[QatzelOk]

@QatzelOk is coming off as very capitalist right now.

Only because SpecialOlympian has a monopoly on state media.

He could tell you that your mother was a bus, and next thing you know, you'd be out shopping for tires for her.

[Drlee]

@Rich

Well not if I got my way. I'd happily, nay joyfully see the whole of the West, burnt to the ground rather than submit to the vaccine fascists.

I'm sure their mothers and fathers, husbands and wives will take great comfort in your glee at the death of their loved ones.

Now you don't need to particularly worry about my opinion ...

That is a great comfort to me. I was planning on worrying.

.....as my combination of political tendencies is pretty unique.

Don't bet on it.

However there are tens of millions if not hundreds of millions men, women and even young adults that take a "holistic" attitude towards health. For a great many of them this is a very important issue.

Fuck them. If you are a vegan and let your children starve rather than eat a cow you are not principled. You are a fool and a murderer.

By the way, there really is no "holistic attitude towards health". It is just a cant phrase; meaningless to medical practitioners outside of marketing.

[XogGyux]

I am saddened to say today I had another ICU admission with covid. Now I have 2 and our ICU is now half-filled with covid. We just had 1 full month with no covids there, and although last week I had like 10 covid patients they were mostly incidental covids and not with serious respiratory issues except for one. We are seeing a surge in ICU admissions.
So far does not look nearly as bad/chaotic as delta wave but this is getting exhausting. The ICU docs and ER docs I talk with are drained. Last week our hospital had nearly 100 nurses calling out because they were sick or positive for covid. The ones we do have, they are all sick, tired. They are constantly mistreated by the administration, by families that are concerned about their loved ones and perceive the nurses as the evil guards that are prohibiting their visitations. This is physically exhausting, psychological torture.

[colliric]

Told you discussing turning out anti-vax patients based on you being overwhelmed in ICU was a stupid idea. Vaccinated people are the ones less likely to need ICU anyway, and the virus is indeed getting weaker.

You're not actually going to get overwhelmed in terms of patient numbers, your going to get overwhelmed because of staff shortages made worse by idiotic vaccine mandates resulting in people getting fired or protesting. Although I agree with it being the hospital's(or State health department) discretion over if staff should be vaccinated, most should decide they need the extra workers anyway.

[XogGyux]

Told you discussing turning out anti-vax patients based on you being overwhelmed in ICU was a stupid idea. Vaccinated people are the ones less likely to need ICU anyway, and the virus is indeed getting weaker.

You're not actually going to get overwhelmed in terms of patient numbers, your going to get overwhelmed because of staff shortages made worse by idiotic vaccine mandates resulting in people getting fired or protesting. Although I agree with it being the hospital's(or State health department) discretion over if staff should be vaccinated, most should decide they need the extra workers anyway.

Did you even read what I said. The nurses calling out are out due to being sick with covid, not due to not being vaccinated. My hospital, here in FL, Is not really enforcing vaccines. Nurses are not being sent home because they skipped a shot....
Also, another thing that is draining our time, is endless discussions with family. Today I spent 2h talking to the same family. It is very difficult, and I MUST make time for them because unfortunately, they are not able to see their loves ones at this time, and perhaps they won't see them alive at all ever again, certainly very unlikely for my 2 ICU admissions. So the least I can do, is speak with the family and give them as much time as they need. However, being having the patience to deal with them, especially when more often than not they suggest using "medical therapies" that take a long time to address their concerns.

[colliric]

I didn't realise you're in Florida, sorry.

Supermarket workers are having the same problem as you. Staff shortages and lack of supply everywhere. I'm being asked to go back to 5 shifts personally.

You should be trying to sell them the traditional technology vaccine (Novavax), since it's being rolled out presumably in your country too. Some will take you up on that one, because they just don't trust new technology vaccines. And point out Astrazeneca vaccine is different to the other two, based on Viral Vector "gives you a cold" technology.

[Drlee]

@XogGyux It is exhausting. You are doing heroic work.

