One percent produce 20 times more Greenhouse gasses than 50% of population - Page 17 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15207844
ckaihatsu wrote:Thermal Storage - Solar ICE


I love your proposed "solution" to the rich destroying the planet with obilgatory hyper-consumption:

"Just post videos of experimental tech. It's so simple!"

This tech is as exciting as all those fish-oil carburetors of the post-OPEC crisis years in the 70s and 80s. The ones that were guaranteed to get you to 200 mpg, if only the oil companies would stop blocking it!

#15207853
QatzelOk wrote:
I love your proposed "solution" to the rich destroying the planet with obilgatory hyper-consumption:

"Just post videos of experimental tech. It's so simple!"

This tech is as exciting as all those fish-oil carburetors of the post-OPEC crisis years in the 70s and 80s. The ones that were guaranteed to get you to 200 mpg, if only the oil companies would stop blocking it!

www.reddit.com/r/Technoblade/comments/m ... an_orphan/



I think you're erroneously *conflating* on a cross-class basis again, Qatzel.

The video I posted is *far* from 'corporate' / privileged, as you're implying.

I think the energy issue -- especially in the context of global warming -- is still *unresolved* by society, so people *should* be informed, at the very least. Your dismissiveness is inappropriate.

Sure, consumer protections are important, but that's another topic / aspect apart from energy policy in general.
#15207860
ckaihatsu wrote:Your dismissiveness is inappropriate.

I was taking a "consumer protection" angle, and didn't really investigate the actual "tech" proposed in your video.

consumer protections are important

Exactly. And I decided that the consumer protection angle was the most important one to explore. And your posting of a video was simply "the correct moment to post this."

The tech you submitted to the thread may very well be simple and functional (don't know), and I am not comparing the tech you posted to snake oil.

I am warning that "Snake oil promotion" is one of the tactics which the rich have deployed to increase everyone's consumption.

$$$
#15207862
QatzelOk wrote:
I was taking a "consumer protection" angle, and didn't really investigate the actual "tech" proposed in your video.


Exactly. And I decided that the consumer protection angle was the most important one to explore. And your posting of a video was simply "the correct moment to post this."

The tech you submitted to the thread may very well be simple and functional (don't know), and I am not comparing the tech you posted to snake oil.

I am warning that "Snake oil promotion" is one of the tactics which the rich have deployed to increase everyone's consumption.

$$$



Yeah, the tech from the video is admittedly more 'd.i.y.', which itself is controversial -- why isn't there a single sound societal energy policy that works for everyone -- but, again, due to climate considerations, etc.

Never thought I'd see you use the terms 'tech' and 'functional' together in the same sentence. (grin)
#15208002
ckaihatsu wrote:Yeah, the tech from the video is admittedly more 'd.i.y.', which itself is controversial ...


Yes, in our current system, anything DIY is controversial.

Image

Example: We are all Pepsi and Coke consumers, even though it takes a few seconds to put lemon juice and sugar into water. For caffeine, you can put instant coffee in water... with spices and sugar.

But the brainwashed consumer believes the Pepsi is magical. That Kombucha mushrooms make you invincible. That the magical ingredients in McDonalds food make you wise and strong.

Meanwhile, as the 1% bombard everyone with advertising, greenhouse gasses skyrocket... along with all the other side effects of top-down production.
#15208014
ckaihatsu wrote:
Yeah, the tech from the video is admittedly more 'd.i.y.', which itself is controversial -- why isn't there a single sound societal energy policy that works for everyone -- but, again, due to climate considerations, etc.



QatzelOk wrote:
Yes, in our current system, anything DIY is controversial.

[img]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Z-t2rRFBrFE%2FT11NZZ12TTI%2FAAAAAAAAABY%2FrInokuUhZlg%2Fs200%2Fwalle-e-fat-people.jpg&f=1&nofb=1[img]

Example: We are all Pepsi and Coke consumers, even though it takes a few seconds to put lemon juice and sugar into water. For caffeine, you can put instant coffee in water... with spices and sugar.

But the brainwashed consumer believes the Pepsi is magical. That Kombucha mushrooms make you invincible. That the magical ingredients in McDonalds food make you wise and strong.

