Men see the lost cause of dating (girls don't like men) will it actully cause society to fall apart? - Page 14 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15200804
@Pants-of-dog

Here, quoted from one of the articles:

"spent more than a year in prison after being wrongly accused of raping a woman"

What are you talking about Pants-of-dog. A year in prison before they finally figured out he was innocent. He was charged with a crime, otherwise, he would have never spent a year in prison. Did you really read any of the articles? Or do you just want to believe what you want to believe even if the facts prove what you believe is not in fact, true?

Here the article I put up states:

"Christian Suthers, now 23-years-old, is attempting to put his life back together after the false accusations placed him behind bars and stripped him of his freedom.
"

What part of "behind bars" do you not understand? You have to be charged with a crime before they put you behind bars.
#15200805
tomskunk wrote:@Pants-of-dog

Here, quoted from one of the articles:

"spent more than a year in prison after being wrongly accused of raping a woman"

What are you talking about Pants-of-dog. A year in prison before they finally figured out he was innocent. He was charged with a crime, otherwise, he would have never spent a year in prison. Did you really read any of the articles? Or do you just want to believe what you want to believe even if the facts prove what you believe is not in fact, not true?


Please quote the context.

That may ne referring to someone other than the two men featured in esch article.

Thanks.
#15200808
@tomskunk If you cannot provide evidence that the #MeToo movement has caused instances of false reporting to increase, then you have no argument.

Please provide evidence showing that the #MeToo movement has caused instances of false reporting to become more common. If you cannot provide evidence of this, then the whole "fear of the MeToo movement" nonsense is just that.

The only people who have to fear being reported(the same as it's always been), have been those men who abuse women thru sexual assault/harassment. The instances of false reporting are extremely low(lower than for other crimes, FFS).

Men who are suddenly fearing being accused of sexual misconduct(a blanket term I'll use) are still going to be the ones engaging in it. Nothing has actually changed, except for awareness, and some misplaced and fucked up perception from some men that they are being persecuted. :roll: The perps pretending they're the victims, in most cases.

If you aren't engaging in sexual misconduct, then you STILL have no reasonable fear of being accused of sexual misconduct by a woman. The rate of false reports is as low as it has ever been.
#15200814
@Godstud

I have provided evidence in those two articles but you are choosing to ignore it. You and @Pants-of-dog didn't even bother reading my articles. And I am not necessarily pinning it on a movement so to speak. Just pointing out that men have been falsely accused by women, jailed falsely for a crime they didn't commit, and have lost jobs and careers over false accusations. It's terribly naive to believe otherwise. You are being terribly naive. It happens and it's been proven to happen and my two articles illustrate it. You and @Pants-of-dog simply didn't even take the time to read both the article and just ignored them and are pretending they don't exist. And that's because they don't fit your preconceived notions of the presumption of guilt before being proven innocent. So you have been presented with the evidence you just choose not to read it and simply ignore it as if what was presented to you doesn't exist. It's there though, all you have to do is read it.
#15200816
tomskunk wrote:So you have been presented with the evidence you just choose not to read it and simply ignore it as if what was presented to you doesn't exist. It's there though, all you have to do is read it.
NO. That is false. You have not provided evidence that because of the #MeToo movement, that false reporting has INCREASED. You are mischaracterizing and misrepresenting what I have said.

Show me some statistics showing that false reports of sexual misconduct are on the rise.

DO IT.

What you have provided is nothing of the sort.

Considering how many sexual misconduct cases are dismissed out of hand, it's not surprising the seriousness that we take allegations of this sort.

Why are you defending the sexual predators? You do so when you make the claim that innocent men are suffering, when the cases are very rare.
#15200818
tomskunk wrote:https://ycitynews.com/22478/news/young- ... is-summer/


In this story, the man Saunders was accused of raping three kids.

He was charged and tried for two of those rapes.

The third one, for which he was not charged or tried, was deemed a false accusation. But he was in jail awaiting trial for the other two rapes, and not the false accusation.

From your link:

    During the first part of 2020, Suthers was living with a relative who happened to be in a romantic relationship with another individual.

    That partner had a young daughter who also lived in the residence with them.

