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By ckaihatsu
#15208308
Doug64 wrote:



The committee's already produced *results*. I see no sign of 'overstepping':



Two witnesses, Steve Bannon and Mark Meadows, have been held in criminal contempt of Congress for refusing to testify; Bannon was indicted by a federal grand jury. The committee, as reported by The Washington Post in December 2021, was considering recommending that the U.S. Department of Justice open a criminal investigation into Donald Trump's involvement.[4]



The committee's findings may also be used in arguments to hold individuals legally accountable. For example, Representative Liz Cheney, who serves on the committee, suggested that Trump may have committed a felony by obstructing the electoral certification proceedings. There are different types of obstruction; in this case, it could carry a relatively high maximum sentence of 20 years.[32] Seditious conspiracy, a charge brought against individuals including the leader of the Oath Keepers,[33] is a possible charge for Trump.[34][35] The committee was also considering wire fraud criminal referrals against Republicans who raised money off assertions of a stolen election they knew to be untrue.[36][37] The U.S. Department of Justice has the authority to bring criminal charges against political leaders.[38] Congress sometimes recommends criminal charges, but a "recommendation" or "referral" has no legal force in itself.[39]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... y_6_Attack



---


Rich wrote:




The effectiveness of this strategy is disputed. Reports by the US House of Representatives Committee on Homeland security have found fusion centers to be a national asset, though they have at times raised concerns about the ability to evaluate their effectiveness. A 2012 Senate report analyzed 13 months of fusion center reports and found no instances where they helped uncover or prevent a terror attack. The American Civil Liberties Union and the Department of Homeland Security have separately raised concerns about the threats fusion centers pose to privacy rights such as excessive secrecy, little oversight, and mission creep. The actions of individual fusion centers have also been criticized for actions such as labeling universities as terrorism threats, targeting third party candidates and supporters as potential militia members, and incorrectly blaming a faulty water pump on Russian hackers.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_center#Criticism
#15208326
Unthinking Majority wrote:The US gov is so corrupt that some Americans would rather have a fascist with balls who will do the things they see as necessary that nobody will dare do than a democratically elected wuss puppet owned by all the lobbyists and corporations who is some PC ninny choosing all the correct words for fear of offending. They want some courage and leadership FFS, someone fearless who will take the hits to make the hard decisions. That's how desperate Americans are for change. If somebody in Washington with some ethics and courage (who wasn't a socialist) would just stand up they'd win in a landslide. They want a POTUS who will grab the football and run 100 yards while telling the haters to suck it.

Joe is a decent man in a corrupt system who is a sellout and plays their games. Obama was the same. Biden is also well past his prime. He's old and half-senile and probably needs to put on his slippers and take a nap every afternoon. Trump is an asshole, but he also stands up for American interests (along with his own unfortunately) and gets shit done. Joe is much more sane and reasonable, but he's bit of a wet noodle. Most Democrats are. Some exceptions, the alpha Dems like JFK and Clinton. Americans don't want a wet noodle. Americans are dicks. Americans are desperate for a dick with some balls but who is also honorable and ethical. A true American patriot. GI Joe for POTUS.


I think Joe is corrupt (Ukraine videos, Hunter Biden, kid sniffing) but it's getting to be a dead horse by now. Believe what you want on that one.

One thing I would note is that Donald Trump was constantly firing people and was getting results. Joe Biden has, to my knowledge, not fired a single person even though his administration is a train wreck. This suggests to me that he doesn't have confidence regarding who he should or shouldn't fire, which may speak to his mental state, or some level of corruption, or both.
#15208366
Wulfschilde wrote:I think Joe is corrupt (Ukraine videos, Hunter Biden, kid sniffing) but it's getting to be a dead horse by now. Believe what you want on that one.


As I said Joe is a decent man in a corrupt system and a sellout. He's sold his soul to the devil for power, and so did Obama. Instead of standing up and telling the truth they just played the game like virtually every other Democrat and Republican does. TI guess that doesn't make him a decent man. They are all power-seeking cowards. Eff them all, they are destroying the country. They have no honour or courage.
#15208369
Let us all remember that the first effective COVID vaccine (pfizer) was announced at 7am on the Monday morning immediately after Joe Biden was confirmed as the POTUS winner on the Saturday 36 hours beforehand.

Pfizer had sat on this info "to not influence the election" , even though sitting on it also influenced the election.
#15208410
Unthinking Majority wrote:As I said Joe is a decent man in a corrupt system and a sellout. He's sold his soul to the devil for power, and so did Obama. Instead of standing up and telling the truth they just played the game like virtually every other Democrat and Republican does. TI guess that doesn't make him a decent man. They are all power-seeking cowards. Eff them all, they are destroying the country. They have no honour or courage.

