Men see the lost cause of dating (girls don't like men) will it actully cause society to fall apart? - Page 13 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15200654
late wrote:That's one way of saying you've got nothing to say worth saying..

I find it amusing that you believe all men are pussycats and that attitudes to women are changing.

In the year ending March 2020, the UK's Office for National Statistics (ONS) estimated that 4.9 million women had been victims of sexual assault in their lives.
Last edited by ingliz on 02 Dec 2021 22:12, edited 1 time in total.
#15200657
ingliz wrote:
I find it amusing that you believe all men are pussycats and that attitudes to women are changing.

In the year ending March 2020, the UK's Office for National Statistics (ONS) estimated that 4.9 million women had been victims of sexual assault in their lives.



I find it amusing you actually think you can understand me. My cat shares that delusion with you.

Let me help you.

Biology doesn't change much, and while things for women have gotten better, we still have trouble getting people to play nice.

A ways back in this thread, I asked someone what they wanted to actually do. You know, back in the real world? He didn't reply to that.

We don't have a good way to fix that, that I am aware of. Somewhat ironically, rape and privacy are inversely related. In some Asian cities, there is almost no privacy, it's not even a priority to them. People are jammed into small apartments, the walls are thin, and there isn't the sorts of things (like parks and woods) that people use here to get sexual.

We value privacy highly, and most women don't want the government invading their privacy to protect them. They also don't want to be restrained to protect them.

I share your concerns, and I am open to the idea of reform.
#15200658
Pants-of-dog wrote:I thought men should read it and educate themselves about how women see the risks of sexual assault.


Gee, thanks, I didn't know you were so aware of how women see the risks of sexual assault and felt the need to educate everyone else :roll:

Hope the piece from The Crimson will help to educate you and others how some feminists see men who spend their time spreading the word :)
#15200659
Stormsmith wrote:I think waton's post underscores a distinction between today's daters and those are off my age.

My early years were almost pre-internet. A girl had scads of time to get to know potential dates in the cafeterias at university before accepting a date. Today there is a lot of online dating and I expect the chance of meeting a guy, getting to know him, develope a sense of what he's like is somewhat more limited. Perhaps work-mates, but not all employers approve of this sort of arrangement. Hummm


Quite right. I will even risk laughter and go a bit further.

In the 60's one did not expect to have sex on any date not to mention the "third" one.

In 1970 43% of women reported less than one sexual partner when married.

Then there is this:

A new study has found that women with between zero and one sexual partner are the least likely to divorce later on, with women who had 10 or more partners emerging as the most likely to see their marriages end, according to the Institute for Family Studies.

Using data from the National Survey of Family Growth that was collected in 2002, 2006-2010 and 2011-2013, researchers observed these trends, with the potential ties emerging between the total number of sexual partners and matrimonial dissolutions.

"Earlier research found that having multiple sex partners prior to marriage could lead to less happy marriages, and often increased the odds of divorce," Professor Nicholas Wolfinger wrote in a blog post that announced the analysis. "But sexual attitudes and behaviors continue to change in America, and some of the strongest predictors of divorce in years gone by no longer matter as much as they once did."


Whatever.

But should we be all that quick to wholeheartedly endorse all of the changes of the last few decades? The rogue in most men wants to amass as much sex as can be done without blisters.

Suppose I change my tune a bit and put the onus on women to make sex a less common thing. I think the following:

Most single men have a mistaken impression of how much sex happens in a typical marriage.

Single and married men have at their disposal just about every possible kind of porn. And on these sites it is not classified as good or bad. It is just a selection in search. Look at any of the major porn sites and the selections are abhorrent to any but the most damaged. Yet the "thrill" is there nonetheless. In a list of most visited websites, a porn site ranked just below Netflicks and just above Amazon. And WAY ahead of Microsoft.com, Bing.com and Ebay. In fact there are three separate porn sites ranked higher than these. The open physical abuse of men and women abounds. In 4K.

So one of the things that women have "won" in the battle of the sexes is that they are, for a great many men, just too much trouble.
#15200660
wat0n wrote:Gee, thanks, I didn't know you were so aware of how women see the risks of sexual assault and felt the need to educate everyone else :roll:


Since I linked to a piece written by a woman, your accusation makes no sense.

But this woman obviously felt that men needed to educate themselves about this.

And this thread made me think that. And it keeps doing that.

