Boris Johnson is done - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Talk about what you've seen in the news today.

Moderator: PoFo Today's News Mods

#15208124
JohnRawls wrote:Oh Boris tried many things already as I understand, but the rating is plummeting. This wasn't the first "attempt" nor it will be the last.

Which clown is scariest...?

Image

The answer is, of course, Boris Johnson, since he's the only one of the three who actually could kill us all.... :eek:
#15208125
Potemkin wrote:Which clown is scariest...?

Image

The answer is, of course, Boris Johnson, since he's the only one of the three who actually could kill us all.... :eek:


He has access to the red button, did the other two have access to the big red nuclear button?
By Rich
#15208295
I opposed most of the measures imposed. And although I don't drink alcohol I would have opposed an absolute ban on alcohol consumption for the duration of the pandemic, although this obviously would have saved lives. Alcohol has huge costs and not just to the people who become addicted or heavily dependant. But preservation of life although a significant consideration can not and should not override all other interests.

However I see no justification for not having a complete ban on work place Alcohol consumption for the duration of the pandemic. Then it would have been clear what the rules were and we'd have none of this nonsense. Why didn't Keir Starmer, Nicola Sturgeon or Joe Biden even, demand this? As I've said before the idea that saving lives was the top priority of the Lockdown Liberals was always a complete joke
User avatar
By noemon
#15208536
Telegraph wrote:The defence of Boris Johnson the Tory establishment doesn’t want you to read

He might be chaotic and a disruptor – but I don’t believe he can have lied to Parliament

I can think of several reasons why you might want Boris Johnson gone. Perhaps you are still sore about Brexit. Perhaps you feel he was too strict during the lockdowns, or perhaps that he was too lax. Perhaps you think he is spending too much. Perhaps you are a Labour supporter, and you want an early general election. Perhaps you are a big fan of one of the potential Tory leadership contenders.

These are understandable grounds on which to wish to be rid of him. But stepping into his garden to thank officials? Seriously?

Overseas observers find the row utterly mystifying. Britain is coming out of the epidemic before any other country. It is sending hardware to Ukraine in anticipation of what might turn into an all-out war. Yet its politicians and journalists remain obsessed with staffers drinking wine in a garden two years ago.

Ah, you say, but it’s not about the wine. It’s about the fact that the Prime Minister broke the rules and then lied about it to MPs. Well, if he is found to have done these things, he will have to resign – even if Vladimir Putin’s columns have by then punched their way across Europe and occupied Paris. Under our system, lying to Parliament is the unpardonable sin, the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost that shall not be forgiven unto men.

For what it’s worth, though, I’m pretty sure that Boris has not committed that particular offence. He might be chaotic, impatient with the rules, a disruptor – characteristics of which we were well aware when we voted for him, and which arguably helped deliver both Brexit and the vaccine procurement programme – but I don’t believe he can have lied to Parliament, and I’ll tell you why.

The story of the gathering in the garden on May 20 2020 was first made public, as many recent accusations have been, by Dominic Cummings. It came in a blog on January 7, and was presumably intended, at least in part, to deflect criticism from Cummings himself, who had been pictured alongside drinks in the Downing Street garden on a different May evening.

The blog contained a paragraph that is worth quoting in full (emphasis in the original):

Because No10’s political and communication operation has imploded, it has failed to explain something very obvious to anybody working there at the time: No 10 staff were ENCOURAGED to have meetings in the garden April-August for the obvious reason that we were in a pandemic with an airborne disease and being outside was safer! All day every day in this period there were many work meetings in the No 10 garden.

That is the context in which the PM was asked to step outside and thank the civil servants who had remained at their posts through the lockdown. Every day, by Cummings’s own account, the garden was full of officials.

Should Johnson have seen red flashing lights when he saw glasses and bottles? In retrospect, perhaps he should.

But I can well imagine, in his position, thinking, “No doubt this has all been signed off by whoever is in charge.” And if your response is, “But he was in charge, he was Prime Minister”, then you misunderstand his role. The PM is not supposed to act as a No 10 HR manager. He has a nuclear-armed G7 country to run.

Johnson might be disorganised, but he is not dim. He must have realised that Cummings might use whatever kompromat he had. Had he been conscious of breaking the rules, he would have known that his former employee might expose it.

In other words, if he was lying when he denied that there had been any parties, it was the stupidest lie imaginable, for he would have known that the facts would come out.

No, the only explanation that makes sense is that the PM believed he was acting within the rules when he addressed staff at their place of work.