Just funny to me, no offense, that you conflated a sellout with a decent man there. Glad you cleared that up.

Also LOL, Jen Psaki is telling people who are frustrated with things to drink more alcohol:
By Patrickov
#15208411
Unthinking Majority wrote:Pfizer had sat on this info "to not influence the election" , even though sitting on it also influenced the election.


Are you suggesting "Pfizer thinks releasing the information early would help the incumbent, i.e. Trump"?
By Rich
#15208425
Patrickov wrote:Are you suggesting "Pfizer thinks releasing the information early would help the incumbent, i.e. Trump"?

Yes and by implicitly declaring that they held back the information to damage Trump, they were also signalling to corrupt Joe that they would be expecting pay back for their "assistance".
By Patrickov
#15208438
Rich wrote:Yes and by implicitly declaring that they held back the information to damage Trump, they were also signalling to corrupt Joe that they would be expecting pay back for their "assistance".


Specifically for my questions, I usually do not take into account whatever answers given by the ones other than the person I asked.
By Doug64
#15208481
ckaihatsu wrote:The committee's already produced *results*.

Yes, and I'm sure the police could also produce results if they could ignore things like the Constitution's prohibition of unreasonable search and seizures. Efficiency and the rights of a free people often conflict.
User avatar
By ckaihatsu
#15208488
Doug64 wrote:
Yes, and I'm sure the police could also produce results if they could ignore things like the Constitution's prohibition of unreasonable search and seizures. Efficiency and the rights of a free people often conflict.



The administration has *probable cause* because Trump and his minions were trying to *kill legislators*.

This following part was practically written with you in mind:



January 6, 2021 was a fascist coup that came within minutes of achieving its objectives. The storming and occupation of the Capitol by Trump loyalists was not a random act of violence, or an inconsequential “tour visit” that has been blown out of proportion. It was the culmination of a definite political strategy orchestrated by Trump and carried out by his supporters throughout the Republican Party and US government.

Despite ongoing revelations implicating Trump, his lawyers and Republican politicians throughout the country, not one of the principal architects and schemers has been arrested. Over a year after Trump and the Republicans tried to prevent Biden from assuming the office of president, the life-long Democratic politician expressed shock in his press conference Wednesday night that this party of fascists and insurrectionists would block his voting rights and limited social welfare bills.



https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/0 ... p-j22.html
#15208499
Patrickov wrote:Are you suggesting "Pfizer thinks releasing the information early would help the incumbent, i.e. Trump"?


I'm not sure what they were thinking. Maybe they didn't want to interfere with the election, maybe they wanted Trump bounced, who knows. Either way, they interfered with the election.
By Doug64
#15208604
ckaihatsu wrote:The administration has *probable cause* because Trump and his minions were trying to *kill legislators*.

The point isn't that the committee is arguing that it has probably cause, it's arguing that it doesn't need probably cause.

In its ongoing attempt to investigate and gather information about private U.S. citizens, the Congressional 1/6 Committee is claiming virtually absolute powers that not even the FBI or other law enforcement agencies enjoy. Indeed, lawyers for the committee have been explicitly arguing that nothing proscribes or limits their authority to obtain data regarding whichever citizens they target and, even more radically, that the checks imposed on the FBI (such as the requirement to obtain judicial authorization for secret subpoenas) do not apply to the committee.

All of that is standard boiler-plate authoritarianism, though, what makes the committee fascistic is the way it's demanding that the banks dance to its tune, and they are eager to do so.

ckaihatsu wrote:This following part was practically written with you in mind:

I wouldn't call 725 arrests "nothing."
User avatar
By ckaihatsu
#15208652
Doug64 wrote:
The point isn't that the committee is arguing that it has probably cause, it's arguing that it doesn't need probably cause.


All of that is standard boiler-plate authoritarianism, though, what makes the committee fascistic is the way it's demanding that the banks dance to its tune, and they are eager to do so.


I wouldn't call 725 arrests "nothing."



You keep characterizing the government behavior as 'overstepping' (my terming), but mere repetition doesn't help your contention at all.

Shouldn't the government be able to prosecute one of its own, a former president, who tried to overturn an election and a new presidency?
By Doug64
#15209655
ckaihatsu wrote:Shouldn't the government be able to prosecute one of its own, a former president, who tried to overturn an election and a new presidency?

