Moscow refuses to rule out Latin America military deployments - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Political issues and parties from Mexico to Argentina.

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#15208594
Fasces wrote:That determination is up to the people of Cuba, as a sovereign state, not US policy makers. If the Cuban people feel that they are under threat, shouldn't they be allowed to request military support from other powers, regardless of US input?


Haha, good joke. "The people" rarely have much of a say on foreign policy, least of all in Cuba.
#15210506
Rancid wrote:Has anyone asked Latin American countries if they want shit hole Russia in their country?

Since when did anyone ask Latin American countries anything, @Rancid? "Oh, so you'd like to be treated as a sovereign nation would you? How interesting...." "Oh, so you'd like us to stop training death squads and supporting brutal genocidal dictators would you? I see...." *stifles a yawn* :excited:
#15210535
Patrickov wrote:No. Two reasons:

1. Cuba is a dictatorial shithole.
2. The country being invited is also a dictatorial shithole.


1. The USA is a fake democracy ruled by plutocrats who openly disdain democracy.

2. The USA is in deep shit and deep debt and in deep trouble with their shameless lack of intelligence dealing with other nations.

3. If power and greed and lack of respect for the environment and for science were a measure of intelligence for national leadership the USA sucks. Big time.

4. Imperialists are cowardly people in general. They never challenge other nations with nukes. They just like bullying little countries without nukes. Like the bullies they are. I will never cry when they lose power. Ever.
#15210565
@Tainari88

Whatever you say does not change the fact that:
1. Cuba and Russia are both dictatorial shitholes
2. Democratic countries around the world find the United States a better custodian of their system than either Russia or China

The United States is not perfect (one may say it is probably one of the worst behaving Western countries) but at least it is open to criticism. Most American Po'Foers would be under house arrest or even in jail were they in Russia or China.
#15210580
Patrickov wrote:@Tainari88

Whatever you say does not change the fact that:
1. Cuba and Russia are both dictatorial shitholes


Well, you did argue that only democracies should be allowed to exercise national sovereignty. If places like the USA are oligarchies, then these countries would also not ge allowed to exercise national sovereignty according to your argument.

2. Democratic countries around the world find the United States a better custodian of their system than either Russia or China


Not in Latin America, which is the area under discussion.

The United States is not perfect (one may say it is probably one of the worst behaving Western countries) but at least it is open to criticism. Most American Po'Foers would be under house arrest or even in jail were they in Russia or China.


And again, we are discussing Latin America, not the USA.

The USA has consistently supported dictatorships in Latin America that do far worse than place dissidents under house arrest or jail.

So, all the “western” capitalists and all the Russian capitalists can all go home now.
#15210583
Patrickov wrote:@Tainari88

Whatever you say does not change the fact that:
1. Cuba and Russia are both dictatorial shitholes
2. Democratic countries around the world find the United States a better custodian of their system than either Russia or China

The United States is not perfect (one may say it is probably one of the worst behaving Western countries) but at least it is open to criticism. Most American Po'Foers would be under house arrest or even in jail were they in Russia or China.


I do not give a damn about your subjective opinion based on sheer BULLSHIT Patrickov. I look at historical facts. Not the Power of Fucking American Mythology. The USA took over land that did not belong to a bunch of ex British subjects. It was occupied by thousands of Native American tribes. The vast majority were wiped out illegally. Killed with the express purpose of getting access to a resource that the Natives had established historical rights to. Then they (the USA government), violated the vast majority of their treatees with the Native people of the USA territories and states. They did not keep their word. Liars of the worst sort. They bayoneted babies and killed off entire tribes and sent them to a mass grave (read up on the Arapahoe tribe in Colorado), and thousands more. I could be here for years writing about how many Indian people the American government killed off so they could have access to resources to build their American white people dream for rich and greedy low lives who were hell bent on making money off of raping the Earth and polluting water, land and air for the name of GREED. You can deny it all you want. It is not any morally superior position to Russia or China or any other old nation of the human past that had to learn the hard way that you are going to get your ass kicked by not following some basic principles of diplomacy and trade and intelligence in practicing good governance.

Russia had to defend herself from invaders for centuries. China as well. All looking for money and being greedy. To underestimate the evil in the USA because you think China is worse and so is Russia? That is naive. The Chinese and the Russians are HUMAN BEINGS. Just like the capitalist greedy plutocrats in charge of the USA now, and everyone else on planet Earth.

There is no the USA is less bad. No, they are ignorant. They will not be marching on into the future after a Japanese invasion that lasted 8 bloody years like the Chinese had. Or a Nazi horror invasion killing off 25 million Russians like the Soviets had to deal with in WWII. The USA does not have that kind of history Patrickov. It is used to being a fucking bully without a challenger for the last two centuries. It is coming to a close. Because the party is over. They mocked Russia for imploding in 1991 and they mocked China for its isolationist policies and backwardness in the 1970s and now if the USA falls? It is because of DUMBNESS and lack of learning the lessons of history. The white racist mentality is deeply engrained in the USA along with capitalism and it has corrupted both major parties and the parties do not want democracy if it means having to deal with sharing wealth and power with the people who are working and not being paid enough and are TIRED of the bullshit.

