all natives? :lol:
Dude. Your arguments get sillier and sillier by the minute. I am only hoping that on monday you come clean and confess you have been drinking heavily.
cheers.


This is not clearly written, and seems to suffer from your lack of knowledge concerning Indigenous issues.

Do you know what settler colonialism is?

———————

@wat0n

I have already addressed your argument.

If you wish to believe that some court policy in the USA managed to end colonialism in the USA and Canada, feel free, It is logically and historically incorrect.
#15195572
wat0n wrote:So you won't defend your claims at all, despite getting material proof of the autonomy of Indian Reservations. Okay.


I am defending my claims.

I am no longer researching and disproving your claims for you.

For example, I am not going to disprove your claim that colonialism no longer exists in Canada because of US law concerning tribal courts. You are free to continue believing that.
#15195573
Pants-of-dog wrote:
This is not clearly written, and seems to suffer from your lack of knowledge concerning Indigenous issues.

?

Do you have a rank list of the order in which culture members can use other culture's products? Is this a rank order? or is it more like a paper rock scissors system?

What is not clear is how you arrive to the conclusions of what constitutes or not constitute cultural appropriation. It is almost as if you were making shit up as you go. :lol:

Do you know what settler colonialism is?

Interesting, let's throw in a little bit of "original sin" into the pot as well to see what we can cook. I guess everyone that has a little bit of British, Portuguese or Spaniard is forever cursed with the inability of using other culture's products.... :lol:
Ridiculous.
#15195575
Pants-of-dog wrote:I am defending my claims.

I am no longer researching and disproving your claims for you.

For example, I am not going to disprove your claim that colonialism no longer exists in Canada because of US law concerning tribal courts. You are free to continue believing that.


So your argument boils down to "well, it's your opinion, bro". Okay.

In reality tribal governments can manage their resources, and particularly their natural resources. Doesn't quite seem like settler colonialism to me.

But of course, another trait is that in the end the definitions of these terms ("settler colonialism", "oppression", etc) are changed as the postmodern identity politics obsessed person desires whenever the person desires too. It's why @XogGyux is having trouble understanding how to apply your concept of cultural appropriation, or more precisely why it offends you in some cases but not in others (since it can happen without any relation of oppression involved, this only matters to decide when it's offensive to some people).
#15195577
XogGyux wrote:Do you have a rank list of the order in which culture members can use other culture's products? Is this a rank order? or is it more like a paper rock scissors system?

What is not clear is how you arrive to the conclusions of what constitutes or not constitute cultural appropriation. It is almost as if you were making shit up as you go. :lol:


Interesting, let's throw in a little bit of "original sin" into the pot as well to see what we can cook.


I will assume that you do not know what settler colonialism is.

Since that is the case, it would be difficult to debate this with you.

———————-

@wat0n

Okay.

According to you, the Potawatomi have control over the land that Chicago is built on. Those are the Indigenous people of Chicago and if you are correct, they are in autonomous control of the resources there, meaning no one can use the land without their permission.

Again, if you want to believe this, feel free.
#15195578
Pants-of-dog wrote:I will assume that you do not know what settler colonialism is.

Since that is the case, it would be difficult to debate this with you.

Do you think you are debating?
From my vantage point, all you are doing is dodging questions and making terms up.
#15195585
XogGyux wrote:Do you think you are debating?
From my vantage point, all you are doing is dodging questions and making terms up.


Feel free to believe that.

If cultural appropriation does not exist, then the owner of Minnetonka should not have apologized for using Indigenous looking designs, logos, and otherwise profiting off the work and designs of Indigenous people who never got any money from the company.

That is the logical conclusion of your argument.
#15195588
Pants-of-dog wrote:Feel free to believe that.

If cultural appropriation does not exist, then the owner of Minnetonka should not have apologized for using Indigenous looking designs, logos, and otherwise profiting off the work and designs of Indigenous people who never got any money from the company.

That is the logical conclusion of your argument.

People apologize for all kinds of things. This does not mean they mean the apology. Furthermore, apologizing does not automatically make the reason they apologize for true. For instance "I apologize for all the extraterrestrials that I have killed". Just because I apologized does not mean ET exists or that I killed any.
Furthermore, someone might run into you and you might say "excuse me", that does not mean it was your fault you both collided.


