Ten Lies that Humanity is addicted to - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15207666
@Unthinking Majority Whataboutisms. No one is making a claim that the Chinese government doesn't do bad things.

Tibet was part of China up until 1913. In 1959 it became part of China again. For 46 years it was not a part of China. These are simply facts. I am sure that China re-annexing Tibet was not popular with everyone.

I am sure there are lots of Chinese people just as nice as the Dalai Lama. That's not an argument in and of itself.

Refugees from American wars(over 9.2 million from the Iraq Wars) are also in the streets alongside those people. Aren't they as important as a few thousand monks?
#15207687
wat0n wrote:Also, the idea that indigenous societies were always sustainable is nonsense. The example of the collapse of the Rapa Nui in Easter Island

That is the story of yet another civilization that killed itself. The simple formula that "indigenous = sustainable" is a fabrication of someone else's words, not mine. But settler-colonialism is NEVER sustainable. And the indigenous people who continue to exist around the world DO have lessons for humanity about sustainability.

Unthinking Majority wrote:We (and the OP in particular) romanticize primitive societies...
The word "romanticize' comes from the world "roman" which means book. It is WE who have the books, and it is WE who have narrative structures swimming around in our heads, instead of reality. So to apply "romanticize" is only accurate if you are saying that people have been warped by too many books. Too much text.

Library of Alexandria wrote:The Library dwindled during the Roman period, from a lack of funding and support.

Yet another Empire that destroyed knowledge in order to have squeaky toys.

Godstud wrote:China! The French in Africa! The Grinch who stole Xmas!!

What you are doing is another very effective style of lying, called "distraction." You have tried to take the thread into a direction that you would feel comfortable with - partisan fighting over superficial national bickering.

This thread concerns ALL OF HUMANITY.
#15207749
QatzelOk wrote:French are not human so they don't count! I can misquote everyone when it suits me because I can't make an actual argument.
Oh, I should have known that, since you always seem to think they are above it all, and they're the worst examples, anyways.

You always make distractions when you post, so I am going to ignore you, as you always do to others, and keep at it. As you said, since when does knowing about a topic stop you from yapping like a little dog.

The French are the worst examples of exploitive colonization that the world has seen in a very long time. Their legacy is death and misery, conveniently ignored by modern francophones in favour of a kinder, gentler narrative they have fabricated, to se their minds at ease.
#15207752
Godstud wrote:Tibet was part of China up until 1913. In 1959 it became part of China again. For 46 years it was not a part of China. These are simply facts. I am sure that China re-annexing Tibet was not popular with everyone.

That's not up to the CCP to decide. Tibetans aren't the property of the CCP, and they have a right to self-determination. Russia and China don't get to decide for other countries whether or not they should be a part of their empire, especially by using violence and intimidation. If California wanted to separate from the US and the US used violence against them to stop them you'd criticize the government in a heartbeat. I've never defended the Iraq War.
#15207776
I agree that people should have self determination, but that's not the world we live in, unfortunately.

I am not defending Chinese occupation of Tibet. I simply understand it and the reality.

Humanity is addicted to the lie that "The way we do things is the best". This is shown, repeatedly, throughout history.

If Puerto Rico were to claim independence tomorrow, you'd see US troops in there.
#15207840
Fasces wrote:And they say the West has no propaganda apparatus. :lol:

In a thread that attempts to reveal the lies that harm us, we have several posters desparately regurgitating various lies that they find important to preserve.

Let's make a deal: all the posters who are promoting various political lies in this thread should PM me their favorite lie. Be sure to choose a favorite lie that produces a lot of revenue for you and your buddies.

I will compile all these well-loved lies, and try to choose a few that we can collectively decide to define as the truthTM.

We will build a civilization around these lies and these lies alone.



Who's in? Godstud?

I ask because Godstud wrote:I agree that people should have self determination, but that's not the world we live in, unfortunately.

Since you don't have self-determination, can you please ask your masters for permission to reveal your favorite lie?
I'm sure they will let you reveal one or two...
#15207869
QatzelOk wrote:In a thread that attempts to reveal the lies that harm us, we have several posters desparately regurgitating various lies that they find important to preserve.

Let's make a deal: all the posters who are promoting various political lies in this thread should PM me their favorite lie. Be sure to choose a favorite lie that produces a lot of revenue for you and your buddies.

I will compile all these well-loved lies, and try to choose a few that we can collectively decide to define as the truthTM.

We will build a civilization around these lies and these lies alone.



Who's in? Godstud?


Since you don't have self-determination, can you please ask your masters for permission to reveal your favorite lie?
I'm sure they will let you reveal one or two...

#15207901
Fasces wrote:And they say the West has no propaganda apparatus. :lol:

Everybody shits on the West. They're far from perfect but somebody has to stand up for them because they're worth defending. Nobody is beyond criticism, but every single anti-westerner including the self-hating westerners can go fuck off.