Meanwhile, as the 1% bombard everyone with advertising, greenhouse gasses skyrocket... along with all the other side effects of top-down production.



You're missing the point -- d.i.y. isn't controversial because of corporate-owned consumer products, d.i.y. is controversial because it's somewhat *escapist*, as if to say 'I got mine figured-out and fuck everyone else.'

A good example here would be the coronavirus thing -- should each country try to reduce COVID rates only within their own country, or should there be a solid *international* policy that coordinates to effect the *elimination* of the coronavirus everywhere, all at once.
#15208042
ckaihatsu wrote:You're missing the point -- d.i.y. isn't controversial because of corporate-owned consumer products...

That's exactly why DIY is controversial - because of corporate control.

Walking everywhere became impossible EXACTLY because of car and oil companies.

Living in the forest became impossible two centuries ago because or railroad companies.

Soon, Big Pharma will narrow your options and make DIY health impossible too.

We drive cars because... all our other options have been swindled from us by governments that exist only to enable rent-seeking racketsTM
#15208049
QatzelOk wrote:
That's exactly why DIY is controversial - because of corporate control.

Walking everywhere became impossible EXACTLY because of car and oil companies.

Living in the forest became impossible two centuries ago because or railroad companies.

Soon, Big Pharma will narrow your options and make DIY health impossible too.

We drive cars because... all our other options have been swindled from us by governments that exist only to enable rent-seeking racketsTM



I don't disagree with your critique of the powers-that-be, of course, but I think we're talking about two *different* things when it comes to 'd.i.y.'.

You're thinking that 'd.i.y.' automatically means *retro*, when it's more like 'personal-corporate', given contemporary times and current (small-scale) tech available to the consumer.

I don't agree with your doom-and-gloom, mostly *because of* d.i.y., and proletarian solidarity, moreso, of course.
#15208131
ckaihatsu wrote:You're thinking that 'd.i.y.' automatically means *retro*,

Not at all. It means Do It Yourself, or "hand-made" or "autonomous." And this kind of lifestyle leads to an increase in self-efficacy and happiness, along with less environmental damage (or none at all).

My comparison with Pepsi versus DIY drinks... is perfect. It takes seconds to put lemon juice and sugar into cold water, yet people pay up to 3 dollars for a can of soft drink whose ingredients cost pennies, and are fairly toxic.

when it's more like 'personal-corporate', given contemporary times and current (small-scale) tech available to the consumer.

I wasn't thinking along these lines at all. I was thinking about how car companies managed to make "walking" almost impossible. Something I mastered when I was one and a half years old... has been attacked mercilessly ever since car companies exist.

Image
most people today live in a car-and-oil corporation-created hellscape

This kind of restriction of people's natural ability to "get around" (or feed themselves, or clothe themselves, or socialize without tech... etc.) has been like a nuclear bomb on the environment because of the consumption involved. And the super-rich are the ones who promoted car dependence, and are thus responsible for far more than their own personal share of gasoline.
#15208134
Cities across Europe are building cycling infrastructure. I post about them all the time at bicycle forums.

This is the latest I've done:

"There is a coliseum in Milan, the traffic goes around it. I sat sipping what the Italians call coffee, and watched the Ferraris, Maseratis and Lamborghinis go by. Coming from Maine, where (back then) you never saw such things, I enjoyed the view more than I did in most museums.

But Milan has severe pollution from vehicles, and it's not bike friendly. That's about to change, completely and dramatically.

"Within 15 years, Milan should have one of the most comprehensive networks of protected bicycle lanes in all of Europe.When complete in 2035, the network — approved by theMetropolitan City of Milan in November 2021 and due to deliver its first major cycle highways by this summer — will provide Italy’s most populous metro area with 750 kilometers (466 miles) of segregated lanes. Dubbed the Cambio Biciplan (the “Change Bike Plan”) the 250 million-euro ($285 million) project’s target exceeds even the 680 kilometers of tracks planned for Europe’s current trailblazer for grand scale bike infrastructure, Paris and its surrounding metro area.