The USA is close to being riven by a fascist disorganized mess of a mythology. Why? Too many people thinking like you do? That they are exceptional in the human pantheon of nations. They are not. They are humans with enormous defects. The only way out is for them to stop lying to themselves and accepting that they are power hungry, pig racist greedy people in charge and they need to get those selfish pigs out of power as soon as possible, and stop denying that the USA has to stop with the bad policies and bad governance. The corruption is bad for all human societies. Nothing exceptional about any of it. It is well known what a corrupt, class conscious society does to all people. It does not matter if the corruption is Mexican, Chinese, French, American, Australian, Japanese or any other nationality. It is corrosive crap. But it exists because people work hard and do everything by the book....and they never see the results and they live with the same lack of justice for centuries that is always swept under the rug.

You can not do that. You got to rip that damn puss filled wound and face the consequences, and accept the responsibilities of FAILURE and LYING, and GREED and false values. And CHANGE before it is too late. All imperial nations fall because of over exploitation of the people and the resources. Once that happens? It is decline and destruction. It is inevitable. Period.

It is for the homo sapien species. The Pandemic affects all of us. Because all of us are interconnected. If we fail to cooperate and have compassion for others in other cultures, nations and backgrounds? There is no solution to any of this. Ever. I get sick of the ones who continue with the power of MYTH. It is a fucking Myth...that the USA is somehow benevolent.

It is not. They murdered, they stole, they lied, they cheated and they betrayed their founding principles. They did not create equality, or justice for all. They went for class systems and privilege. They have to stop the lies and get straight about what happened in the USA for hundreds of years and stop the false values that somehow God favors them over others. God favors no one over others. The reason all humanity has similar issues in this world? Is because we are all one....lost together or found together.
#15210585
Pants-of-dog wrote:Well, you did argue that only democracies should be allowed to exercise national sovereignty.

If places like the USA are oligarchies, then these countries would also not ge allowed to exercise national sovereignty according to your argument.


In theory yes, but as I said in the second post, democracies in effect still need custodians to defend them from foreign invasions. The USA does not just fight for itself in this case, no matter how much they want themselves to be "just for themselves".


Pants-of-dog wrote:Not in Latin America, which is the area under discussion.


Those defecting to Russia and or China will suffer miserably and regret their choice. Wait and see.

Those sticking with Taiwan are much wiser.



Pants-of-dog wrote:And again, we are discussing Latin America, not the USA.


Then tell Tainari88 to fuck off from you as well. I had not mentioned USA in my first post. She started it.
#15210586
Tainari88 wrote:I do not give a damn about your subjective opinion based on sheer BULLSHIT Patrickov.


I did not underestimate the problems of USA but even you admit that China and Russia are worse, which is my whole point, because there are significant amount of people effectively endorse Chinese and / or Russian aggression just out of their spite against the USA, that dictatorships around the world got a boost.

On the other hands, countries like South Korea, Indonesia and Taiwan got better and successfully overthrew their previous dictatorships despite the said dictatorships being pro-Western. Likewise, Latin American countries under American oppression also had their chances. For example, Chile walked out of the Pinochet era.

I can't say the same for countries like Belarus and / or Syria, whose dictators turned to Russians for their rescue and their people continue to suffer.

As long as you continue prioritize USA atrocities before Chinese and / or Russian atrocities I will treat your whole post as BULLSHIT.

From your sincere condemnation against my point, I have conceded that we are natural enemies and there is little if any space of dialogue between us. Should there be a war between China and USA, and should Mexico chooses to be on China's side, I will concede that we might have to kill each other.
#15210587
If Russia wants to do it, and Cuba agrees, go for it. But I wouldn't expect the Americans to sit down and watch just as they didn't in 1962, and given 2021 happened I'm guessing there'd be plenty of Cubans willing to work with the Americans to replace the communist gerontocracy. I'd tread carefully if I were in their shoes, given that Americans could show up there really quickly.

If I were Russia I'd try to do this in Venezuela or Nicaragua, that seems far more feasible IMO.
#15210599
Patrickov wrote:From your sincere condemnation against my point, I have conceded that we are natural enemies and there is little if any space of dialogue between us. Should there be a war between China and USA, and should Mexico chooses to be on China's side, I will concede that we might have to kill each other.

#15210624
Patrickov wrote:In theory yes, but as I said in the second post, democracies in effect still need custodians to defend them from foreign invasions. The USA does not just fight for itself in this case, no matter how much they want themselves to be "just for themselves".


No. You are basing this on the incorrect assumption that the US fights for democracy in Latin America. This is not only incorrect, but the exact opposite of the truth.

The US fights against democracy in Latin America.

Those defecting to Russia and or China will suffer miserably and regret their choice. Wait and see.

Those sticking with Taiwan are much wiser.


Your hatred of China is irrelevant.

Then tell Tainari88 to fuck off from you as well. I had not mentioned USA in my first post. She started it.


By supporting US intervention in Latin America, you are supporting dictatorship and imperialism.

In other words, you support the exact same things that you claim China does.

To be blunt:

In Latin America, the US is worse than Russia and China put together when it comes to supporting dictatorships and human rights abuses.
#15210632
wat0n wrote:Right now it is China and Russia who support the current dictatorships in the region


Provide evidence for this claim.

No doubt we will see things like a trade deal between China and Cuba, i.e. normal business practices just like US companies have with Cuba.

In contrast, the US armed and trained people who went on to torture dissidents.

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