South Korea opening itself up to naturalization of non-citizens - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15177168
This has long been something that's gone on in English-speaking and Western European countries.
But now the Asian country of South Korea seems to be beginning to do it too.

Allowing easy access of citizenship to foreigners who are not Korean.

How do you think this will end?


some highlights from the article:

Naturalization was rare in South Korea until the early 2000s -- just 33 foreigners gained South Korean citizenship in 2000, for example -- but rose to nearly 14,000 last year, immigration data show.

More than 70% of the 865,000 Chinese nationals residing in South Korea are of Korean descent, according to immigration data.
(having parents or grandparents who once lived in Korea but then migrated to China a hundred years ago)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/so ... d=msedgntp

It looks like there is a big backlash and many Koreans are not happy about the government proposal to reduce the restrictions.
Some of them are afraid they'll be overrun and their Korean culture will be completely wiped out. Then China will dominate them.
#15180967
Compared to Australia which until recently has been encouraging a mass influx to pump up GDP numbers and sustain the housing boom, Korea is quite pragmatic about immigration. The demographics here are really shifting towards an older population, and like Japan, the country is trying to counter that trend.

There are increasing numbers of South East Asian migrants from ASEAN countries initially coming either as students, skilled workers or for marriage to Koreans (especially in rural areas). Gaining citizenship is a lengthy process. I have a F class visa which is basically similar to provisional permanent residency ... but I'm not really interested in citizenship as it would mean giving up my Australian/UK citizenship, as they don't allow dual citizenship.

If they're astute, they will draw upon emerging migrant populations to build international trade links. But the way the mindset works here ... that opportunity may well be wasted in a wash of status based social positioning.
#15181099
About 9,000 to 11,000 Koreans naturalize in Japan every year out of the 600,000-strong Zainichi community. When it comes to East Asians in Japan, it is hard to tell the difference unless they have a foreign surname such as Kim or accent as Thomas Bach infamously mixed up Japanese and Chinese at a Tokyo 2020 press conference.



When Japan was an empire, all Koreans were Japanese citizens by law. It is good for long-term residents to become a naturalized citizen. When they are naturalized, they are less likely to face discrimination by assuming a Japanese identity in Japan or a Korean identity in Korea. Historically, Koreans received substantial gene flow from Han Chinese and Japanese, and it also happened between Han Chinese and Japanese, thus reducing the genetic differentiation between the three ethnic groups (Wang et al. 2018). But the situation is totally different in Australia, where Aboriginals are allowed to take English surnames, since they are still visible minorities even after the name change.

Image

Asian samples location and population relatedness. (a) Geographic location of the sampled populations (generated by R 2.15.2 and Microsoft PowerPoint 2010); (b) Principal component analysis (PCA) of all the 10 Asian sample populations

We detected substantial gene flow among the three populations and also from the surrounding populations. For example, based on our analysis with the F3 test, Korean received gene flow from Han Chinese and Japanese, and gene flow also happened between Han Chinese and Japanese (Additional file 12: Table S3). These gene flows are expected to have reduced the genetic differentiation between the three ethnic groups. On the other hand, we also detected considerable gene flow from surrounding populations to the three populations studied. For instance, an ancestral population represented by Ryukyuan have contributed greater to Japanese than to Han Chinese, while southern ethnic group like Dai have contributed more to continent populations than to island and peninsula populations. Contrary to the gene flow among the three populations, these gene flows from surrounding populations are expected to have increased genetic difference among the three populations if they occurred independently and from different source populations. According to our results, the major source of gene flow to the three ethnic groups were substantially different, for example, the major source of gene flow to Han Chinese was from southern ethnic groups, the major source of gene flow to Japanese was from southern islands, and the major source of gene flow to Korean were from both mainland and islands. Therefore, those gene flows might have significantly contributed to further genetic differentiation of the three populations.

The three populations have similar but not identical demographical history; they all experience a strong population expansion in the last 20,000 years. However, according to different geographic distribution, their effective population size and population expansion are different. North Han Chinese has greater Ne than south Han Chinese in early time. Japanese and Korean have similar Ne in most of the history, while Korean population expanded much faster than Japanese in recent thousands of years, suggested a higher potential for population expansion in peninsula than in islands. Our estimation showed that Han Chinese have much greater expansion speed than Japanese and Korean, suggested continental environment has even higher potential for population expansion than peninsula or islands. However, the estimated Ne increase in East Asian populations could be, at least partially, explained by recent population admixture which is expected to increase population genetic diversity thus increase Ne.

Finally, as we briefly mentioned above, natural selection might have substantially contributed to the genetic diversity of the populations. We identified several genomic regions with significant differentiation between Han Chinese, Japanese and Korean. For example, most highly differentiated SNPs enriched in the genes that related to neurological system process and cell-cell signal transmission. There are also significant selective signals in detected in EGF-like domain and Collagen-like domain. The physiological significance and evolutionary importance of these selective signals needed more study.

https://hereditasjournal.biomedcentral. ... 018-0057-5
#15203876
I think South Koreans are mainly concerned about two things. First Chinese immigrants. Due to China's huge population, Chinese immigrants could quickly overrun them. The Chinese government does have expansionist aims and has used population movement in the past to secure outlying provinces in its West (so-called "sinicization", moving Han ethnic population to dominate territory so they will be loyal to the national government in Beijing. The Russian Soviets made use of this strategy too), and there is also the ideological clash, with the "Communist" Chinese-style of government wanting to dominate over the Democratic capitalist system of government of the type that exists in South Korea.