That is the logical conclusion of your argument.

My logical conclusion:
If this is the caliber of your evidence.... you are in deep shit.
#15195589
Pants-of-dog wrote:@wat0n

Okay.

According to you, the Potawatomi have control over the land that Chicago is built on. Those are the Indigenous people of Chicago and if you are correct, they are in autonomous control of the resources there, meaning no one can use the land without their permission.

Again, if you want to believe this, feel free.


So your issue is that no one buys this type of irredentism, trying to turn the clock back in time (but only when it suits your anti-Americanism, as I doubt you'd forcibly relocate the Potawatomi who currently have reservations south of the Great Lakes region back into that region, let alone apply this reasoning to a certain island ruled by a communist regime)? Do you really want to get into that sort of discussion?
#15195591
XogGyux wrote:People apologize for all kinds of things. This does not mean they mean the apology. Furthermore, apologizing does not automatically make the reason they apologize for true. For instance "I apologize for all the extraterrestrials that I have killed". Just because I apologized does not mean ET exists or that I killed any.
Furthermore, someone might run into you and you might say "excuse me", that does not mean it was your fault you both collided.


So you agree that he had no need to apologize.

The negative economic impact to Indigenous communities is irrelevant because “cultural appropriation” does not exist.

—————

@wat0n

Again, if you want to believe that colonialism no longer exists, the Indigenous people control their land and resources, and US Tribal courts ended colonialism in Canada, that is your understanding of history.
#15195601
An example of cultural appropriation from before the term was coined/ in common use.

Chinese Developer’s Fake Sphinx Has Egypt Seething

They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but a Chinese replica of one of Egypt’s most famous icons has gone too far in the eyes of the Egyptian government.

Photographs of a nearly exact copy of the Great Sphinx of Giza in a cultural park in Hebei Province, which surrounds Beijing, have circulated widely on the Internet recently. To the ire of the Egyptian government, the Chinese developer has reproduced the imposing statue — part man, part lion — right down to its weathered appearance and damaged nose.
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=156918&p=14412772&hilit=china+egypt#p14412743
#15195638
Pants-of-dog wrote:Cultural appropriation can only exist in a framework where one or more cultures exerts dominance over another.

Then why not call out "domination over others" and stop wasting your energy on fashion critique?

I mean, if another culture designs a better shoe, I want the freedom to wear it. You can call that whatever swear word you want.

But in no way do I want a particular culture to dominate another one. That's now what I am signifying with my choice of footwear. I simply prefer a shoe over another one. Perhaps it is more comfortable, or less expensive.

You have inadvertently unpacked the bullshit meme that is "cultural appropriation" by the way... :lol:
#15195639
I wrote:But in no way do I want a particular culture to dominate another one.

Example:

Poutine is a Québecois invention, but it is now available all over Canada.

American tourist sites talk about "Canada's poutine" though it is not "Canada's" originally.

And English Canada has always dominated French Canada, since before confederation even. So the domination of Québec has provided English Canadians with some kind of culture they can appropriate in order to entice tourists from the USA.

This is the same process as Elvis Presley "stealing" African-American musical innovation. The problem isn't Elvis or English Canada - in my opinion. It is the domination of one group over another.

If African-American music hadn't been suppressed... if French Canada hadn't been suppressed... things would be better for these groups.

Vancouver restaurants serving poutine... white people singing rock and roll... are not THE problem. It is very superficial to blame the symptoms (as you are doing) rather than attacking the central problem of "domination."
#15195657
AFAIK wrote:An example of cultural appropriation from before the term was coined/ in common use.


If we followed @Pants-of-dog, this would not be cultural appropriation since China does not have a relation of domination with Egypt.
  • 1
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 10

They should have fucked off and not been fucking […]

I think, if the right-wing had its way, everyone […]

Don't Panic... The WHO

My understanding is that the dominant theory is t[…]

Kyle Rittenhouse Trial

Lmao I suggest everyone check out deranged Doug64[…]