The Wuhan virus—how are we doing? - Page 160 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#15198210
Pants-of-dog wrote:There is one study awaiting peer review that suggests that natural immunity is better for the Delta variant, but there are at least two major problems with it:

1. It does not account for the possibility of those with natural immunity being reinfected many times between the two diagnoses, and…
2. Only those who survived the initial infection were available for the study.


Only those who survive the initial infection?
You mean the tiny 99 % who have gotten COVID and survived?

https://www.clickondetroit.com/health/g ... -measures/
#15198217
@QatzelOk Tiny? :eh: Fuck off.

You consider 1 in a 100 people dying from Covid-19 to be tiny? That would be around 3.2 million deaths in the USA, alone, if everyone got it.

I really hope someone close to you dies from it so you can fucking learn something... . I doubt it, though. You're too fucking thick, and lack basic human empathy.
#15198316
Godstud wrote:Fuck off.

I think it's better to keep your brain functionning during a serious conversation.

So starting a post off with *fear words* means that you disagree.

The numbers of deaths were not pandemic level at all, no matter how many scare words you use. It changes nothing except the brain's capacity to process complex numbers. This is not a useful tactic on your part at all if *the truth* (real science) is your objective.
#15198325
@QatzelOk
The numbers of deaths were not pandemic level at all,


:lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol:
Note. Three line post.
#15198547
Igor Antunov wrote:What's happening?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/1 ... non-covid/


People die because it is a pandemic. Excess mortality in developed countries is around 15-30% while excess mortality in developing countries is over 30% beyond even 100% in some cases. And that is with the vaccine being available :/
#15198551
JohnRawls wrote:People die because it is a pandemic. Excess mortality in developed countries is around 15-30% while excess mortality in developing countries is over 30% beyond even 100% in some cases. And that is with the vaccine being available :/


These people are not dying from Covid. They're tested negative to the virus. They are dying from a sudden jump in cardiovascular events. Read zee article.
#15198552
Igor Antunov wrote:These people are not dying from Covid. They're tested negative to the virus. They are dying from a sudden jump in cardiovascular events. Read zee article.


See here is the problem. If your hospitals are packed with Covid patients and you can't provide any care besides emergency covid care then it is a problem and you have a lot more deaths than you should from other reasons also. Hence you need to look at excess mortality instead of just pure Covid deaths.

The fact that we stopped doing lockdowns is a direct cause for this issue. The reason for the vaccine was to keep people out of the said hospital or emergency care as I said numerous times. It does decrease hospitalization and death rates at about 1/10th of what it should be without it but if you have only 60-80% vaccinated then it is still a huge number that needs to undergo medical care and hospitalization. In essence having 100% vaccinated is basically 10% of all patients. With rates like 60% and 40% unvaccinated the number is then 46%. (1/10th is for Pfizer, i am not sure for other vaccine statistics but I assume Moderna is pretty close to that also and AZ is a bit worse perhaps 1/9th or 1/8th)
#15198683
JohnRawls wrote:See here is the problem. If your hospitals are packed with Covid patients and you can't provide any care besides emergency covid care then it is a problem and you have a lot more deaths than you should from other reasons also. Hence you need to look at excess mortality instead of just pure Covid deaths


Meme. This never happened. Anywhere.
#15198686
Igor Antunov wrote:Meme. This never happened. Anywhere.


I won't comment for any other countries but this happened for Estonia. Basically at some point we suspended all non-essential treatments and then had to put lockdown in place not to overflow. It was just a bit after the vaccine was approved.

So it is not a meme. For Estonia at least. One of my grandmothers had to get emergency care for an essential problem but they weren't able to let her stay for the night or a week which was the usual practice at that time.
#15198704
Igor Antunov wrote:Only thing under strain were ventilators. And those are only used for respiratory emergencies. Most of these people are not dying on ventilators.