    The girl, her older half-sister, who sometimes stayed at the home, and a 16-year-old neighbor girl, who was friends with the two sisters, would all claim that Suthers raped them.

    According to Suthers’ defense attorney, Keith Edwards, soon after the accusations were made the 16-year-old began changing her story and eventually admitted she was never raped. No criminal charges were ever brought against Suthers in that matter nor was the girl charged with making false statements.

Let us look at your next one:

tomskunk wrote:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-a ... -1.4733231


In this case, a man was charged with rape. He spent time in jail awaiting trial. The case was dropped by the prosecutors after they found out the woman had made a false accusation in another case.

This man, however, was not the victim of a false accusation, as far as the article mentions. He claims he is, but we do not know if his case was a false accusation or not.

So, in neither case was a man jailed or charged with a crime based on a false accusation.
#15200829
@Godstud

I am not defending sexual predators, I am defending the innocent and you just want to throw the innocent under the bus. FACT: false accusations do happen. You just don't want to believe that false accusations happen because you are biased and not fair or objective in your assessment of the situation. PERIOD. In MeToo, there is the challenge of proving innocence after a mere accusation. In the MeToo movement, everybody is guilty once accused until they are proven innocent. But that's not how things are supposed to work. It's supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. And a man should be able to assert his innocence when he is innocent.
Last edited by tomskunk on 04 Dec 2021 03:02, edited 1 time in total.
#15200830
@Godstud @Pants-of-dog

If you call a woman a liar, even if you didn’t do what you’re being accused of, you’re guilty of calling a woman a liar, so there’s no way out. If you don’t deny it, you’re thought to be guilty. If you do deny it, you’ve committed an additional political sin, so it’s a trap. Many in the MeToo movement assumes that those who are merely accused are guilty automatically or they assume they shouldn’t be asserting their innocence when they are indeed, innocent.
#15200834
Godstud wrote:@tomskunk The only guys not hiring women because of fear of the #MeToo movement are the ones who would suffer from it because they are pieces of shit. It's not causing partition :roll: or any such nonsense amongst those who wouldn't normally sexually assault/harass a woman in the first place.

If a man's uncomfortable being alone with a woman then it's because he's afraid he's been an asshole and it might come back to bite him in the ass. You can easily avoid impropriety by not being an asshole.

Falsely accused... Rubbish! The cases of false accusations of sexual assaults are actually as likely as the false accusation of ANY crime. It's blown out of proportion because some men want to continue to be sexual predators, and so they pretend that they are the victims. The only people having their careers ruined are the ones deserving of it!

If an employer doesn't hire a woman because of fear of the #MeToo movement, then that woman probably dodged a bullet.

I'll just throw it out there because fuck it, we are here to chat and shit, but (fuck, I don't want to name the year because time flies, but fuck it), back in 2008 I was working as a dishwasher at a pretty nice restaurant.

As a dishwasher, you get to sit in the back of the house and see all kinds of shit, but there was this one waitress, who maybe she'd been through shit, here nor there, but she seemed pretty hyper sensitive. Why do I say so? I heard her threaten one of the waiters with a sexual harassment claim, quite aggressively. I don't know why, and really I don't think it was necessary. There might have been a slight joke, which was probably not even about her. I knew the crew, and everyone was cool with each other, and she was just going off.

Subsequently, she got a different waiter fired, for a sexual harassment claim.

Funny thing was, I never got along with the guy, he was one of the few that I just didn't really see eye to eye with, but he was a good waiter, and I doubt he did anything wrong. It wasn't that kind of scene.

I actually ran into the guy in a bar a few days later. He was drunk as shit and upset. For once, we saw eye to eye, and chatted a little, and I gave him some condolences.

Is it possible the guy said something inappropriate? Yeah, it is possible, but I don't know that he did. I really doubt he pinched her ass or anything of the sort.

Like I said, as the dishwasher, I got to have a backseat to all of it, and I'd seen this chick call out another guy and threaten to do the same thing.

My real guess is she was hyper sensitive. Maybe she'd had some past trauma. Maybe she'd been indoctrinated with some shitty notions.

It wasn't a scene where a bunch of bad shit was going on, and the wait staff was too busy hustling to tables to have much time for a lot of banter, appropriate or not.