No one wants to hear this, of course. We are angry – understandably angry – about all the privations and prohibitions we have just lived through. I still feel the choler rise in my gorge when I think of the taped-off playgrounds, the sunbathers being moved on, the police drones. In our frustration, we want someone to blame.

Epidemics have often been followed by bursts of violence. Sometimes, as Tom Holland showed in his spectacular history Dominion, plagues prompted a bout of statue-smashing. More often, our ancestors directed their ire at witches or at religious minorities. We direct ours at politicians.

It was Johnson’s misfortune to shamble into view just at the moment when the epidemic was ending, just as anxiety was giving way to indignation, just as we were looking for a target on which to vent our frustration.

Few things are as maddening as the idea that the people setting the rules are ignoring them. Many of us will cling to our grievance even if the PM is shown to have acted in good faith.

You might think that I’m being overly generous to an old Telegraph hack, but I don’t think No 10 likes to be defended in this way.

The party line, as you can’t have failed to notice, is to apologise and move on. Yes, yes, he’s terribly sorry, utterly contrite, quite miserable, but let’s not overlook the fact that we’re the fastest-growing major economy in the world.

Conservative strategists sense that, just as during the MPs’ expenses scandal in 2009, no one is interested in clarifications, corrections or mitigations. Offer any excuse and you place yourself in the path of a lynch mob.

In any case, I don’t think the Prime Minister is blameless. Yes, he deserves far more credit than he has had for reopening the country. But that gain will be squandered if he carries on governing like a social democrat.

Boris’s fondness for grands projets was, like his impatience with rules, priced in before the 2019 general election. I voted for him knowing that he liked to spend public money, whether on bridges, social care schemes, hospitals or ships. But I reasoned that, provided we had a decent measure of post-EU free trade and deregulation, we could pay for these things out of higher growth. What we cannot do is to carry on douching cash all over the place as if we had not dropped that unforeseen half trillion on the epidemic.

The inflation that everyone except the Bank of England was warning about is now upon us. By the end of the year, most of us will be palpably poorer. We will either have to work longer hours to sustain our standard of living, or we will find that we can no longer afford as many things.

Reduced living standards will be the central fact of our politics for the rest of this Parliament, and the next election will be won by the party that is better trusted on the economy.

As the country gets back to the office, ministers need to go all-out for growth. That will mean facing down vested interests and immobilist officials to deliver meaningful deregulation, of the kind set out by Iain Duncan Smith, Theresa Villiers and George Freeman in their report.

It will mean removing trade barriers, including in agriculture. It will mean lower, flatter and simpler taxes. Many Conservative MPs ask each other whether these things can happen as their party is currently led and configured. They hope the PM will replace the civil servants who have let him down with a Lord Frost-like figure – with someone, in other words, who wants to grasp the opportunities for freer commerce and competition afforded by Brexit.

For most Tory backbenchers, the question is not whether Johnson knew he was breaking the rules. It is whether he is an electoral asset or a drag on the ticket.

They can read the polls, of course. But they also remember how, within months of becoming leader, Johnson took his party from its worst ever result – 8.8 per cent at the 2019 European election – to a stonking 42.4 per cent, its greatest victory in more than 30 years.

MPs know that his fate, like theirs, is tied to our economic recovery. They are watching to see whether he recovers his former laissez-faire instincts and, with them, his former popularity. He has managed it before.


Seems like Boris might actually survive this.

Boris stands alone as the one and only western leader that resolutely supports the Ukraine while France, Germany and the US appear wavering & pathetic. He also stands alone in taking his country out of Covid and lockdowns while Europe and others are fining people for not wearing masks or getting the jab.

Funnily Boris is leading the way.
#15208538
noemon wrote:Seems like Boris might actually survive this.

Boris stands alone as the one and only western leader that resolutely supports the Ukraine while France, Germany and the US appear wavering & pathetic. He also stands alone in taking his country out of Covid and lockdowns while Europe and others are fining people for not wearing masks or getting the jab.

Funnily Boris is leading the way.


Lying chancer who has done nothing but oversee hypocritical corruption.
#15208539
pugsville wrote:Lying chancer who has done nothing but oversee hypocritical corruption.

That’s redundant, @pugsville - we already know that he’s a Tory. :)
#15208644
I still fall into the camp that wants him to stay on as long as possible so he can inflict enough harm onto the tories that will see them off at the next election.

This country is in such a sorry state that the harm that will be necessarily be inflicted on us in the meantime, won’t make a lot of difference to our lives - especially since whoever replaces him will just carry on doing it.