So I will keep lining it in discussions like this.

Hope the piece from The Crimson will help to educate you and others how some feminists see men who spend their time spreading the word :)


I have no idea what you are vaguely alluding to.
#15200662
Rich wrote:This is the cultural Marxist status hierarchy:


This is the part where I knew it was going to get good, because cultural Marxism is a meaningless term made up by morons to basically paint their enemies as cartoonish villains. And in good form, you delivered on a bunch of meaningless rightwing talking points I'd expect from some low-rent podcast called Saviors of Western Civilization or something.
#15200709
late wrote:A ways back in this thread, I asked someone what they wanted to actually do.

I'd legalise prostitution, take it off the streets, and open cheap, clean, subsidized brothels.

I'd provide for the sex workers renting a safe workspace in these affordable establishments security, free condoms, and a comprehensive health plan.

I would make sex accessible for all regardless of gender, disability, etc.


:)
#15200716
ingliz wrote:
I'd legalise prostitution, take it off the streets, and open cheap, clean, subsidized brothels.

I'd provide for the sex workers renting a safe workspace in these affordable establishments security, free condoms, and a comprehensive health plan.

I would make sex accessible for all regardless of gender, disability, etc.




Sounds a lot like Germany, I don't have a problem with it. I wonder if it has helped in reducing sexual violence in Germany.
#15200725
snapdragon wrote:there are a lot of [wo]men out there who believe that by paying for a night out, they are owed sex afterwards.

I once went with a woman who took me out to a fancy restaurant, and she wanted sex. To be fair, we both wanted sex, but it got a bit weird. Halfway through what followed, she called her husband, told him exactly what we were doing and what we were about to do, and asked me to say hello. All the time, she had this smile playing on her lips. I couldn't work out whether it was some sex game she and her husband played, or he had done something to really piss her off.


:lol:
Last edited by ingliz on 03 Dec 2021 11:41, edited 1 time in total.
#15200726
ingliz wrote:I'd legalise prostitution, take it off the streets, and open cheap, clean, subsidized brothels.

I'd provide for the sex workers renting a safe workspace in these affordable establishments security, free condoms, and a comprehensive health plan.

I would make sex accessible for all regardless of gender, disability, etc.

I disagree. I support legalised prostitution, but I certainly don't condone subsidising it, if anything it should be taxed.

I spent a bit of time talking with a female sex worker a couple of years back, and before anyone jumps to conclusions, the only monetary transfer was her paying me. She said she worked with disabled people and she was very militant that sex work was something she did because she wanted to and was empowered and that it was not something that came about because of disempowerment. However I think she is very much a minority and for the overwhelming majority of women prostitution is not an empowering or self actualising experience. Prostitution should not be encouraged let alone be subsidised.

Conservatives, both male and female conservatives have a very horrible history, but I think radical feminists critique of the left has some merit. Seeing women's bodies as resource to be distributed by the state. As brood mares for gay male couples and the latest abominations of the from-male trans agenda, which is really about giving men more privileges.

My issue with feminists is that I'm no cuck. I'm not going to buy into their male guilt agenda when most feminists excuse and collude with the most horrendous patriarchy and misogyny. For example go back to feminist separatists of the Greenham Common Camp. They would claim that nuclear weapons and wars are the fault of men and without men there wouldn't be any wars or organised militaries. There may well be much truth in this claim, but its irrelevant. Our disarming would only have lead to the victory of the Soviet Union, which was more patriarchal than the West. Was there even a single female dictator in a Communist country. I have no doubt that Communist party men used their power to abuse women on an industrial scale.
#15200750
Decriminalization of sex work is a proven harm reduction policy, but it does not go far enough.

If we want to stop sexual assault far more often, it would be necessary to have a UBI or other similar mechanism to ensure that no one is forced into sex work for economic reasons.
#15200761
@snapdragon

I noticed you ignored my post in regards to a man and a woman having the first few dates with just a cup of coffee only. Why would you be opposed to this? I would think you would think this is a good idea given your previously stated worries of men "wanting sex in return for dinner.' Either side can easily bail at any time if one or the other decides they don't like the person or they can just both bail. Makes things easy and simple. Also, women are having more problems getting promoted at work because of the "MeToo" movement because men don't want to put themselves into a position to be falsely accused of sexual harassment or even have a hint of any impropriety. That way men can protect themselves from false accusations. Some claim this is illegal. If this is the case, then how can men protect themselves from being falsely accused? Sexual harassment is illegal too but it's easy to get falsely accused and to have your career ruined by a woman. Please tell me how can men win in this situation too?