And then Africans, who will not fit so well into regimented and disciplined (Northeastern Asian) Korean society.
(There will be a "cultural" clash)
Plenty could be said about this.

I talked to an old Korean woman who grew up in the 1960s and she told me that her entire village was dirt poor, in ways that an American would not be able to believe or understand, but still there was absolutely no crime in her village and everything was completely safe.
I will ask a question: Where in Africa would you be able to find such a situation as that?

What a lot of this comes down to is strictness and cultural values. I'm not sure you'll find anywhere else in the world that is as family-oriented as traditional Korean culture.
#15210486
Rancid wrote:I proposal China accepts immigrants as well. This way we can send all the CCP bootlickers over there.


They very welcome bootlickers moving there. It's the bootlickers who are being hypocrites (except the likes of Fasces)

In fact, I wish China can engage in some population exchange scheme, and fund people like us move to Five Eyes countries in exchange of leftards living there (e.g. Igor Antunov) and let all of us not to interfere one another thereafter. I am sure this will be a four-way "win-win-win-win" situation.
#15210489
Patrickov wrote:They very welcome bootlickers moving there. It's the bootlickers who are being hypocrites (except the likes of Fasces)

In fact, I wish China can engage in some population exchange scheme, and fund people like us move to Five Eyes countries in exchange of leftards living there (e.g. Igor Antunov) and let all of us not to interfere one another thereafter. I am sure this will be a four-way "win-win-win-win" situation.


You are rather naive. Autocratic states can't let that happen. Well being of average European and American is like 4-5 times higher so that would raise questions when they return as to why.

This is the basis of why Russia experiences times of severe isolation after events that forced Russia to open up. The largest example for this is the Napoleonic war when Russian troops stormed Paris and the consequence of that was that millions of Russian soldiers, officers and nobility saw Europe which led to liberalisation of Russian society over time which the future Tsars had to crack down on.
#15210492
JohnRawls wrote:This is the basis of why Russia experiences times of severe isolation after events that forced Russia to open up. The largest example for this is the Napoleonic war when Russian troops stormed Paris and the consequence of that was that millions of Russian soldiers, officers and nobility saw Europe which led to liberalisation of Russian society over time which the future Tsars had to crack down on.


This particular example happened when Russia won a big war and entered the place effectively as conquerors. I simply don't feel right.
#15210496
@Patrickov , @JohnRawls,

China would never accept immigrants en masse, as it would run exactly counter to their goals of a homogeneous culture that promotes "Harmony, Stability, & nationalism". This is why they are genociding the Uighurs for example. True modern day Nazi's, no hyperbole, no exaggeration. In short, they are going the opposite way, if anything.
#15210497
Patrickov wrote:This particular example happened when Russia won a big war and entered the place effectively as conquerors. I simply don't feel right.


Napoleon might have been a very "progressive" person in history but he still was an autocrat, conqueror and so on. Also Russia didn't win on its own, it took 4 powers to take down France. Russia didn't and couldn't win alone.

Napoleonic war was one of the opening events due to war and historically war was the main reason why millions of people have to travel somewhere.

And if you don't like war then perhaps Gorbachovs perestroika is another example which is not war related.
#15210498
Rancid wrote:@Patrickov , @JohnRawls,

China would never accept immigrants en masse, as it would run exactly counter to their goals of a homogeneous culture that promotes "Harmony, Stability, & nationalism". This is why they are genociding the Uighurs for example. True modern day Nazi's, no hyperbole, no exaggeration. In short, they are going the opposite way, if anything.


There are 1.4 billion Chinese with that number starting to decrease now but realistically they can't get enough immigrants to actually put a dent to that number. So worrying about such a thing is stupid.
#15210503
JohnRawls wrote:There are 1.4 billion Chinese with that number starting to decrease now but realistically they can't get enough immigrants to actually put a dent to that number. So worrying about such a thing is stupid.


You mean China worrying about "Harmony and Stability" is a stupid thing to worry about? Of course.. still....

I agree, but they will worry about it anyway, because it's the only way the CCP will be able to hold their power. One could argue it is futile and they will eventually fail, but they are certainly going to hold on for as long as they can. It will take a long time for the CCP to collapse and lose it's power. In the meantime, lots of innocence people are getting to be killed and/or subjected to their tyranny.

Any path other than this current one will result in the CCP using control sooner. This current path will take the longest though, so that's why they are going down this one.
#15210566
Rancid wrote:China would never accept immigrants en masse, as it would run exactly counter to their goals of a homogeneous culture that promotes "Harmony, Stability, & nationalism". This is why they are genociding the Uighurs for example. True modern day Nazi's, no hyperbole, no exaggeration. In short, they are going the opposite way, if anything.


As JohnRawls said, China is so massive in population that they won't fear this. The only threat is the Hindi but they don't get along with the Chinese anyways.

More importantly, the Chinese want to be the next United States. Whether they are capable of that is another question.

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