Supported, no doubt, by the fuckwits who keep voting for them in the weird belief they care about them and their petty prejudices.
By Rich
#15209864
So I'm trying to make sense of the "liberal" media and labour's argument in this debate. Are they saying that Jimmy Saville was a minor insignificant celebrity with no links to anyone in power. So there was no reason for the Director of public prosecutions at the time (Keir Starmer) to take any interest in whether he was prosecuted or not?
#15209919
Rich wrote:So I'm trying to make sense of the "liberal" media and labour's argument in this debate. Are they saying that Jimmy Saville was a minor insignificant celebrity with no links to anyone in power. So there was no reason for the Director of public prosecutions at the time (Keir Starmer) to take any interest in whether he was prosecuted or not?


Wharaboutism irrelevance. Falling for Johnson despicable "key look over there" gambit.
By Rich
#15209923
pugsville wrote:Wharaboutism irrelevance.

Who is to replace Johnson is very far from an irrelevance. If Johnson is replaced Labour and the liberal media will almost certainly start demanding an election if the Tories replace him. Getting rid of Johnson could easily put in Starmer and Starmer is a disgusting individual. This is the man who wanted to put Jeremy Corbyn into number 10, when he saw him as a path to ministerial office, but then had him thrown out of the party when he criticised Starmer's leadership. According to Starmer's perverted logic one minute Corbyn's fit to be Prime minister of Britain the next he's not even fit to be a Labour back bench labour MP.

We saw the same with Brexit, he used a second vote as path to gain power in the labour party and then abandoned all criticism of Brexit when it no longer served his career needs. So the question here is there a pattern of behaviour on the part of Starmer. Johhny Rotten seemed to rumble Jimmy Saville back in the 1970's but Starmer with all his contacts in top society was unaware? I think its very reasonable to ask if Starmer didn't want to prosecute Saville because he thought it might be bad for his career.
#15209981
Cant help but notice that despite the thread title, Johnson is still prime minister of UK.


snapdragon wrote:I still fall into the camp that wants him to stay on as long as possible so he can inflict enough harm onto the tories that will see them off at the next election.


To what end ?

The only alternative to the Torries are the other Torries, mislabeled "Labour".

Which is why I dont think Johnson will have much trouble to win against Starmer. Johnson is awful, sure, but Starmer is the same, if not worse, and posesses neither Charisma nor Humor.
#15209992
Rich wrote:Who is to replace Johnson is very far from an irrelevance. If Johnson is replaced Labour and the liberal media will almost certainly start demanding an election if the Tories replace him. Getting rid of Johnson could easily put in Starmer and Starmer is a disgusting individual. This is the man who wanted to put Jeremy Corbyn into number 10, when he saw him as a path to ministerial office, but then had him thrown out of the party when he criticised Starmer's leadership. According to Starmer's perverted logic one minute Corbyn's fit to be Prime minister of Britain the next he's not even fit to be a Labour back bench labour MP.

We saw the same with Brexit, he used a second vote as path to gain power in the labour party and then abandoned all criticism of Brexit when it no longer served his career needs. So the question here is there a pattern of behaviour on the part of Starmer. Johhny Rotten seemed to rumble Jimmy Saville back in the 1970's but Starmer with all his contacts in top society was unaware? I think its very reasonable to ask if Starmer didn't want to prosecute Saville because he thought it might be bad for his career.


Hmm so just throw enough spurious claims and whataboutisms and the issue goes away. Raise a how bunch of totally irrelevant issues,

The sole question here is should Johnson be held to account for his actions or not.
By Rich
#15210011
pugsville wrote:The sole question here is should Johnson be held to account for his actions or not.

:lol: What you mean pay a few fines? I opposed lockdown from the start. I opposed it on multiple grounds, but one aspect was the class warfare nature of the rules. Rich people could easily pay a fine, poor people could not. I was in a multiple occupation house if one person in the house caught it no protection was offered to the rest of us. Meanwhile rich filth like Prince Charles and Prince William locked down with servants in their huge mansions and palaces, which had huge space space that could have been used to allow people to socially distance and self isolate.

Boris Johnson is a known rule breaker. Its almost his most notable feature. The outrage that he broke the rules is absolutely pathetic. Seriously is there a single person on this forum, who is familiar with British politics that was surprised that he broke the rules? I have to say to the Lockdown liberals some people might be surprised by your new friend the rule keeper general Dominic Cummings.
#15210013
Negotiator wrote:Cant help but notice that despite the thread title, Johnson is still prime minister of UK.


For now.




To what end ?

The only alternative to the Torries are the other Torries, mislabeled "Labour".


