The Gender Partition in the Work Place - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15201112
Rancid wrote:Good to hear. That said, seems like those in fear are those who have more to lose (i.e. people higher up in the company). Maybe these are guilty consciousnesses speaking. :eek:

Sidenote, I suggest you call all the women you work with "bitches".

I don't think that'll fly when I can't even say piss off to students

@tomskunk I tend to find that it's men who read to much into a woman's friendliness as flirting because men are more deprived of positive affirmations than women. So any sort of kindness can easily eacalate into she must like me and so then women soon learn to avoid being too friendly for risking unwanted attention.
Then they also feel pressures often to seem friendly and laugh at things they otherwise wouldn't.

I feel like the average woman isn't so precious and prone to taking any friendliness as harassment and that people aren't so easy to accuse because it is an uncomfortable process for everyone to address. Like the woman who laughs to get through an unwanted interaction, many will put up with things to not rock the boat. And with harassment it has to be continuous rather than one off mistakes, basically crossing inappropriate boundaries consistently.
In my role as a teacher I am more scared id a child lying because they are angry and have no concept of the seriousness of what they allege. But even that concern isn't heavy on my mind. People certainly take precautions with high school students such as never being alone with them.

Overall though I think there must be a way to analyze the fixation on this particular concern. Because while it is in the realm of possibility, having anxiety of it needs some basis for why there is a fixation on this particular thing.
For example a man who is fixated on whether his wife is cheating or not could still have a pathological fixation on the issue even if it turned out his wife was cheating. Because it points to something deeper as to why so much of ones mind ends up concerned with it. Why this occurs is that the truth of the events can become a means to justify untrue beliefs that are implicit.
#15201140
@Wellsy

That's all good and nice and all. But that still doesn't change the fact that women can read too much into the friendliness of guys either and think they are flirting with them. Hence, why it's best for guys to be careful that way they don't find their actions being misinterpreted. Personally, on the contrary, on the job, given you need your job to pay your bills (and a good reputation to get promoted or to get hired on to a different job when necessary), I think guys shouldn't be overly friendly because that can be misinterpreted as sexual harassment and you can lose your job and hence your ability to pay your bills and support your family. That's why guys keep women at arms length on the job. It's to protect themselves from misinterpretation. You can't go wrong with doing that and you get to keep your job and continue to be able to pay bills and support your family. You need your job and your reputation. Your family depends on you.
#15201155
tomskunk wrote:@Wellsy

That's all good and nice and all. But that still doesn't change the fact that women can read too much into the friendliness of guys either and think they are flirting with them. Hence, why it's best for guys to be careful that way they don't find their actions being misinterpreted. Personally, on the contrary, on the job, given you need your job to pay your bills (and a good reputation to get promoted or to get hired on to a different job when necessary), I think guys shouldn't be overly friendly because that can be misinterpreted as sexual harassment and you can lose your job and hence your ability to pay your bills and support your family. That's why guys keep women at arms length on the job. It's to protect themselves from misinterpretation. You can't go wrong with doing that and you get to keep your job and continue to be able to pay bills and support your family. You need your job and your reputation. Your family depends on you.

Yes everyone works to survive pretty much. I guess I'm not sure how friendly some men are with women as it's not much of an issue for me as I'm friendly but reserved so I don't necessarily become best mates with anyone but can get along fine and joke around. But I've only worked so many years and am married so I don't think I've been in a situation of being too close with a woman at work that it's been much issue I guess.
Anyone should be aware of how things may appear and especially in the work place it's best not to shit where you eat so to speak.

But the paper itself seemed also about the implication that men's aversion to women cost women opportunities for networking and career advancement to senior positions. What do you think would help men overcome their anxiety? Because it seems so far to be an affirmation of men's anxieties and to leave it at the impasse. Does the researcher make suggestions?
#15201176
I've never been a person interested in intraoffice or interoffice politics. If people want to get all nasty and be tricky, I prefer to stay out of it. I am at the office to do my job and get paid. I do not like to mess with people's heads. I don't like to flirt with anyone that would be unfair especially when I know that I do not find the people attractive. Why flirt just to flirt? It's just odd. So I am careful with what I say. People know I will listen though and I respond accordingly after watching their facial expression and listening to their language.

A promotion is nice but I would not cry my eyes out if a man got it over me. If it's meant to be, then it happens. I would never force something to happen. There are other opportunities in life. Also, it's always best not to get too grabby. The grass is not always greener on the other side.

