UK will implement mandatory life in prison for killing police - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15199613
The UK is going to change the law so if someone kills a Police Officer (on or off duty), Paramedic, NHS Worker providing care, Ambulance worker, Fireman or Prison Guard, that person will get mandatory life.

This is because of the outrage after the PC Andrew Harper case, where a police officer tried to stop two thieving Travellers (aren't they all) and they dragged him down a tarmacked country lane behind their car for 91 secs at speeds of up to 40 mph, and you can imagine what that did to him. He died and the scum only got 13 years and 7 years.

But, while this law is born out of good motivations, it is not a good or very well thought out law.

The UK seems to have a strange streak combining being soft on serious criminals with, on the other hand, having very authoritarian laws. I believe this is a case of the UK flittering between those two extremes and having difficulty making up its mind.

This new proposed law does not even really make sense. If someone murders anyone randomly on the street they should get life in prison, shouldn't they? (Why would it matter that it was because the victim was a police officer?)
Why is a specific law needed?

There are some situations where the killing may not be a "cold-blooded" murder. Many criminals for example might shoot at police not because they are police but because they are in the process of trying to use force against the criminal. This is a form of "self defense" even if still not legally justified. In some of these cases, maybe the criminals should have the possibility of some mercy.

In my opinion, most people (including those who make the laws) are just not very smart, and all too often the thinking behind these laws seems to frame things in terms of "all" or "nothing". But that doesn't make for very good laws.


Mandatory life sentences will be introduced for offenders who cause the death of emergency services workers while committing a crime, the government has announced.
The law change is a triumph for Lissie Harper, who began campaigning after the death of her husband PC Andrew Harper in the line of duty.​

Offenders who kill emergency services workers to be given mandatory life sentences | The Independent
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/c ... 63140.html

This is a separate topic, but it's also very much an example of how liberal compassionate forgiving laws cannot ultimately exist for very long in the presence of high amounts of diversity and foreign migration. The society will lose its social cohesiveness and transform into a society that is more defensive and vengeful.
(If any of you have ever wondered why Latin American countries and the US have more punitive criminal laws than Europe)
#15199619
Seems like a good law to me. And I'm sure the emergency service workers do have to be on duty at the time in any case. You are talking about killing someone for doing their job and that is where any leniency comes to an end for me. So this is a safety issue. Nobody should be under threat or put under more pressure than needs to be in a place of work and if that makes people think twice when engaging with emergency workers and the actions they take towards them, then the law is totally worth it.
#15199627
Puffer Fish wrote:two thieving Travellers (aren't they all)

No! I can't speak about Gypsies, but not all new age travellers are thieves by a million miles. I've known quite a few in my time. Some of them are very conscientious and don't take alcohol drugs or tobacco.
#15200367
This is a human rights violation.

https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universa ... man-rights
Article 7
All are equal before the law [...]


Therefore you cannot treat the killing of a member of certain group of people differently than killing any other person.

Besides, "killing" includes:

- by accident
- out of self defense

So somebody defending their own life by shooting and killing a corrupt police officer in self defense would get a life sentence for that. Thats just completely retarded.
#15201070
ingliz wrote:It's bad law. It blurs the line between manslaughter and murder, and British judges have discretionary power to impose a life sentence for the lesser charge anyway.


:knife:

Hard cases make bad laws.
#15201106
Puffer Fish wrote:
liberal compassionate forgiving laws cannot ultimately exist for very long in the presence of high amounts of diversity and foreign migration.



Whoa -- where'd *that* come from?

You started with some kind of criminal justice topic, and then -- *wham* -- suddenly every migrant is suspect because they '[contribute to] high amounts of diversity and foreign migration' -- ?

Are you about addressing justice or is it *nationalism*, really -- ?

Justice, nationalism = equality, hierarchy -- time to pick a side.
#15201791
Negotiator wrote:Therefore you cannot treat the killing of a member of certain group of people differently than killing any other person.

Besides, "killing" includes:

- by accident
- out of self defense

So somebody defending their own life by shooting and killing a corrupt police officer in self defense would get a life sentence for that. Thats just completely retarded.



A bit misleading I am afraid.

Harper's Law still has to base on the fact that the death is the result of a crime, but the life sentence would be handed down regardless of whether the death is the intention of the said crime. At least "self-defense" simply does not exist in such cases.

The part I am skeptical is that criminals would actually be encouraged to be even more violent now that they would receive life sentence regardless of whether they intend to kill or not -- I suspect a good number of them would now think "why not I just intentionally kill them? It makes no difference to me and I could bring down some of whom I resent!"

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