Sure, using all the laws and rules that we have put in place to protect the innocent, a number of them enshrined in our Constitution. The committee's claim that it doesn't need probable cause is a clear violation of the Constitution's prohibition of unreasonable searches and seizures.
User avatar
By ckaihatsu
#15209656
ckaihatsu wrote:
Shouldn't the government be able to prosecute one of its own, a former president, who tried to overturn an election and a new presidency?



Doug64 wrote:
Sure, using all the laws and rules that we have put in place to protect the innocent, a number of them enshrined in our Constitution. The committee's claim that it doesn't need probable cause is a clear violation of the Constitution's prohibition of unreasonable searches and seizures.




On Friday, Politico published the draft of an executive order drawn up for Donald Trump, dated December 16, 2020, which authorized Acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller to deploy the National Guard to seize voting machines across the country.

The order was a brief for the military to overturn the election of Joe Biden and impose a military dictatorship headed by the defeated incumbent, Trump. It would have given the Pentagon 60 days to submit its analysis of supposed election fraud to the director of national intelligence and a special council to draw up criminal and civil charges against Trump’s political opponents, who would undoubtedly have been arrested and likely killed en masse.



https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/0 ... p-j22.html
#15209948
jimjam wrote:Odds are extremely high that 2022 will be the last year of our more than two centuries old "democratic experiment". Those of us who do not identify with the Trump cult must start to think seriously about how we will live under a totalitarian regime, because the odds right now are extremely high that we will.

So what will we do? A totalitarian regime always rules by fear. This means that we will keep our heads down. We will speak candidly only with our most trusted friends, and perhaps not even then. We will try not to rock the boat because we know what happens to those who incur Dear Leader's wrath.

Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.



Then I guess YOU need to study history and more importantly, UNDERSTAND it. Don't just read it. Make sense of it. Study it. Accurately.



Which leads me to this....

Don't get angry with me. Your own people are pointing out just how whacked out you democrats have become.

You best do some soul searching. Stop thinking about Trump. Start thinking about YOU.


Bill Maher, January 28th....

User avatar
By jimjam
#15209959
BlutoSays wrote:Then I guess YOU need to study history and more importantly, UNDERSTAND it. Don't just read it. Make sense of it. Study it. Accurately.

Does this mean that YOU have studied history, understood it and made accurate sense of it? I assume it does .....

BlutoSays wrote:Your own people are pointing out just how whacked out you democrats have become.

What ,pray tell, leads you to the conclusion that i am a "democrat"? Do you perhaps subscribe to the simple minded Democrat/Republican dichotomy that gives comfort to the unthinking masses? Try thinking for yourself sonny. It will be painful and confusing at first but, eventually, even you may catch on.

BlutoSays wrote:You best do some soul searching.

I'll get right on it sonny............ :lol:

BlutoSays wrote:Stop thinking about Trump.

Hard to do when an obese, psychopathic ,lying , treasonous, con artist endlessly spreads hatred throughout the land.

BTW did the Georgia secretary of state ever "find" those votes that Fatso instructed him to find :lol: .
User avatar
By jimjam
#15210080
Timothy Snyder, a history professor at Yale University, pointed out that Adolph Hitler utilized the same tactic that is currently being attempted by trump.

“Part of the character of trump's ‘big lie’ is that it turns the powerful person into the victim. And then that allows the powerful person to actually exact revenge. like it’s a promise for the future,” he explained. “The lie is so big that it reorders the world. And so, part of telling the big lie is that you immediately say it’s the other side that tells the big lie. Sadly, but it’s just a matter of record, all of that is in “Mein Kampf.”
User avatar
By Rancid
#15210081
jimjam wrote:Timothy Snyder, a history professor at Yale University, pointed out that Adolph Hitler utilized the same tactic that is currently being attempted by trump.

“Part of the character of trump's ‘big lie’ is that it turns the powerful person into the victim. And then that allows the powerful person to actually exact revenge. like it’s a promise for the future,” he explained. “The lie is so big that it reorders the world. And so, part of telling the big lie is that you immediately say it’s the other side that tells the big lie. Sadly, but it’s just a matter of record, all of that is in “Mein Kampf.”


This is why the best thing we need to happen is for Trump to die. Here's to hoping he chokes on one of those KFC chicken wings he likes to eat. That fat fuck.

If he runs again, he's almost sure to win. The democrats are handing this to him with their dumb wokery bullshit.
Last edited by Rancid on 02 Feb 2022 23:55, edited 1 time in total.
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