What other choices do they have? There are situations that women misinterpret and make false accusations and a man's career is totally ruined afterwards. People want to protect their careers and livelihood. You do understand that? Right? I understand men who don't want to have discussions with women alone or have them with them on a business trip because they just don't want to give the appearance of impropriety. What is your solution to this problem to where men can be comfortable as well without worry of being falsely accused?

I would like to share an article with you and how the "MeToo" movement has actually strengthened the gender partition in the workplace and made it harder for women to get promoted because they can't network with men. Women are now facing an even stronger gender partition in the workplace in the aftermath of the "MeToo" movement as men move to further protect themselves from false claims of sexual harassment or the appearance of impropriety. Women were also having a hard time finding mentors that they need because of this. MeToo might not have created the gender partition, but it made it stronger. It's actually made it to where attractive women are less likely to be hired too in the aftermath of "MeToo."

Kim Elsesser of Forbes wrote:The unintended consequences of #MeToo just seem to get worse and worse. Initially, there was evidence that men were shying away from one-on-one interactions with women at work, including mentoring, one-on-one work meetings and socializing. Now, new research reveals women may be less likely to be hired for jobs where they are required to interact with men.

The new study found a shocking 21% of men and 12% of women report they are personally more reluctant to hire women for jobs that require close interpersonal interaction with men, like business travel. And these are just the employees that are aware of their bias—there are likely more that are unconsciously biased in favor of men for these jobs.

In addition, a bias against attractive women emerged. Almost one in five men, and about 6% of women report that as a result of #MeToo, they are less likely to hire attractive women. This research, soon to be published in the journal, Organizational Dynamics, is the first that has found that both men and women are altering their hiring behavior as a result of #MeToo.

These statistics are pretty staggering, so what can be done to reduce the backlash? Having more women around the workplace helps. The researchers describe that the more women that were present in organizations and workgroups, the less the backlash and negative attitudes they found. Ironically, the #MeToo backlash may be resulting in fewer women being hired, not more. Lead author Leanne Atwater and colleagues describe, “Our data suggest that rather than increases in the representation of women, decreases can be expected out of #MeToo fears.”


https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesse ... ing-women/
Last edited by tomskunk on 03 Dec 2021 16:52, edited 1 time in total.
#15200763
@tomskunk The only guys not hiring women because of fear of the #MeToo movement are the ones who would suffer from it because they are pieces of shit. It's not causing partition :roll: or any such nonsense amongst those who wouldn't normally sexually assault/harass a woman in the first place.

If a man's uncomfortable being alone with a woman then it's because he's afraid he's been an asshole and it might come back to bite him in the ass. You can easily avoid impropriety by not being an asshole.

Falsely accused... Rubbish! The cases of false accusations of sexual assaults are actually as likely as the false accusation of ANY crime. It's blown out of proportion because some men want to continue to be sexual predators, and so they pretend that they are the victims. The only people having their careers ruined are the ones deserving of it!

If an employer doesn't hire a woman because of fear of the #MeToo movement, then that woman probably dodged a bullet.
#15200767
@Godstud

You're very naive and put women up on a pedestal if you think some of them will not make false accusations, because some will and have ruined some careers. I got ocean front property to sell you in Arizona. There has been cases where they were able to prove that women made false accusations and they were successfully sued. Those guys were presumed guilty before innocent because "we should always believe women" but the guys had the proof to prove their innocence. If they didn't have the proof, they would have been doomed because you know a presumption of guilt until proven innocent.

Moreover, some guys spent 20 to 30 years in prison over accusations that were later proven false in cases of rape and were exonerated. Don't think innocent men have lost their jobs or lives over false accusations of sexual harassment or more serious sex crimes given the above is true and factual and undeniable. Good men should not be sacrificial lambs for the "MeToo" movement as you want them to be.
#15200768
It's a fact that the numbers of false accusations match that of other crimes. I'm not putting women on a pedestal, nor am I naive for stating facts. Your ad hominems are childish.

The rate of false accusations for sexual assault are around 2.5%. The rate of false accusations of all other crimes is about 6%.

