Does "my body, my choice" apply to vaccines? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15201499
Unthinking Majority wrote:
I disagree. This isn't between pro-choice feminists and religious people

the 2 parties affected are actually pro-choice women (and male partners) and unborn children.

The ethical argument is one of right to life or right not to be killed after being created vs right to abortion of something you created within your own body. I am advocating on behalf of the unborn who can't speak for themselves and therefore have zero political power whatsoever.


And where do we draw the line for when is too late in a pregnancy to get an abortion? As you say, any line is scientifically arbitrary.



You are correct. It's a supermajority of Americans against a small minority of kooks.

Now you're lying. A foetus is not a child...

Another lie, it would have to be a person to be killed.

Already covered that, it simply has to be a compromise. Unless we're going back to the Dark Ages.
#15201501
Pants-of-dog wrote:Okay, but all of this os a criticism of how capitalism imposes obligations on us.

It is not an example of state actors depriving s person of body autonomy rights.


Nonsense. Non capitalist societies also impose an obligation to work to receive benefits, the obvious example was the USSR which made voluntary unemployment (which they labeled as "social parasitism") illegal.
#15201517
No, it does not apply to vaccines.

It's not about you but the fact that you can spread an infectious disease to the people around you. You are, without a vaccine, a public health risk. Were it simply a case of YOU being vulnerable to the disease, and it was not contagious, I would say that the "my body, my choice" thing could apply.

Unvaccinated people(by choice) are a threat to the society, as a whole.

An abortion does not affect people around the person who is pregnant. Pregnancies and abortions are not contagious. The fetus is within their body and under their control. It's the same as how I control my liver, kidneys and other internal organs. You cannot simply remove them without my say. "My body, my choice." applies.
#15201518
Unvaccinated people are not actually a threat to society at all.

Thats a complete utter total garbage nonsense when rapid and highly accurate home testing exists and costs less than $10 a pop and the one-size-kills-all treatment pill is literally about to hit the shelves.

"Fuck you I don't have it and I can prove it.... Here's my fucking self-test results from 20 mins ago, also the treatment pill exists anyway now"

Godstud is like the idiots that believe people that have had a few drinks are still illegally dangerous even when they've taken a negative breathalyzer test on the machine at the pub to prove they're under the limit and you're more dangerous to them than they are to you, because YOU HAVEN'T TAKEN THE DAMN TEST AND ARE DRUNK YOURSELF and are probably going to backseat driver them and create distractions the entire trip.

Here Godstud: https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/sho ... igen-tests

Buy some so you can be less of a d$#k to your unvaccinated friends and not do Religious Shunning on them anymore. At least give them a second option.

Drunk Drivers(by choice) are a threat to the society, as a whole.
(my own change to make my point)

Breathalyzers and police officers exist for a reason. So do rapid DIY testing kits and Pfizer's soon to be released prescription pill. But we must ABSOLUTELY STOP people from being allowed to go to the pub for a beer without having a passport first.
#15201532
Pants-of-dog wrote:Okay, but all of this os a criticism of how capitalism imposes obligations on us.

It is not an example of state actors depriving s person of body autonomy rights.


Capitalism doesn't make us need to eat or need housing, in the state of nature we still need to work to get food
and always have since the beginning of time.

We are also not entitled to other people's labour to provide us with food/shelter for free.
#15201536
Unthinking Majority wrote:Capitalism doesn't make us need to eat or need housing, in the state of nature we still need to work to get food
and always have since the beginning of time.

We are also not entitled to other people's labour to provide us with food/shelter for free.


And this has nothing to do with my claim.
#15201537
late wrote:You are correct. It's a supermajority of Americans against a small minority of kooks.

This has nothing to do with the ethics of abortion. Slavery also was pushed on a minority who were denied legal personhood by a supermajority. Slavery was banned because it was ethically wrong. 100% of non-black Americans could agree with slavery but that doesn't mean it should be legal or would be ethical.

Now you're lying. A foetus is not a child...

I've never heard anyone say "Omg i'm pregnant with Bob's fetus". It's easier to kill someone, or enslave someone, when you dehumanize them, because then people don't feel as guilty. This is what slave owners and Nazis did.

Another lie, it would have to be a person to be killed.

So personhood is bestowed upon a fetus by an invisible magic wand that's inside the vagina as the "fetus" slides out of the vaginal canal during childbirth? I thought you said any scientific determinations of such things are arbitrary.

Already covered that, it simply has to be a compromise. Unless we're going back to the Dark Ages.

How does a fetus, or a toddler for that matter, compromise for its own rights?
#15201573
@colliric There isn't a cure for Covid-19, and though there are many so-called "treatments", none are significantly successful. Very typical of you to make up falsehoods to push a stupid narrative. It's your go-to M.O.

Are you willing to take a test daily to show you aren't infected before going to work? If so then don't get the vaccine. I know, for a fact, that you have, so all this is just idiotic posturing from a right-winger pushing an anti-vax narrative that he himself doesn't truly support. :knife:

I have no unvaccinated friends. I don't make fools, and idiots, my friends. Dumbass.
#15201578
Yes, @wat0n. Would you rather get cancer(an example, only) and then take a treatment, or avoid cancer entirely if there was a vaccine? It is monumentally stupid to go with a treatment that's iffy, at best, than simply avoid the disease entirely.
#15201579
Godstud wrote:@colliric There isn't a cure for Covid-19, and though there are many so-called "treatments", none are significantly successful.


https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/202 ... ectiveness

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/08/pfizer- ... -says.html

You're ignoring the science.

