Boris Johnson is done - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Rich
#15207978
I'm still confident that Boris will beat Spencer Perceval, but there does seem real doubt now whether he can beat Gordon Brown.
#15207979
Rich wrote:I'm still confident that Boris will beat Spencer Perceval, but there does seem real doubt now whether he can beat Gordon Brown.


Yeah Starmer had a reversal of around 35 percentage points in 2 years and now Labour is in lead.

From around -25 to around +10 to +15 right now :excited:

This is not even mentioning that there seems to be a soft deal between Labour and Lib Dems which under current rough calculations is 50%+ of the voter base.
Last edited by JohnRawls on 20 Jan 2022 11:43, edited 1 time in total.
#15207980
JohnRawls wrote:Yeah Starmer had a reversal of around 35 percentage points in a year and now Labour is in lead.

From around -25 to around +10 to +15 right now :excited:

This is not even mentioning that there seems to be a soft deal between Labour and Lib Dems which under current rough calculations is 50%+ of the voter base.

Boris Johnson has succeeded brilliantly in uniting the country... against him. :lol:
#15207981
Potemkin wrote:Boris Johnson has succeeded brilliantly in uniting the country... against him. :lol:


You can't deny Starmers achievement though:

1) Mainly that he managed to resolve the Right-Left divide in labour to some degree. I am not competent enough on the subject to make sure how but it seems to have died down a bit. Did he kill the left or did he integrate them or reach some kind of agreement?
2) Soft alliance with Liberal Democrats was unthinkable and impossible under Corbyn but it has materialised right now to some degree.
3) In general, the outcry against Labour has been reduced to a great degree which was a very big problem under Corbyn.
4) Attempts to create a more cohesive and acceptable policy has happened with focusing on some key points instead of posting huge promises that nobody can remember or understand. (Not sure about this one)
#15207991
Meh.

As long as they have as "opponents" the current "Labour" party there is no end of the Torries in sight.

Thatcher called Blair her greatest victory for a reason, and with Jeremy Corbyn out of the picture, the Blairites are running Labour again. So no matter what the brits vote, the Torries will effectively be in power either way. They'll just be called Labour sometimes.

Unless there is a new worker party, and everybody knows how hard/impossible that is in a majority vote system to install a new party into the duopoly.
#15207996
Negotiator wrote:Meh.

As long as they have as "opponents" the current "Labour" party there is no end of the Torries in sight.

Thatcher called Blair her greatest victory for a reason, and with Jeremy Corbyn out of the picture, the Blairites are running Labour again. So no matter what the brits vote, the Torries will effectively be in power either way. They'll just be called Labour sometimes.

Unless there is a new worker party, and everybody knows how hard/impossible that is in a majority vote system to install a new party into the duopoly.


There are two problems with this:

1) The problem is not the parties but the people who vote then. Ultimately it is the people who decide who will be in power so complaining that parties try to be more inline with what the electorate want is not a bad thing.

2) Times change so a more centrist Labour from the 90s is not necessarily the same as a centrist Labour in 2020s. The politics shifted a lot more to the progressive side in the last 30 years at least in the social aspect of things. Even in the economic aspect they are more left on average in US or Europe.
User avatar
By noemon
#15208007
Update:

Boris is refusing to let go hoping that things will die down, however the Tories are on a war footing to get rid of him. One Tory defected to Labour today, another quipped in parliament: "Be gone for the love of god".

The Tories figure that Boris is now toxic and needs to be replaced. Those on the left would rather Boris stayed, even if saying otherwise publically because there is clear evidence that the Tories under Johnson are sliding in the polls rapidly.

The Tory defection to Labour is a significant thing because it recasts Labour as a party where Tories are comfortable, greenlighting Tory voters to join up.