As i said, having people in the hospital overcrowds the hospital and personal so they can't treat other people. My example about my grandmother is just an example of that. Just so you know, she died 2 weeks later. She was pretty old and pushing near 100 so it was her time but that treatment might have helped.
#15198722
You Lockdown Liberals remind me of Hitler in the bunker screaming and shouting at everyone about betrayal, blaming everyone else, blindly refusing to recognise the complete failure of your own leadership. You've had lockdowns of duration and severity way way beyond the fantasies of the most committed and optimistic authoritarians at the start of this. The lockdowns you've had in their length breadth and scope go beyond anything, anything previously experienced by humanity. We're now well into our second year of social distancing. You've had mask wearing for months after months after months. Again a length, breadth and scope unparalleled in the history of humanity.

Then there's testing yet again a programme of that is unparalleled in the history of humanity in its length, breadth and scope. Arguably its testing that is most dangerous and misguided part of your programme. Testing is making this virus worse over time not better. Normally there is selection pressure in favour of variants with no or mild symptoms but testing undermines nature's natural protective feed back loop.

And now vaccines. You're vaccinating way beyond what you were hoping for at the start. Teenagers even children are being vaccinated with gusto. Never in history have vaccines been created tested and distributed at such speed and scale. And after all this you not one jot, not one jot closer to defeating or eliminating this virus. Your hubris is unbounded. You vanity is unbridled. In imagining that some super mix of governmental policies, that if we were just a bit more authoritarian, if we could just trash people's individual liberties just a bit more, if we just put total faith in the scientific experts we would eliminate this thing
#15198832
Rich wrote:And now vaccines. You're vaccinating way beyond what you were hoping for at the start. Teenagers even children are being vaccinated with gusto. Never in history have vaccines been created tested and distributed at such speed and scale. And after all this you not one jot, not one jot closer to defeating or eliminating this virus. Your hubris is unbounded. You vanity is unbridled. In imagining that some super mix of governmental policies, that if we were just a bit more authoritarian, if we could just trash people's individual liberties just a bit more, if we just put total faith in the scientific experts we would eliminate this thing

People lost their common sense in North America, during the same time they lost their communities. Suburbanization is to blame for the lack of common sense we are seeing. Common sense require a commons - public conversations between different people from different backgrounds.

And we are seeing how fatal lack of common sense is now as well. The corporate-created mind.

Three generations of people listening to commercial memes (TV, Hollywood, Internet) instead of talking to a wide variety of neighbors and passers-by growing up... has created people who worship technology and products - and are scared of other people. These new corporate-sensed media drones "don't trust" humans - only technology.

And they will believe whatever corporations tell them, especially when they're scared and in need of some kind of leader (fuhrer) to use violence to get them back into a safe mental pen.

Whenever the banks go bankrupt and Jeffrey Epstein-types start getting arrested... it is time for a major psy ops or war. The guys in charge are feeling in danger, so it's let-er-rip! with the sheep-killing propaganda and fascist agit prop.
#15199972
The Omicron Variant (first detected in South-Africa) spreads like a wildfire. :-(

Scientists in Hong Kong believe the Omicron Variant can evade even vaccinated imune systems.


Fuck Fuck Fuck the World has not been vaccinated fast enough.
#15200224
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I'm either on time or really late, depending on how you look at it. I hope everyone in the US had a safe and wonderful Thanksgiving.

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So the new Xi (Omicron) variant shows up in Africa, and Biden* promptly takes the racist, xenophobic step (according to his own words) of shutting down travel with some African countries. So are those racist, xenophobic travel bans necessary?

South African doctor who raised alarm about omicron variant says symptoms are ‘unusual but mild’
The first South African doctor to alert the authorities about patients with the omicron variant has told The Telegraph that the symptoms of the new variant are unusual but mild.

Dr Angelique Coetzee said she was first alerted to the possibility of a new variant when patients in her busy private practice in the capital Pretoria started to come in earlier this month with Covid-19 symptoms that did not make immediate sense.

They included young people of different backgrounds and ethnicities with intense fatigue and a six-year-old child with a very high pulse rate, she said. None suffered from a loss of taste or smell.

“Their symptoms were so different and so mild from those I had treated before,” said Dr Coetzee, a GP for 33 years who chairs the South African Medical Association alongside running her practice.