No, they’re not mislabelled Labour at all, though some people seem to think they should be the communist party.

I’ve already explained I want Johnson to go his whole length.

Which is why I dont think Johnson will have much trouble to win against Starmer. Johnson is awful, sure, but Starmer is the same, if not worse, and posesses neither Charisma nor Humor.


Weird point of view. Weird spelling, too.
#15210015
Rich wrote::lol: What you mean pay a few fines? I opposed lockdown from the start. I opposed it on multiple grounds, but one aspect was the class warfare nature of the rules. Rich people could easily pay a fine, poor people could not. I was in a multiple occupation house if one person in the house caught it no protection was offered to the rest of us.


My daughter lives in a shared house, but when one of her housemates caught covid they managed to keep safe by isolating themselves in their room and wearing a mask to visit the bathroom etc., and wiping down surfaces. None of the four housemates caught it.


Meanwhile rich filth like Prince Charles and Prince William locked down with servants in their huge mansions and palaces, which had huge space space that could have been used to allow people to socially distance and self isolate.


So do loads of other people. And?

Boris Johnson is a known rule breaker. Its almost his most notable feature. The outrage that he broke the rules is absolutely pathetic. Seriously is there a single person on this forum, who is familiar with British politics that was surprised that he broke the rules? I have to say to the Lockdown liberals some people might be surprised by your new friend the rule keeper general Dominic Cummings.


No, of course nobody is surprised he broke his own rules unless they are particularly devoid of brain cells.

The man is a liar. He always has been and always will be
By Rich
#15210019
snapdragon wrote:My daughter lives in a shared house, but when one of her housemates caught covid they managed to keep safe by isolating themselves in their room and wearing a mask to visit the bathroom etc., and wiping down surfaces. None of the four housemates caught it.

Me and a friend /intimate had it and we made no attempt to socially distance and none of the other 8 or 9 people in the house or garden got it. Or at least showed any symptoms as most weren't testing. Later another person got it but again no one else showed any symptoms.

No, of course nobody is surprised he broke his own rules unless they are particularly devoid of brain cells.

The man is a liar. He always has been and always will be

So why the sudden outrage just because Dominic Cummings, Covid rule keeper extraordinaire revelations have led to the publicising of what everyone with half a brain would have suspected? So I get it, although Richard Nixon was America's greatest post war President, the Watergate revelations exposed actions that went well beyond the known behaviour and character of Richard Nixon. I don't buy the nonsense that Donald Trump seriously tried to overthrow American democracy on jan 6th, but if he had it would be a serious crime far beyond his previous actions.

AlthoughIi don't believe in government election through the courts, it was the use of litigation as a political weapon that brought down the Roman Republic, it was good that investigations into Bill Clinton exposed the disgusting treatment and hypocrisy of the Clintons towards women. But what are these expensive police investigations for? How likely are they to reveal anything about Boris that wasn't already known.
#15210075
Rich wrote::lol: What you mean pay a few fines? I opposed lockdown from the start. I opposed it on multiple grounds, but one aspect was the class warfare nature of the rules. Rich people could easily pay a fine, poor people could not. I was in a multiple occupation house if one person in the house caught it no protection was offered to the rest of us. Meanwhile rich filth like Prince Charles and Prince William locked down with servants in their huge mansions and palaces, which had huge space space that could have been used to allow people to socially distance and self isolate.

Boris Johnson is a known rule breaker. Its almost his most notable feature. The outrage that he broke the rules is absolutely pathetic. Seriously is there a single person on this forum, who is familiar with British politics that was surprised that he broke the rules? I have to say to the Lockdown liberals some people might be surprised by your new friend the rule keeper general Dominic Cummings.


Reisgning. If he is found to have broken the rules, Boris Johnson will be removed by his own party,

Dominic Cumming is an lying snake.

So you wan to overturn the capitalist nature of the Justice system?
#15210202
Image

3 resignations today, 2 of them highly important.

The Torygraph is imploring Johnson to quit, Rishi refuses to deny and is the Tory party becoming Blue Labour?
#15210203
People elected Boris Johnson and Tories rule the country, not for answering stupid questions or resigning over unimportant things.

Are they resigning over a Christmas party? What a stupid reason of quitting. :lol:

Helter skelter! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vW[…]

Russia-Ukraine War 2022

Another morning, another delusional rant from Igor[…]

Feeling Biden's inflation yet?

Every country has inflation. Biden didn't cause i[…]

Primary Elections 2022

Trump is the symptom, not the cause. You gotta ki[…]