Got up in the grill of a homeless woman at the clinic on Sunday. After telling us her blood pressure was "way up" she then tells me, 10 minutes later, as I sit two feet from her, that she thinks she has Covid. So I gave her the Binax and sure enough, positive. Her 75 year old, unvaccinated, friend had been badly beaten. I spent an hour cleaning him up and sending him to the OR. Today he comes back and his discharge papers show him positive. I had on an N95, goggles, gloves, scrubs and lab coat, hat.... but today I have been a bit under the weather. I will test myself in the AM.

You know Colliric, for some of us this is personal. Either side of the issue, political opinions do not matter at this point. People are getting sick and they are dying. Health care workers are dropping like flies and leaving the ones who are not sick to do double and triple duty. People who need procedures cannot have them done because either it is too risky or there are no facilities available.

I would really appreciate it if you would stop playing the same old right wing bullshit. As you said, the problem is people who are not vaccinated and boosted. These are not generally far left folks. I am too tired right now to engage with you anymore. Just try to think like a compassionate human being and not an Amerian Republican dullard. When I have the swab up my 70 year old nose tomorrow I will try to remember your political position. I am sure it will be a comfort.

[SpecialOlympian]

Told you discussing turning out anti-vax patients based on you being overwhelmed in ICU was a stupid idea. Vaccinated people are the ones less likely to need ICU anyway, and the virus is indeed getting weaker.

You're not actually going to get overwhelmed in terms of patient numbers, your going to get overwhelmed because of staff shortages made worse by idiotic vaccine mandates resulting in people getting fired or protesting. Although I agree with it being the hospital's(or State health department) discretion over if staff should be vaccinated, most should decide they need the extra workers anyway.

The issue is that hospitals are not, and were not, not turning away people for being unvaccinated, and as a result people duped by the rightwing grift machine are occupying spaces that could have been made available to people with non-Covid related injuries requiring medical care.

DeSantis is very dedicated to killing his constituents and spreading covid as far and wide as possible so no wonder Xog is seeing another surge.

[colliric]

The biggest hospitalization surges are happening in my Country and in Israel. Two of the most vaccinated countries in the world.

Last I checked we're not run by the Republican party, we're being run by Labor at the moment.

You can't blame the Right-wingers for what's happening in Victoria and the anti-vaccine movement for what's happening in Israel (4 Shots, yet worse situation than in Florida). BOOM.

[SpecialOlympian]

Yeah, the key word here being surges. There have been numerous times over the past few years in the US where ICUs were expanded into the parking structures of hospitals. As is the definition of a surge, they will happen sporadically and then drop.

I would also like to know exactly how you are coming to this conclusion, because even if Israel or Australia currently have the highest number of hospitalizations that doesn't mean much without the context of per-capita. If it's spreading faster in these two countries but fewer people per 100,000 are ending up hospitalized (and needing less intensive care when they do) then the vaccines are doing their job.

And yes, I can blame rightwingers for anti-vax propaganda because they are the primary proponents of it. Rightwing thought inherently rejects anything that can materially benefit society, and rejecting vaccines against disease is a completely logical and normal extension of that.

[Rich]

And yes, I can blame rightwingers for anti-vax propaganda because they are the primary proponents of it.

There may be some truth to that in the United States, but its just not true in Britain. In Britain the most prominent anti-vaxxer is Piers Corbyn, brother of Jeremy Corbyn. He started off as a squatters rights activist, joined the International Marxist Group and then was a Labour Councillor for many years, hardly a right winger. I suspect most anti-vaxxers vote Green or Labour if they vote anything at all. I bet hardy any vote UKIP and even less Tory.

There has been a widening split amongst the Greens / environmentalists / permaculturists / hippies / new-agers over recent years. The top levels of the Green party and some organisations have become increasingly Cultural Marixst or Woke and or totally on board with the Corporatist control agenda. While others reject Agenda 21 and Agenda 30. Many reject green house gas caused AGW and at the severe extreme you even get flat earthers.