The worst thing I heard someone say in that place, was this (which is kinda funny, but was kinda awkward).


There was this fat dude that worked as a night auditor (and I eventually did too, and he trained me, and he was a really cool guy, and also very gay. He eventually transitioned to being a manager of the waitstaff).

The sue chef had long hair, his name was Brandon, and he was walking in the opposite direction, and one of the waitresses was calling for him for some reason, as if she couldn't see him. Someone said something like "he's right there", and she said "oh, I don't know him from behind."

To which the fat gay guy chimed in, "neither do I."

Uuggg

It's the sort of thing where, 'hey, no gay jokes if you are actually gay.'


But yeah, people have the ability to project their personal insecurities, with consequence, and women are no exception.

Having been there, I think that the woman got the man fired as an expression of her personal insecurities, and that sort of thing isn't right, and if you think that can't happen, you are very naive. Everything can happen, and everything does happen.

And that is not a nod to inappropriate behavior, much less sexual assault.
#15200836
Pants-of-dog wrote:For starters, you can clarify which of the two articles you are quoting from.

Jeeze man, he posted the articles. Each quote is from each article. It's okay to be wrong sometimes, just move on. One of the most annoying tendencies people exhibit, is the absolute inability to admit to being wrong or making a mistake. You display this in spades, and this is like the most glaring example you have presented of that. "Please cite evidence?" He posted the articles, and then quoted the pertinent phrases.

Yet, you are unable to admit to ever being wrong.

And granted, the articles are extreme examples, but hence why they are the stuff of articles.

Get a grip, dude.
#15200838
Godstud wrote:@tomskunk If you cannot provide evidence that the #MeToo movement has caused instances of false reporting to increase, then you have no argument.

And this is a great example of moving the goal posts to white knight @Pants-of-dog.

I get it is a charged topic, but let's try to be level headed about it, if we actually feel like discussing something seriously.

I do get it is a heavy topic.
#15200839
Godstud wrote:NO. That is false. You have not provided evidence that because of the #MeToo movement, that false reporting has INCREASED. You are mischaracterizing and misrepresenting what I have said.

Show me some statistics showing that false reports of sexual misconduct are on the rise.

DO IT.


That is a hard thing to have evidence on, because it is a nuanced question.

It is quite conceivable though. I don't know whether @tomskunk suggested that 'Metoo' has led to an increase in false accusations, but if so, it was probably a suspicion.

It is plausible it did.

It is very difficult to quantify such a thing.

The question he is providing evidence for is that false accusations do occur.

It makes sense that people are emotional over this topic though, sexual assault is not a pleasant topic.

@Steve_American made a good active thread, which has twisted and turned in various directions.
#15200842
Crantag wrote:Jeeze man, he posted the articles. Each quote is from each article. It's okay to be wrong sometimes, just move on. One of the most annoying tendencies people exhibit, is the absolute inability to admit to being wrong or making a mistake. You display this in spades, and this is like the most glaring example you have presented of that. "Please cite evidence?" He posted the articles, and then quoted the pertinent phrases.

Yet, you are unable to admit to ever being wrong.

And granted, the articles are extreme examples, but hence why they are the stuff of articles.

Get a grip, dude.


It is not a problem.

I read both articles carefully.

In the first one, the man was accused of raping three children. One of the kids then claimed to have made it up. He was charged and tried for the other two.

The false accusation played no part in his arrest, imprisonment, or trial.

In the second one, the man had his case dropped by the prosecutors because the accuser made a false accusation against another man. His case, however, was not shown to be a false accusation. So in his case, he also did not receive jail time or was charged because of a false accusation.

If you read the text he quoted, you will see this is the case.
#15200843
@Crantag
Is it possible the guy said something inappropriate? Yeah, it is possible, but I don't know that he did. I really doubt he pinched her ass or anything of the sort.


So "saying something inappropriate" rises to a firing offense? I suppose it could. We have somehow come to the conclusion that there is no place for expressing our sexuality in the workplace. Unless, of course, it means wearing makeup, a push-up bra, short skirt.....

I mean really. The idea is not to make the workplace sexless. It is to make it safe and healthy. We are going way too far.