Image

It will seek to ensure that 80% of Milan’s homes are within one kilometer’s distance of a fully protected axial cycle route, making it possible for residents to conduct almost all of their daily business on two wheels. This would be a paradigm shift in a city where heavy motor traffic still makes using shared streets unsafe and unappealing for bike riders."

Yes, Virginia, it can be done, many places are doing it, so why are we so totally f**ked that we can't?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-14/milan-plans-bike-lane-infrastructure-to-rival-paris?utm_source=pocket-newtab

The gold standard is the Netherlands, of course. We can change, for the better.
#15208148
late wrote:Cities across Europe are building cycling infrastructure.

Cities across North America are widening highways.

Our carbon consumption is going up.

If you're a North American or Brit, feel-good stories about bike paths in Milan are Transit-Porn.

And by the way, the rich here are only to happy to finance Transit Porn - it costs them so much less than mass transit or modal change would cost them - the 1%.
#15208167
late wrote:You really have no idea how politics works, do you.

If by "politics" you mean "public policy," I know more than I did last year.

If by "politics" you mean "resource distribution," then of course, this is my preferred definition.

And insinuating that resource-distribution is a giant, multi-headed hydra of math formulae... as a say of shutting down discussions about pollution.... is a propaganda technique of the rich (who own mass media . uh oh).
#15208179
QatzelOk wrote:Walking everywhere became impossible EXACTLY because of car and oil companies.

People wanted cars, and still want them, because cars are amazing.
Living in the forest became impossible two centuries ago because or railroad companies.

Living in the forest was never much of an option, and it was legal enclosure of forest lands as private property that made it impossible to live in them, not railroads.
Soon, Big Pharma will narrow your options and make DIY health impossible too.

It will take more and more determination and ingenuity to do it yourself, but IMO it will still be possible.
We drive cars because... all our other options have been swindled from us by governments that exist only to enable rent-seeking racketsTM

While I agree that governments have been captured by privileged rentier interests, people -- especially outside dense urban areas -- have lots of perfectly good reasons for driving cars. The real cause of urban car culture is private landowner privilege, which makes it profitable for landowners to get as much land as they can afford under their dwellings, leading to sprawl, and makes it financially infeasible for governments to provide economically efficient levels of transport infrastructure because its value all has to be given away to private landowners in return for nothing.
#15208185
QatzelOk wrote:
If by "politics" you mean "public policy," I know more than I did last year.

If by "politics" you mean "resource distribution," then of course, this is my preferred definition.

And insinuating that resource-distribution is a giant, multi-headed hydra of math formulae... as a say of shutting down discussions about pollution.... is a propaganda technique of the rich (who own mass media . uh oh).



I mean politics.

There will eventually be a mass movement demanding change, and that will give Progressives the leverage they need.
#15208359
Truth To Power wrote: ...people -- especially outside dense urban areas -- have lots of perfectly good reasons for driving cars. ..

They sure do. And people with ruined immunity systems will have perfectly good reasons to spend thousands of dollars on pharamceutical products.

Let's hope this doesn't become Big Pharma's business model.

Because Big Auto's business model was to lobby governments to move everyone into cheap bungalows in the middle of nowhere. They turned Americans into ADDICTS to their products by removing all other options.

I agree that governments have been captured by privileged rentier interests,

This happened a long time ago. Railroad corporations "ordered" the genocides of many First Nations, as did the Gold industry. Car companies - who made tanks in both wars - had the government ear (through bribes) for most of the 20th Century - with the results being obese people living in hideous places.
#15210784
I watched the DW video and I'm proud to say I knew it all already.

It's a scam by environmentalists to make money for themselves. The hilarious part is at the end when the guy comes up with the best way to stop this is have another corrupt bureaucracy of paper pushers "monitoring". More administrative "fixes". It's just as hilarious as the "in-crowd" jetting off to Davos, Switzerland, every year in their private jets to discuss how to take the proles for more and more.

How did I know all of this already? Because Shyster Vice President Al Gore was at it 25 years ago doing the same exact thing!

It's all about forming guilt in your head and then taking advantage of it to line their pockets. Companies and politicians do it so well. Learn from history.
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