I can get friendly with men but in the capacity of a friend. Like Reynor has realized that I'm a good listener and he enjoys our talks. He confides in me a little bit about his family life like he'll talk about his daughter or his father. There is some closeness but we both understand not to get to the TMI territory and we keep a lot to ourselves. It's a balancing act for sure, how to be friendly and yet not too friendly. Reynor probably thinks I'm pretty but he notices that as an artist would but he adores his wife and would never betray her. I know he would not hit on me. Even if I found him attractive, I would not hit on him either. I just see him as a work partner or sidekick. We can chat casually so it makes the work day feel less oppressive. We both love to find humor in life. I have his cell phone number but I know not to text or call unless it's an emergency.

From what I know, men take hints from watching women. If women give them hints, the men will respond to those hints. It's not a perfect system. Sometimes men think they are seeing hints when the woman thought she was not sending out any at all. So I know I have to be calm and be careful with my behavior and manner when I'm out in public. I do not drop hints. I usually act like I'm unaware of men around me unless I need to deal with them so that they know that I am not flirting and they have no effect on me. It might seem cold but this is what I must do to protect myself.
#15201188
@MistyTiger

I don't have an issue with a women being promoted into positions of power and privilege, so long as they are effective as leaders, get the job done and make the shareholders money. That's what you are there to do. However, the reality is, networking is necessary to get promoted. So, gender politics can get in the way of networking and getting more women who legitimately deserve to be promoted, promoted. So, I can see where this could be a tricky problem.

How does one solve this without men feeling they have to take risks just to communicate with women in the same professional way they would to a man? Cross gender interactions can be tricky sometimes speaking from the perspective of many men and it's not that they don't want to see women get promoted, they just don't want to be a sacrificial lamb either just for the sake of getting more women promoted who legitimately deserve to be promoted all over some sort of misunderstanding or misinterpretation. This doesn't seem to be a simple solution.

Gender relations both inside and outside the workplace can be tricky sometimes. It's not just gender politics, but politics in general can also get in the way of ensuring those who deserve to promoted, get promoted or get raises or overtime if they are working hourly. I have seen this sort of thing in workplace. In some cases, politics ensure people get promoted who do not deserve their promotions too.

I guess sometimes, you have to look out for number 1 because everybody wants to get promoted and nobody wants to be a sacrificial lamb. I guess this is why politics is so selfish, and sleazy, and yet funny to watch when you are not directly involved or when watching others interact with each other from afar.

Everybody looking out for number 1 and getting angry when they don't get what they want and somebody ending up being a sacrificial lamb when they may not always deserve to be that sacrificial lamb but ends up taking the fall for something that they shouldn't or don't deserve to take the fall for. Funny how things work. In a way, it can sometimes sort of be a game but with sometimes serious consequences depending on the situation.
#15202190
tomskunk wrote:@Rancid @Wellsy

But again, these are finding by an academic who studies these sorts of issues. Personally, even if I am not a boss, I do feel like I have something to lose. First and foremost, my reputation as a good person. That matters to me. Secondly, my job, especially if I like the job I am working in, even if I am somebody who is not a position of power. I value my reputation and my job, in particularly, a job I enjoy.

Given that is the case, sometimes you can be friendly towards a woman just to be only friends and nothing more and she could read too much into that and think you are trying to flirt or hit on her when you are not. Then, that's where the accusations could potentially fly and you're doomed. However, if you only interact with women in the workplace at the bare minimum level to where only when you absolutely have to and keep witnesses around, it makes it near impossible for her to level those accusations because there is always somebody else around to witness the interaction and if she were to try to say you were hitting on her, that other person can step in and say "I don't think that was his intent based on what I saw." You see what I mean, right?

And I am sure, there have been times where a guy has just trying to be friendly and not hit on a woman and she read too much into that and accused him and he was doomed. Especially if he didn't have any witnesses around. And if he does have witnesses around he could sue for defamation of character and subpoena those witnesses at the civil trial. This also why for single guys out there, I suggest a cup of coffee only for the first few dates with women. Because you might not really know that woman and if you have just a cup of coffee for the first few dates in a public place coffee shop, it would be hard for anybody to argue that a guy was buying a meal to get something out of a woman she might not want to give or that he harassed her because everybody was there witnessing the whole interaction themselves. You know what I am saying?


But read the actual research. It amounts to little other than straw pole of handful of guys she knows (20 guys , 10 she knew) It's not a strong piece of research.
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