Their CEO literally stated 89% reduction in hospitalisations was shown by the interim data in November and final data is expected to show the same results.

Godstud is ignoring the science when it is inconvenient for him. Even Pfizer knows Vaccine approach is not going to last forever. They're actually trying to stop it themselves (pills are more profits for them).

Iffy at best, Pfizer CEO "it's 89% effective against all Varient and we expect Omicron is no different".

Also you're a drama queen using cancer as an example when you know the Flu is the most similar disease, with Covid being only slightly worse.
#15201580
@colliric troll harder.

Your first source: Pfizer’s new COVID-19 pill will probably stop omicron, CEO says

Second source: Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said he’s confident the full results from the clinical trials will show that the oral antiviral pill, Paxlovid, reduces Covid hospitalization and death by 89%.

Bourla said he’s confident the full results from the clinical trials will show that the oral antiviral pill, Paxlovid, reduces Covid hospitalization and death by 89% as interim data showed in November.


The vaccine is far more effective at preventing hospitalization, than the treatment is. How about that little reality? Don't let that science escape you.

So it's not really passed peer-review yet, and is not even an option, and so is not SCIENCE, but supposition, at this point. read the fucking articles you post.

Again, would you rather simply avoid the disease, or pay for a treatment afterwards? The answer is simple to all but the most idiotic fools, or those who lack basic common sense.

All but free vaccine, or a potentially expensive treatment, after you get sick. Hmmmm.... :roll:
#15201583
Godstud wrote:The vaccine is far more effective at preventing hospitalization, than the treatment is. How about that little reality? Don't let that science escape you.


Number 1) That's also true for the Flu, yet no one gives a shit, because for most healthy people it's one bad day taking a couple of Panadol while in bed. We don't force Fluvax on everyone.

All but free vaccine, or a potentially expensive treatment, after you get sick. Hmmmm.... :roll:

Number 2) Are you forgetting I love living in Australia?

Universal Healthcare! It's all free(except I pay with my taxes)! I don't have to pay jack shit for anything except maybe a few bucks for the pills. It's only in America you have pay through the teeth.

I'm allowed to trust the CEO of Pfizer on this, they are after all experts in this.
Last edited by colliric on 09 Dec 2021 07:30, edited 1 time in total.
#15201589
colliric wrote:Number 1) That's also true for the Flu, yet no one gives a shit, because for most healthy people it's one bad day taking a couple of Panadol while in bed. We don't force Fluvax on everyone.
If 800,000 people died of the flu in almost 2 years, the flu vaccine would be pushed HARD. Such is obviously not the case, is it? You're ignoring the obvious in your blatantly stupid attempt to validate idiots not taking vaccines. Doesn't it hurt you to insult your own intelligence in this manner?

89%.... so even if this pie-in-the-sky prediction is true, you would still have a far greater chance of ending up in the hospital than a person who has actually been vaccinated. That number also doesn't tell you how long you might be sick for, or if you'll suffer long-term affects, does it?

You've been vaccinated, though, so you're not entirely stupid.

colliric wrote:Number 2) Are you forgetting I love living in Australia?

Universal Healthcare! It's all free(except I pay with my taxes)! I don't have to pay jack shit for anything except maybe a few bucks for the pills. It's only in America you have pay through the teeth.
Australians, in my experience, aren't the sharpest tools in the shed, and even the ones I know have gotten vaccinated.

You'd rather be sick and possibly killed, or die, from a disease for which there is a vaccine? :roll:

Also... you've had the vaccine. You've already accepted the reality. Don't be so fucking dishonest, and keep pushing something which you don't even fucking believe. :lol:

colliric wrote:I'm allowed to trust the CEO of Pfizer on this, they are after all experts in this.
Go see your family doctor. I'd bet he recommends you get vaccinated(which you already have been). Demonize Pfizer all you want. You ignore the millions of medical professionals who are telling you to get vaccinated... or don't they matter?

@Igor Antunov Do you actually read the articles that you post? :?:
Last edited by Godstud on 09 Dec 2021 08:13, edited 1 time in total.
#15201591
I had to keep the job to pay the damn bills. I had no damn choice, I cannot afford unemployment.

You're rich Godstud, you don't understand.

Yes it was 100% forced vaccine. I would NOT have taken it if the Dictator hadn't forced it.

You don't understand because you're rich, rich enough to tell people "oh it's really your choice". Bullshit. Bills must be payed, job must be kept. In practice there is in fact no choice at all.

You've already accepted the reality. Don't be so fucking dishonest, and keep pushing something which you don't even fucking believe. :lol:


You're rich as hell, living in a foreign country. You're the dishonest one. You know people have to pay bills and rent so must do things they don't agree with and wouldn't have gotten if it wasn't for Dictator Dan.

Newsflash: Poor people have to do things they don't agree with to get food on the table. That's why you don't judge sex workers or anyone else forced to do shitty work for a living. Can't afford to look for another job.
Last edited by colliric on 09 Dec 2021 08:18, edited 2 times in total.
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