On November 18, when four family members all tested positive for Covid-19 with complete exhaustion, she informed the country’s vaccine advisory committee.

She said, in total, about two dozen of her patients have tested positive for Covid-19 with symptoms of the new variant. They were mostly healthy men who turned up “feeling so tired”. About half of them were unvaccinated.

“We had one very interesting case, a kid, about six years old, with a temperature and a very high pulse rate, and I wondered if I should admit her. But when I followed up two days later, she was so much better,” Dr Coetzee says.

Dr Coetzee, who was briefing other African medical associations on Saturday, made clear her patients were all healthy and she was worried the new variant could still hit older people – with co-morbidities such as diabetes or heart disease – much harder.

“What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said.

South African demographics are very different from those in the UK. Only about six per cent of the population are over the age of 65. This means that older individuals who are more vulnerable to the virus may take some time to present.
Two cases of omicron in UK

The B.1.1.529 variant, now called omicron, was first identified in Botswana on November 11. It has now been detected in the UK as well as South Africa, Israel, the Netherlands, Hong Kong and Belgium.

It is the most mutated form of Covid-19 discovered thus far, with 32 mutations to the spike protein. Scientists are concerned that the mutations may allow it to evade existing vaccines and spread quickly.

Two cases of omicron have now been found in the UK, with two people in Essex and Nottinghamshire testing positive for the new variant.

UK officials are busy scouring testing databases for any further sign of the omicron variant, not least because there were many South Africans in the Twickenham area of south-west London for the England and South Africa match last Saturday.

South African scientists say omicron is behind an explosion of cases in the country’s Gauteng province, which is home to the country’s commercial capital Johannesburg and Pretoria. Cases have rocketed up from about 550 a day last week to almost 4,000 a day currently.

The UK, US, the EU and Israel have all suspended travel to and from South Africa and the five surrounding countries: Botswana, Eswatini, Lesotho, Mozambique, Namibia, and Zimbabwe. The UK Government added Angola, Malawi, Mozambique and Zambia to the travel red list on Sunday.

The Western travel ban has provoked anger among South Africans, with many claiming that they are being punished for having outstanding research institutions and being transparent about their findings.
#15200225
Sandzak wrote:The Omicron Variant (first detected in South-Africa) spreads like a wildfire. :-(

Scientists in Hong Kong believe the Omicron Variant can evade even vaccinated imune systems.


Fuck Fuck Fuck the World has not been vaccinated fast enough.


There are also report saying that symptoms are mild. I say let her rip, this is the new flu.
#15200229
Doug64 wrote:(political cartoon depicting Biden keeping unvaccinated people from working)


Their body, their choice.

And they chose the one that keeps them from working.

(political cartoon depicting Trump and Biden comparison on travel bans)


From what I can see, both are racist.

Is the racism the problem, or is it just the weird way you guys are blind to racism along partisan lines that is the problem?

So the new Xi (Omicron) variant shows up in Africa,


No.

It was discovered in South Africa.

But it has shown up in Australia, Belgium, Botswana, Britain, Denmark, Germany, Hong Kong, Israel, Italy, the Netherlands, France, Canada and South Africa.

Most of those countries are not in Africa.

and Biden* promptly takes the racist, xenophobic step (according to his own words) of shutting down travel with some African countries. So are those racist, xenophobic travel bans necessary?

South African doctor who raised alarm about omicron variant says symptoms are ‘unusual but mild’


Not to mention the fact that Biden did not impose travel bans on any white country with the new variant.

But US citizens tend to like travel bans. So, this may boost Biden’s popularity.
#15200230
Capitalism is good and I mindlessly repeat thought terminating cliches about how it's the greatest system ever except when it doesn't validate my deeply held and personal stupid beliefs. Such as when employers demand I be vaccinated or John Cena tries to appeal to the larger Chinese movie market. That's when the government needs to step in.
#15200273
Imagine if most Western leaders were moral vacuums who just listened to money, and imitated what other leaders were doing so they fit in. Imagine a world of McJob-seekers holding office and doing whatever corporations tell them to do.

What would that look like? This:

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