At my age I can call anyone "honey" or and get away with it. People think it is either cute or awkward but frankly almost nobody thinks anything of it. (I do not do this often by the way.) The point is that the horrendous, life changing, debilitating events, like being told you are sexy....

As with the concept of rape, we do not make much distinction between a guy with a gun breaking into a stranger's apartment and raping her at gunpoint and two drunk people on a date when ones goes too far. My point is not the the later is OK. It is that it is nothing like the first.

So I honestly do believe that some boys are simply afraid to play with girls. It is obviously dangerous, the rules are muddy to say the least, and there are alternatives that have neither of the former issues.

Do you know what I think many women do not understand about men? They don't realize the extensive role that the imagination plays in male sexuality. Therefor they do not understand the power of pornography.
#15200845
I am not defending sexual predators, I am defending the innocent and you just want to throw the innocent under the bus. FACT: false accusations do happen. You just don't want to believe that false accusations happen because you are biased and not fair or objective in your assessment of the situation. PERIOD. In MeToo, there is the challenge of proving innocence after a mere accusation. In the MeToo movement, everybody is guilty once accused until they are proven innocent. But that's not how things are supposed to work. It's supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. And a man should be able to assert his innocence when he is innocent.
You are mischaracterizing and misrepresenting the goal of the #MeToo movement. It's not to make the rare false sexual misconduct claims, but to get the real ones.

The facts you seriously fucking like to ignore: #MeToo has NOT resulted in more false claims & false claims of sexual misconduct more rare than false claims of ANY criminal misconduct.

I never said that false claims do not happen, but you're inflating the actual numbers of these to push a narrative that #MeToo's goal is to victimize innocent men.

IT IS NOT.


As for the 'guilty til proven innocent' thing... well, given the history of society ignoring or turning a blind eye to sexual misconduct directed at women, it's simply how the pendulum has swung, for the time being.
#15200859
Drlee wrote:@Crantag

So "saying something inappropriate" rises to a firing offense? I suppose it could. We have somehow come to the conclusion that there is no place for expressing our sexuality in the workplace. Unless, of course, it means wearing makeup, a push-up bra, short skirt.....

I mean really. The idea is not to make the workplace sexless. It is to make it safe and healthy. We are going way too far.

At my age I can call anyone "honey" or and get away with it. People think it is either cute or awkward but frankly almost nobody thinks anything of it. (I do not do this often by the way.) The point is that the horrendous, life changing, debilitating events, like being told you are sexy....

As with the concept of rape, we do not make much distinction between a guy with a gun breaking into a stranger's apartment and raping her at gunpoint and two drunk people on a date when ones goes too far. My point is not the the later is OK. It is that it is nothing like the first.

So I honestly do believe that some boys are simply afraid to play with girls. It is obviously dangerous, the rules are muddy to say the least, and there are alternatives that have neither of the former issues.

Do you know what I think many women do not understand about men? They don't realize the extensive role that the imagination plays in male sexuality. Therefor they do not understand the power of pornography.

I found it totally horrible when the dude was fired.
#15200869
Godstud wrote:The rate of false accusations for sexual assault are around 2.5%. The rate of false accusations of all other crimes is about 6%.

These lies are endlessly recycled by the liberal media. No one knows what the rate of false accusations for sexual assault is. How could they possibly know? And what is a false accusation? Can it be less than 100% accurate? Consent or the lack of it is just very difficult to establish beyond reasonable doubt. Luckily consent doesn't come up in most burglary cases. "He said I could take his stereo your honour". Again with burglary I'm sure there are many false accusations, its just the repercussions of false burglary claims are just slightly higher premiums, it doesn't have the terrible consequences of as sexual assault accusation for the accused.
#15200871
Rich wrote:No one knows what the rate of false accusations for sexual assault is. How could they possibly know? And what is a false accusation?
By that yardstick how could they know the rate of false accusations of ANY crime?

They base it on reported cases. You don't think they already do that with every crime?

The consequences of sexual assault are far worse than the consequences of a false allegation. The two are not comparable.

Are you trying to imply that it's worse to be accused of sexual assault than to BE sexually assaulted?
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