BTW I have nothing against eastern culture or the Chinese people. Some of what the CCP does is even good, but overall they're a bunch of tyrants and bullies and can fuck right off too. And I'm well aware the US, UK have and do still behave like asses. George Dubya, Trump, Jinping and all the bitches in the world that abuse their power can all go suck it. We should be all for the little guy instead defending assholes who invade Iraq for oil and try to annex Ukraine and Taiwan etc.

The US government is filled with sociopaths. Just admit Chinese gov is too.
#15207962
Unthinking Majority wrote:Ask them why the Dalai Lama, probably the nicest and most peaceful man in the world, has lived in India for the last 60 years and why the CCP says they will be responsible for choosing the next Dalai Lama when he dies instead of Tibetan Buddhists. Ask them why I see Tibetan monk refugees walking down the street downtown in my city.


The Dalai Lama is a joke, sorry.

I'm all for a free Tibet, but that includes having a democracy, not a theocracy.

And the CCP wont succeed, because people wont accept whoever they come up with.
#15207963
Unthinking Majority wrote:That's not up to the CCP to decide.


Why, indeed.

But thats what historically happened, and Tibet is not exactly unusual either.
#15208003
Unthinking Majority wrote:Everybody shits on the West.

Here, what you mean is that everybody "criticizes" the West and its international interventions. This is what "shits on" means in your sentence.

Meanwhile, the West is constantly dropping tonnes and tonnes of things that are much more toxic than "shit" on other countries, and the West does this in order to maintain control of these "backyard" countries full of "backyard" people with resources that the West wants to devour.

By carefully selecting the most vulgar expression that you could find to describe "criticizes" (shits on), you have lied about the relationship between the Empire and its victims. You have accused the victims of being vulgar, rather than the Empire that kills everyone and steals everything. Even from much poorer people who need the resources for food and shelter.

The Empire (and most of its citizen-consumers) is addicted to this huge lie.

Image

I think your lie fits into OP Lie # 10

10. It costs vastly less money and is far more effective (and with fewer costs of every sort) to prevent crime by providing things like housing, nutrition, education, healthcare, retirement, and guaranteed income, than to attempt to deter crime through mass incarceration, capital punishment, and the use of armed forces to address addiction or tell people they are driving too fast.

This lie applies internationally as well as domestically.
#15208022
QatzelOk wrote:Here, what you mean is that everybody "criticizes" the West and its international interventions. This is what "shits on" means in your sentence.

Meanwhile, the West is constantly dropping tonnes and tonnes of things that are much more toxic than "shit" on other countries, and the West does this in order to maintain control of these "backyard" countries full of "backyard" people with resources that the West wants to devour.

By carefully selecting the most vulgar expression that you could find to describe "criticizes" (shits on), you have lied about the relationship between the Empire and its victims. You have accused the victims of being vulgar, rather than the Empire that kills everyone and steals everything. Even from much poorer people who need the resources for food and shelter.

The Empire (and most of its citizen-consumers) is addicted to this huge lie.


No, there's no issue criticizing western actions by their government and corporations etc. But there's a collective guilt by many westerners who feel they are "oppressors" and that indigenous and people in the 3rd world are the noble victims and their poverty is entirely or even largely a product of their victimization. This is the lie.

Obviously the west has at many times acted as oppressors, and many times the 3rd world and indigenous have been victimized by them. However, indigenous peoples and societies/governments in the 3rd world are just as and I would argue are even more brutal than the West. They aren't noble societies at all, at least not any more than the West. Indigenous peoples rapes, murdered, pillaged, and scalped each other's societies for millennia and also created their own empires (Incas, Aztecs) that were horrifically murderous, all before 1492. No different than Asians and Africans. West Africans also went to war with each and captured slaves in order to sell fellow Africans to the white slave traders for things like guns because they wanted to use those guns on each other. No other non-western society has any moral high ground to wag its finger at the west because doing so is hypocrisy. These are the lies we tell ourselves, that we're "bad"/"evil", and the lie YOU tell yourself is that indigenous primitive culture is more "noble". These are fairy tales. What's noble about more rape, murder, war, torture, famine, disease, infant mortality, non-existent sanitation, illiteracy? No society was behaving any better than the West when Europeans spread colonialism. Everybody on the planet was at war with each other and/or in alliances of war so you can't just cry "victim" just because your society lost. What a load of BS.

We're not any more evil than anyone else. We're all human. That doesn't mean we can't do better, or can't be criticized, or can't be held accountable. The West also invented human rights and legal due process and should apply them to their own actions. There's also far less war, rape, torture, famine, and murder than at any other point in human history, thanks almost entirely to the West. The only peaceful and prosperous societies in the non-west are places like Japan and South Korea because the West created them in their image. The Japanese empire prior to 1945 were brutal and invaded and annexed much of south-east Asia.
#15208044
Unthinking Majority wrote:Here's some of the (racist) lies some people believe about westerners/caucasians:


The "lies" he tells is that Europeans killed all the injuns, and then chopped down all the trees, and are making a mess with pollution, racism, war, materialism, etc..

