Roe VS Wade officially goes back before the Supreme Court - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15200748
Godstud wrote:@Unthinking Majority Being pro-choice is not baby hating. I see you are indeed living up to your name in the "unthinking" part. :moron:

USA is likely going to step back 50 years and become a theocracy. Have fun, idiots!

USA USA USA! :knife:


The USA is in free fall as a superpower. Russia and China are playing our dysfunctional government like a cheap guitar. Now this week we find out that our vaunted technological advantage failed us again. Trump dropped the ball and Biden is not picking it up, it would appear.

Having said that. It is a mistake to think that this debate has anything at all to do with babies, fetuses, Planned Parenthood, or the like. It doesn't matter at all to those who can affect change either way. It is purely a political question.

The right has added to their groupies gun nuts, climate deniers, and anti-abortion single issue voters. (Among others.) These folks will vote for all Republican candidates because of their one issue and never anyone else. That is why you have people resorting to all kinds of ducking and dodging to somehow justify Trump as a good choice for president. He dog whistles the shit out of them. And frankly, when it comes to guns and abortion, his two choices for SCOTUS are going to pay off.

There is no "left" in the US. There really are not many liberals. These are terms the right has imposed on Democrats who belong to a center right party. Minorities are NOT less likely to vote for an anti abortion candidate. Gallup says that 50% of non-white Americans identify as pro-choice. Not nearly a big enough number. Women do identify as Democrats more frequently than men do by a few percent but women are notoriously unreliable voters. (Black women did the party proud in 2020 but who knows in the mid terms.)

For those in the courts and in government abortion is just another political calculation. We have representative government and they will follow the money/votes. As it should be.

Besides. Democrats are a complete disaster when it comes to messaging. They have no "heart strings" issues. And you have to admit that there is no greater heart-string issue than the killing of what a great many people call babies.
#15200749
[quote="Godstud"][usermention=23903]@Unthinking Majority[/usermention] Being pro-choice is not baby hating. I see you are indeed living up to your name in the "unthinking" part. :moron:

USA is likely going to step back 50 years and become a theocracy. Have fun, idiots!

USA USA USA! :knife:[/quote]


I fear it's worse than this.

An estimated 20% of r
ecognized pregnancies spontaneously abort. The numbers are considerably higher if you include guesstimates that include pregnancies that haven't been medically confirmed. These right wingers that are okay with stripping women of their right to abortions are one step away from challenging God's decisions. They have no problem re-writing government documents eg the constitution, so why not the bible. Why not hold God accountable, too?
Last edited by Stormsmith on 03 Dec 2021 15:33, edited 1 time in total.
#15200754
@Drlee

As tragic as it is true I'm with you on most points except "they will follow the money/votes. As it should be".

The US seems to be the archetype of how elites realise that dumbing down ones population makes it easier for them to remain in power, to not be challenged. Tax cuts, deregulations, worsening of workers rights and safety while undermining collective bargaining in anti-Union actions are their real focus while distracting the electorate with insignificant issues like this or the business regarding if CRT should be taught in schools. It's fearmongering directed against people who belive they are owed everything while doing very little to deserve it.

There are more fake guides, teachers in the world than stars. The real guide is the one who makes you see your inner beauty, not the one who wants to be admired and followed.


- Shams Tabrizi, 13th century Persian poet
#15200757
Rugoz wrote:I don't know why people make such a fuss about this.

In the vast majority of states abortion will remain legal and if you live in one of the religious shithole states, well, your fault really. It's not like the US restricts movement from one state to another.


Because human rights.

And in the USA, the right often gets voter support if they enact policies that strip rights from women and minorities
#15200758
Pants-of-dog wrote:Because human rights.

And in the USA, the right often gets voter support if they enact policies that strip rights from women and minorities


In practice rights are whatever the courts decide them to be. If anything the US should reduce its obsession with rights, because it simply empowers the courts at the expense of other branches.
#15200759
Rugoz wrote:In practice rights are whatever the courts decide them to be. If anything the US should reduce its obsession with rights, because it simply empowers the courts at the expense of other branches.


I would also include legislatures and government executive officers as well, when talking about who decides what rights are.

And this is why people "make a fuss" when these groups openly discuss taking rights away.
#15200762
Rugoz wrote:
I don't know why people make such a fuss about this.

In the vast majority of states abortion will remain legal and if you live in one of the religious shithole states, well, your fault really. It's not like the US restricts movement from one state to another.



In Miss. women of means can simply hop on a plane and go get an abortion. And they do.

Poor Black women can't do that. Women that can't get an abortion have much worse lives than those that can. Since the Black community is already poor, and has health care problems and issues, this is terrible for them.