I think the only 2 real contenders are Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak. Rishi may not want to pick the Tory mantle now as hard times are ahead with several taxes increasing in April. Who knows though..., I think eventually it will come down to the 2 of them or we could even see Michael Gove becoming PM in a 'caretaker' capacity, he has been the go to blame guy since Cameron so it would make sense for him to act on blame 'caretaker' capacity but then the gamble is, will he be able to counter the rise of Labour in such a capacity?
User avatar
By noemon
#15208011
Michael Gove is the "best" technocrat/bureaucrat in the Tory line-up, he would be the right choice if the strategy of the Tories is to place a caretaker PM they can blame for everything, just keeping the engines running in idle while they try to put their house in order.

If the strategy is to play politics and spar with Labour then I think the best choice from the line-up would be Liz Truss.

Rishi enjoys the most popularity but he has not proven himself in politics and his Covid policies have been seen as too "socialist" by Tory members, there is a risk of legitimising Labour even further and sending even more across the aisle. Rishi risks making the Tories being seen as Blue Labour.
#15208012
noemon wrote:Michael Gove is the "best" technocrat/bureaucrat in the Tory line-up, he would be the right choice if the strategy of the Tories is to place a caretaker PM they can blame for everything, just keeping the engines running in idle while they try to put their house in order.

If the strategy is to play politics and spar with Labour then I think the best choice from the line-up would be Liz Truss.

Rishi enjoys the most popularity but he has not proven himself in politics and his Covid policies have been seen as too "socialist" by Tory members, there is a risk of legitimising Labour even further and sending even more across the aisle. Rishi risks making the Tories being seen as Blue Labour.


Are more Tory MPs gonna defect in the long run? When there is one, there are also others who are uncertain or afraid, that is for sure.

Is there any chance of a snap election? (Probably not right when Tories are fucked so much)

Who exactly is defecting? Are they the moderate Tories?
#15208016
Political Interest wrote:Some hardliners have defected as well.

They are not satisified with the handling of the pandemic i.e. lockdowns or Brexit policies.


I mean the one that joined Labour.
#15208021
JohnRawls wrote:I mean the one that joined Labour.


Well, it just suggests how close the policies of the Blairite faction of the Labour Party are to the Tories.

Maybe they are the more moderate faction as you suggest.
User avatar
By colliric
#15208071
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60047438

Seems like the conservatives are just going to force the country open again now. Good on them.

We must learn to live with Covid in the same way we live with flu


Boris's words, not mine. Oh and he's doing this to keep a hold of power because it looks like the party is lurching to the right again.
#15208101
Very nice of Boris to start blackmailing people not to vote against him in the leadership contest as per the latest news. Was this his plan for Post Brexit Britain all along? Questions, Questions....
#15208106
JohnRawls wrote:Very nice of Boris to start blackmailing people not to vote against him in the leadership contest as per the latest news. Was this his plan for Post Brexit Britain all along? Questions, Questions....


Standard practice in the Westminster System when a leadership challenge is imminent. He's hitting the damn phones and probably getting no sleep right now. Got to secure the numbers.
#15208113
colliric wrote:Standard practice in the Westminster System when a leadership challenge is imminent. He's hitting the damn phones and probably getting no sleep right now. Got to secure the numbers.


Blackmail is not a standard practice :eh:

Shoring up support and blackmail are not the same thing you know.
User avatar
By colliric
#15208115
JohnRawls wrote:Blackmail is not a standard practice :eh:

Shoring up support and blackmail are not the same thing you know.


Yes, but they can very frequently cross over. Especially when the Party whip is involved as appears to be the case here.

https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/im ... format=png

Appears to be a classic withdrawal of funding for future projects "threat".

Ditching all Covid restrictions must be popular in the UK now, since it's obviously his play to the public.
#15208120
colliric wrote:Yes, but they can very frequently cross over. Especially when the Party whip is involved as appears to be the case here.

https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/im ... format=png

Appears to be a classic withdrawal of funding for future projects "threat".

Ditching all Covid restrictions must be popular in the UK now, since it's obviously his play to the public.


Oh Boris tried many things already as I understand, but the rating is plummeting. This wasn't the first "attempt" nor it will be the last.
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