Joe Biden greenlights Russian 'incursion' into the Ukraine - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15208569
Beren wrote:So I inherently misunderstood you, although you seem to only have semantic problems with what I said. :lol:

Anyway, Putin was on the offensive during the populist wave in the Trump-Brexit era, but the tide has turned since then. He's on the defensive now, even though he's posturing and flexing muscles, and roaring as loud as he can, as a lion does to warn and intimidate (possible) intruders. He may be aggressive towards Ukraine, but Ukraine's only a pawn in this game.


For Putin sure, it is a pawn but in reality it is an independent actor and a state of its own. The problem with Putins actions is that he inherently misjudges the risk I think that he believes that Ukranian army can be steamrolled and there will be no resistance. It might be the case of his own propaganda getting to his head. I am not sure on that one.

I am still inclined to believe that he is not that far in to the loony bin and is a rational actor within the limitations of his crony corrupt regime. But once again, he is desperate and if he doesn't get a win from NATO then perhaps a massive invasion is only thing that he has left if he doesn't want to loose power in Russia. Alternative are NK style crackdowns and camps i suppose and that is a rout that even he won't be able to go I think since his corrupt cronies still need to spend their money somewhere and send their children to Europe and US for living and education.
#15208572
News is out that thousands of American missiles are pouring into Ukraine.

"Ukrainian service members unload anti-tank weapons supplied by Britain, which this week flew some 2,000 short-range anti-tank missiles to Kyiv © via REUTERS"

Financial Times wrote...
"Three Baltic countries are sending anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles to Ukraine as a group of European countries try to help Kyiv defend itself better against potential Russian aggression."

"The move, which follows a British dispatch this week of anti-tank weapons to Kyiv, highlights a split among European powers about whether to arm Ukraine and risk provoking Moscow."

"Estonia was providing Ukraine with Javelin anti-tank weapons while Latvia and Lithuania were sending Stinger anti-aircraft missiles and other equipment including thermal sights after receiving permission from the US, the three countries’ defence ministers said on Friday."
#15208655
Beren wrote:It's a pawn for the US even more because to them it's just a poor and vulnerable far-away country at the end of the world that is totally dependent on them and most Americans don't even know and care about.


Is it? Or is this your prejudice talking?

If it is just a pawn then what reason does the US have to jump through all these hoops to prevent a war in Ukraine? Why is Europe doing it also(Excluding the German pussies)?

Surely if you view it from purely realpolitik kind of view then what is the point of this de-escalation. From a realpolitik/realist point of view that there are only superpowers/Strong powers and puppets(simplified version) then you would expect US and Europe to only encourage Russia to attack while shipping weapons to Ukraine in secret so to make sure that this war would drain Russian resources.
#15208668
Rancid wrote:@JohnRawls

Looks like France/Germany are going to cut a deal with Russia. Russia will pull out, and will have effectively undermined and driven a wedge in NATO based on whatever he gets from France and Germany.


France is not going to cut a deal. Germany alone is not enough although the likelihood of Germany making a deal is slim.
#15208674
JohnRawls wrote:Is it? Or is this your prejudice talking?


Of course it is.

JohnRawls wrote:If it is just a pawn then what reason does the US have to jump through all these hoops to prevent a war in Ukraine? Why is Europe doing it also(Excluding the German pussies)?


Beren, like most of you Eastern Europeans including yourself(bar this obvious instance here), trusts in Germany. He will jump through any hoop to validate the German position, however ridiculous or pathetic that may be.

I have the exact same opinion for you. The only reason you changed tune now is because Germany forbade your own country to sell German-made weapons to the Ukraine, thus smacking you in the face with a wet-towel, hence your awakening to the German position. Other than that you are both validators of the German position as a matter of religion.
#15208675
JohnRawls wrote:If it is just a pawn then what reason does the US have to jump through all these hoops to prevent a war in Ukraine?

They only mean to prevent a major war in Ukraine, which Putin also doesn't want anyway, but they wouldn't mind a limited armed conflict between Russia and Ukraine, a Russian "incursion" into Ukraine as they say.
#15208697
noemon wrote:Of course it is.



Beren, like most of you Eastern Europeans including yourself(bar this obvious instance here), trusts in Germany. He will jump through any hoop to validate the German position, however ridiculous or pathetic that may be.

I have the exact same opinion for you. The only reason you changed tune now is because Germany forbade your own country to sell German-made weapons to the Ukraine, thus smacking you in the face with a wet-towel, hence your awakening to the German position. Other than that you are both validators of the German position as a matter of religion.


??

Estonia sold arms anyways, this is not something that Germany can forbid.
#15208777
noemon wrote:Germany did and Estonia did not sell any German(bulk of its military hardware) weapons to the Ukraine.

https://www.reuters.com/article/germany ... SL1N2U123W


We sent ammo and anti-tank Javelins though. Too bad we couldn't send the mortars and some artillery too. Didn't actually know that original manufacturers can block that but apparently yeah, any original manufacturer can block exports to 3rd parties.
#15208785
Beren wrote:Would you send tactical nukes as well if you could? Maybe there'll be a Russian "incursion" into Estonia rather than Ukraine. :lol:


Why hasn't anybody tried invading any NATO country ever? I wonder why.... :roll:
#15208789
Beren wrote:What do you think NATO would do if Russia invaded you? Do you think they'd go to war for you? There'd be super-tough sanctions imposed for sure, though. :lol:


There would be war against Russia from all NATO member states.
#15208791
JohnRawls wrote:There would be war against Russia from all NATO member states.

Indeed? :lol:

The Russians would get invading you completed before NATO could even decide if what they should do, then they'd decide to do some bullshit. It hasn't happened yet only because the Russians haven't yet had a good enough reason for doing so, I'd suggest you Estonians keep it that way.
#15208792
Beren wrote:Indeed? :lol:

The Russians would get invading you completed before NATO could even decide if what they should do, then they'd decide to do some bullshit. It hasn't happened yet only because the Russians haven't yet had a good enough reason for doing so, I'd suggest you Estonians keep it that way.


May be in your mind. While totally ignoring ww1 and ww2 historical precedents on how those wars started.
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