Let me put that differently, until they can start killing them quickly again, the racists will have to settle for killing them slowly.
#15200765
late wrote:In Miss. women of means can simply hop on a plane and go get an abortion. And they do.

Poor Black women can't do that.


Not often I agree with Rugoz, but he is right when he says people can get the services out of state. The problem is, we are looking at it from what we have now and not what we can offer in the future. We haven't had a ruling as of yet and it maybe Roe vs Wade remains. But if it doesn't, I don't see why the Democrats and charities can't offer a service for these poor women in order to compensate their losses and a free shuttle service to get them out of state to have an abortion. There are solutions if Biden really does have an opinion on this and isn't just playing politics.
#15200766
@MadMonk
The US seems to be the archetype of how elites realise that dumbing down ones population makes it easier for them to remain in power, to not be challenged. Tax cuts, deregulations, worsening of workers rights and safety while undermining collective bargaining in anti-Union actions are their real focus while distracting the electorate with insignificant issues like this or the business regarding if CRT should be taught in schools. It's fearmongering directed against people who belive they are owed everything while doing very little to deserve it.


Every word of yours is true. I wholeheartedly agree.
#15200769
Rugoz wrote:
I don't know why people make such a fuss about this.

In the vast majority of states abortion will remain legal and if you live in one of the religious shithole states, well, your fault really. It's not like the US restricts movement from one state to another.



Rugoz wrote:
In practice rights are whatever the courts decide them to be. If anything the US should reduce its obsession with rights, because it simply empowers the courts at the expense of other branches.



B0ycey wrote:
Not often I agree with Rugoz, but he is right when he says people can get the services out of state. The problem is, we are looking at it from what we have now and not what we can offer in the future. We haven't had a ruling as of yet and it maybe Roe vs Wade remains. But if it doesn't, I don't see why the Democrats and charities can't offer a service for these poor women in order to compensate their losses and a free shuttle service to get them out of state to have an abortion. There are solutions if Biden really does have an opinion on this and isn't just playing politics.



Medicare-For-All could simply cover women's health care needs, and the health care infrastructure could be *expanded* so that poor women of color could have decent regular access to abortion, in whatever state they're in.
#15200770
ckaihatsu wrote:Medicare-For-All could simply cover women's health care needs, and the health care infrastructure could be *expanded* so that poor women of color could have decent regular access to abortion, in whatever state they're in.



You're preaching to the Choir my friend. The problem is every state may have different abortion laws should Roe vs Wade be quashed. What then? Increasing the Justices in the SCOTUS? More political mud flinging? Or merely offering transporting women out of state and solving a problem that way. Biden has options if the issue matters to him. My worry is that actually this issue doesn't matter to him and he is really just making the right noises for a political narrative to piss off the Republicans.
Last edited by B0ycey on 03 Dec 2021 17:29, edited 1 time in total.
#15200773
B0ycey wrote:
You're preaching to the Choir my friend. The problem is every state may have different abortion laws should Roe vs Wade be quashed. What then? Increasing the Justices in the SCOTUS? More political mud flinging? Or merely offering transporting women out of state and solving a problem that way. Biden has options if the issue matters to him. My worry is that actually this issue doesn't matter to him and he is really just making the right noises for a political narrative to piss off the Republicans.



The best argument I've heard is why hasn't there been *proactive* legislation to establish a woman's right to an abortion / health care, in all of these past decades since Roe.
#15200774
The best argument I've heard is why hasn't there been *proactive* legislation to establish a woman's right to an abortion / health care, in all of these past decades since Roe.


The answer is Republicans. Simple as that.

But do not forget. Abortion is not "popular" with most people. How could it be?

The Democrats and women's groups who are pushing the pro-choice agenda are doing a terrible job in not making the distinction that this is not about abortion and is about women's rights.

Now we have a generation or two who do not even understand the concept of privacy and who have willingly given up so many personal rights that they don't really see this as a problem.

I could, sadly, make a good case for asserting that abortion is going away because it appears to be what the majority of voters want. If this is the case, it would be hard to argue.
#15200775
Drlee wrote:
The answer is Republicans. Simple as that.

But do not forget. Abortion is not "popular" with most people. How could it be?

The Democrats and women's groups who are pushing the pro-choice agenda are doing a terrible job in not making the distinction that this is not about abortion and is about women's rights.

Now we have a generation or two who do not even understand the concept of privacy and who have willingly given up so many personal rights that they don't really see this as a problem.

I could, sadly, make a good case for asserting that abortion is going away because it appears to be what the majority of voters want. If this is the case, it would be hard to argue.



So then it's both the Republicans *and* the Democrats.
#15200780
ckaihatsu wrote:So then it's both the Republicans *and* the Democrats.



Yes. It truly is a tough choice for both though certainly easier for republicans. The democrats have to somehow make political hay on aborting 'babies'.
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