I think we can see where the lies are between the history Ali tells above, and the history that Americans learn at Disney World in historically important Orlando, Florida.
#15208058
QatzelOk wrote:The "lies" he tells is that Europeans killed all the injuns, and then chopped down all the trees, and are making a mess with pollution, racism, war, materialism, etc..

I think we can see where the lies are between the history Ali tells above, and the history that Americans learn at Disney World in historically important Orlando, Florida.

No those aren't the lies. He says caucasians are a violent people (true) and that POC including Africans and Asians are more peaceful, which is objectively false. He literally demonized whites, he calls them "the white devil", which refers to a racist fable preached by the Nation of Islam in which he was a member.

The difference between Europeans and all other civilizations is that they happened to rediscover the Americas while possessing firearms before any other civilization. Had Africans or Asians rediscovered the Americas first, they would have done similar at some point. And if indigenous of the America's invented firearms and ocean-faring vessels first they would have invaded Europe, African, and/or Asia. The "noble savage" myth is a lie. I agree with most of the other points on the list in your OP.
#15208136
Unthinking Majority wrote:He says caucasians are a violent people (true) and that POC including Africans and Asians are more peaceful, which is objectively false.

If he is judging the historical behavior of white Americans, then he has concluded that they are violent.

He failed to mention how the elites of those white countries got their countryment to be violent: by creating fear.

Your quote refers to African-Americans - the plantation slaves of socially-violent (and permanently scared) white folk from mostly North-Western Europe. Scared people, whose masters learned to use wars and propaganda to get everyone scared and violent.

So his point was actually a good conversation-starter back when he said it in 1970, just after the end of Jim Crow laws, and the first years where the USA could be considered "a democracy" that ensued.

***

The lies that tell us that "all our victims are violent!" make us scared enough to commit atrocities. Which is what our masters actually want us to do. They produce propaganda to get us to want this too.

Very few people have been lied-to this effectively in history, as have colonial settlers.

Corporations (the ones who run our fake countries) have ZERO ability to feel compassion for the damage they cause. They are set up to separate shareholders from their own human conscience.
#15208183
QatzelOk wrote:If he is judging the historical behavior of white Americans, then he has concluded that they are violent.

He failed to mention how the elites of those white countries got their countryment to be violent: by creating fear.

Your quote refers to African-Americans - the plantation slaves of socially-violent (and permanently scared) white folk from mostly North-Western Europe. Scared people, whose masters learned to use wars and propaganda to get everyone scared and violent.

So his point was actually a good conversation-starter back when he said it in 1970, just after the end of Jim Crow laws, and the first years where the USA could be considered "a democracy" that ensued.


Well you obviously didn't listen to the full video. He wasn't referring to just African-Americans. Yes white Americans are violent. But not really any more violent than anyone else. Any other country government, like Canada or Denmark, that are less violent are so because they rely on the military protection of the USA and allies to do their war for them and reap the benefits. Now I will say that American citizens are domestically pretty effed up and are hyper-violent and have a nutty gun culture, but in terms of government it's just the nature of being a great global power.

Corporations (the ones who run our fake countries) have ZERO ability to feel compassion for the damage they cause. They are set up to separate shareholders from their own human conscience.

True. Corporations are amoral. All they care about is profit no matter the harm they cause to anyone.
#15208361
Unthinking Majority wrote:Well you obviously didn't listen to the full video.

Oh yes I did. In fact, I listened to it many times, years ago.

Notice that the narrator (Dick Cavett) (starting at 6:34) mentions having read a book ("Captain Cook") that took place in Tahiti, and in it, atrocities were committed.

He's trying to justify the genocides that created the USA by suggesting that "ethnics do bad things too." And the book about Tahiti that he read.... proves this. Captain Cook.

That moment in the interview was even more incriminating than Ali's obviously scripted rant.
#15208367
QatzelOk wrote:Oh yes I did. In fact, I listened to it many times, years ago.

Notice that the narrator (Dick Cavett) (starting at 6:34) mentions having read a book ("Captain Cook") that took place in Tahiti, and in it, atrocities were committed.

He's trying to justify the genocides that created the USA by suggesting that "ethnics do bad things too." And the book about Tahiti that he read.... proves this. Captain Cook.

That moment in the interview was even more incriminating than Ali's obviously scripted rant.

No, Ali was telling Dick that white people were so much more violent than the peaceful Africans and Hawaiians and Vietnamese etc. What a joke, who is he fooling? He doesn't know anything except American history. He's lying to himself and the racist Nation of Islam fills their followers with these lies too.

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