Good men are not being sacrificial lambs. :roll: Hyperbole much?

tomskunk wrote:Moreover, some guys spent 20 to 30 years in prison over accusations that were later proven false and were exonerated.
Who? Source please. Then you can find out how many end up in prison for all sorts of false accusations and tell me why a false accusation of sexual assault is worse than the others.

If you fear the #MeToo movement, then it's likely because you are man who could get nailed by it for being an asshole sexual predator.


PS: If you cannot provide evidence that the #MeToo movement has caused instances of false reporting to increase, then you have NO FUCKING ARGUMENT!
#15200772
@Godstud

Here you go Godstud

Staff Report of Y-City News wrote:A young man who faced multiple rape accusations from three separate girls was cleared of all charges at two separate criminal trials this summer.

Khristian Suthers, now 23-years-old, is attempting to put his life back together after the false accusations placed him behind bars and stripped him of his freedom.

During the first part of 2020, Suthers was living with a relative who happened to be in a romantic relationship with another individual.

That partner had a young daughter who also lived in the residence with them.

The girl, her older half-sister, who sometimes stayed at the home, and a 16-year-old neighbor girl, who was friends with the two sisters, would all claim that Suthers raped them.

According to Suthers’ defense attorney, Keith Edwards, soon after the accusations were made the 16-year-old began changing her story and eventually admitted she was never raped. No criminal charges were ever brought against Suthers in that matter nor was the girl charged with making false statements.


https://ycitynews.com/22478/news/young- ... is-summer/

Here is a very recent case where it was proven that a woman made a false accusation of rape and was successfully sued for it.

Aodhan O'Faolain of the Irish Times wrote: man who claims he spent more than a year in prison after being wrongly accused of raping a woman who had previously fabricated a similar claim against another man, has sued various entities of the State.

The woman accused the man at the centre of the action of raping her following a party they, and others, had attended in February 2009. A large quantity of alcohol was consumed at the party, it is claimed.

The man, an EU national who currently lives in his native country, at all times vehemently denied the rape allegation. Arising out of her complaint the man was interviewed by gardaí and was released without charge. He was not interviewed again.

He also claims that the garda who took the only statement given by the complainant formed the opinion that she was under the influence of alcohol at the time she made the statement alleging rape.

The man returned to his home country some time afterwards and a year later returned to Ireland to meet his then employer. He was arrested and detained by gardaí and charged with rape. He was remanded in custody after being refused bail by the District Court on grounds that he represented a flight risk. He was granted High Court bail on condition that he reside in Ireland, sign on daily with gardaí and provide a €10,000 cash surety.

However, he was unable to meet those terms and remained in custody until June 2011. A few weeks before he was due to go on trial he and his solicitor were provided with a file regarding the previous fabricated rape claim made by the woman.
Frustration

Eighteen months prior to making the complaint against the man, the woman had claimed she was raped by an unrelated individual. She later withdrew this allegation and admitted that it was fabricated arising out of her frustration due to her history of sexual abuse, family problems and alcohol issues.

Consideration was given to prosecuting the woman for wasting Garda time, but she was not charged due to her personal circumstances.

Shortly after the man received the information about the complainant the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) entered ‘a nolle prosequi’ in his case, ending the prosecution and leading to his release from prison.

However, the man claims he suffered great harm due to the time spent in prison. His relationship broke down, resulting in a lack of access to his daughter, and he lost his job, he claims.

The man, represented by solicitor Adrian Shanley, has sued the Garda Commissioner, the DPP, Ireland, the Attorney General, and the Governors of Cloverhill and Midlands prisons.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-a ... -1.4733231

If women are going to make accusations against men, they need to have the proof and the evidence to back it up. There many, many examples of cases like this. I don't need to post them all to make my point. Moreover, there many cases where men were falsely accused of sexual harassment and lost their jobs because of a presumption of guilt unless proven innocent and it later turned out they were innocent.

Turns out the woman in one of the cases above who was making these false accusations was mentally ill, essentially, crazy. Which is why it's very important for a guy to be careful on the dating scene. Because you really don't know who you are dealing with when you first start dating a woman. Some colleges and universities are getting sued by some male college students for millions of dollars over false accusations. However, given the climate, it's best that men be very careful when interacting with women they don't know very well in order to save finding themselves in such a mess to begin with. Nobody wins but the lawyers in the courtroom, that's why you want to stay out of court.
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