There are many causes for this extreme alienation but a very big factor was the reaction to 9/11 by W.Bush and Barack Hussein Obama. They both pushed the three principles:

1 It was not done by Muslims
2 It had nothing to with Islam
3 The hijackers and Al Qaeda had no assistance from Pakistani or Saudi government officials

Given one's adherence to the 3 dogmas, belief in an inside job was entirely rationale and in many alternative circles believing that it was not an inside job, as I do, became a fringe belief. This contributed greatly to the fall in trust in government authority.

[Drlee]

You can't blame the Right-wingers for what's happening in Victoria and the anti-vaccine movement for what's happening in Israel (4 Shots, yet worse situation than in Florida). BOOM.

You need to post a source for this. Because:

Israel has, so far, 2,599,466 cases resulting in 8,513 deaths. This is a country with a population of 9.5 million people.

The state of Arizona has 7.3 million people. It has had 1,781,275 cases resulting in 25,724 deaths. If the vaccinations don't work @Colliric why is Arizona doing so very much worse than Israel?

Then to further put bullshit to you lies as of today:

Israel has 725,754 Currently Infected Patients resulting in 724,839 (99.9%) in Mild Condition with a mere 915 people serious or critical. This is absolute proof that their vaccination program is not only working it is working magnificently.

So go sell your made up bullshit somewhere else.

And yes. We can blame Republicans. They are fighting the same kinds of rules that has your own country sitting pretty at 158th in deaths per million and virtually leading the second and first world countries.

[SpecialOlympian]

Only because SpecialOlympian has a monopoly on state media.

He could tell you that your mother was a bus, and next thing you know, you'd be out shopping for tires for her.

Damn @Rancid, are you gonna let Qatz call you lazy AND stupid?

[colliric]

You need to post a source for this. Because:

Israel has, so far, 2,599,466 cases resulting in 8,513 deaths. This is a country with a population of 9.5 million people.

Your numbers are wrong, because you don't even know Israel's population. Provide a source for the 9.5 number.

Here's a source for it being in reality 8.8 million:
https://www.worldometers.info/world-pop ... ons%20data.

You're living in 2027 mate. They're not quite there yet, slow down.

Edit: Oh you used Wikipedia and they used the Jerusalem Post. Lol.

My source is the UN's population projection:
https://www.un.org/development/desa/pd/

Encyclopaedia Britannica:
https://www.britannica.com/place/Israel

Further digging "(8.8 million number) does not include Israelis in the West Bank(i.e Settlers)"

Sorry mate I consider the West Bank and Gaza to be Palestine, so your figure is a lie to me. Those extra people are living in Palestine and should be counted as the population of the West Bank, NOT Israel.

[Godstud]

So, @colliric, the only thing you can come up with that youcan argue against, is being off of the population count by .5 million people? A number that is off by this much depending on the source you use.

Israel's population at nearly 9.5 million as it enters 2022
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-690169



Your argument is shit, and even YOU know it.

[colliric]

The 9.5 million count is deceptive, since it includes individuals occupying a foreign country. 8.8 million in Israel proper. Anyway this is off topic.

[Drlee]

The 9.5 million count is deceptive, since it includes individuals occupying a foreign country. 8.8 million in Israel proper. Anyway this is off topic.

Fuck "off topic". You posted the bullshit. And even if we accept your numbers it does not change my point.

So you got caught selling lies and don't like it? I don't blame you.

[jaminhealth]

There is nothing definite out there on all this mess. Lies from early on and the lies continue going into year 3. People die from covid and MANY have major health issues before tested for the covid, so many die WITH covid, but that is not primary.....so they are all lumped together. Madness...

[jaminhealth]

Covid?

Dr. Robert Malone
Dr. Peter McCullough
Dr. Judy Mikovits
Dr. Kelly Victory
Dr. Christine Northrup

And so many American FrontLine Doctors.

[Godstud]

There is nothing definite out there on all this mess. Lies from early on and the lies continue going into year 3. People die from covid and MANY have major health issues before tested for the covid, so many die WITH covid, but that is not primary.....so they are all lumped together. Madness...

The madness is people like you who don't like the reality, and so make up lies about Covid not killing people, when it categorically and scientifically does.

This conspiracy theory of all the doctors in the world misdiagnosing causes of death is just plain foolish.