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#15208908
ckaihatsu wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-Worldism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maoism%E2 ... d_Worldism

I think those theories are a little out of date, given the end of the Cold War. I am a proponent of world systems theory though, and dependency theory to an extent.

I'm not anti-Marxism, especially as a frame of analysis, but i'm definitely not a fan of Leninism and similar as a system of economy. I'm a big believer in the 'development state' model for global south countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developmental_state
#15208913
Unthinking Majority wrote:
I think those theories are a little out of date, given the end of the Cold War. I am a proponent of world systems theory though, and dependency theory to an extent.

I'm not anti-Marxism, especially as a frame of analysis, but i'm definitely not a fan of Leninism and similar as a system of economy. I'm a big believer in the 'development state' model for global south countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developmental_state




In states that were late to industrialize, the state itself led the industrialization drive, that is, it took on developmental functions.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developmental_state



If Third Worldism is post-Cold-War out-of-date, then isn't 'developmental state' theory *also* out-of-date as well?

How should presently underdeveloped countries / economies be handled, do you think?

Do you subscribe to two-stage theory?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-stage_theory
#15209029
ckaihatsu wrote:If Third Worldism is post-Cold-War out-of-date, then isn't 'developmental state' theory *also* out-of-date as well?


Yes dependency theory is a bit out of date too, hence my addition "to an extent".

How should presently underdeveloped countries / economies be handled, do you think?


I'm not really sure about two-stage theory, since no country has arguably had a very successful communist economy it's hard to say. China kind of did the reverse - communism, then capitalism or mixed-system.

As I said, for underdeveloped economic countries I go with the "developmental state". Which says a developing state, within a capitalist economy (globally and domestically), needs to have a strong government with strong gov institutions in order to guide their economy an trade, regulate it, and keep foreign investment from harshly exploiting the country. This was the mistake of neoliberalism decades ago in developing countries: too much free-market capitalism.

If you look at China, they have been open to capitalist reforms, but they also control what kind of foreign investment/trade is or isn't allowed to protect certain industries etc. They don't let any and all foreign corporations come in destroy domestic industries or suck out all the resources. South Korea also had strong state guidance during its growth the last several decades.
#15209044
Unthinking Majority wrote:
Yes dependency theory is a bit out of date too, hence my addition "to an extent".


Unthinking Majority wrote:
As I said, for underdeveloped economic countries I go with the "developmental state".



You're saying that *both* 'developmental theory' *and* 'dependency theory' are out-of-date, so it may not be historically appropriate to use *either* Cold War relic.


Unthinking Majority wrote:
I'm not really sure about two-stage theory, since no country has arguably had a very successful communist economy it's hard to say.



Two-stage theory has to do with the same topic as the above -- how *underdeveloped* economies should be addressed by society's social-organization, regardless of whatever form that may happen to be *right now*.

You're clearly *validating* capitalism as being a socio-motive force, even going-forward, though you admit to a limited amount of political fallout, conventionally known as 'imperialism'.

Here's from Lenin:



That for capitalism to generate greater profits than the home market can yield, the merging of banks and industrial cartels produces finance capitalism, and the exportation and investment of capital to countries with undeveloped and underdeveloped economies. In turn, that financial behaviour divides the world among monopolist business companies. In colonizing undeveloped countries, business and government will engage in geopolitical conflict over the exploitation of labour of most of the population of the world. Therefore, imperialism is the highest (advanced) stage of capitalism, requiring monopolies to exploit labour and natural resources, and the exportation of finance capital, rather than manufactured goods, to sustain colonialism, which is an integral function of imperialism. Moreover, in the capitalist homeland, the super-profits yielded by the colonial exploitation of a people and their economy permit businessmen to bribe native politicians, labour leaders and the labour aristocracy (upper stratum of the working class) to politically thwart worker revolt (labour strike) and placate the working class.[4][5]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperiali ... Capitalism



So -- I have to ask -- how does one manage to keep capitalism around while sustaining a bemoaning of its genocidal / world-war / mass-destruction foreign policy, *imperialism* -- ?


---


Unthinking Majority wrote:
China kind of did the reverse - communism, then capitalism or mixed-system.

As I said, for underdeveloped economic countries I go with the "developmental state". Which says a developing state, within a capitalist economy (globally and domestically), needs to have a strong government with strong gov institutions in order to guide their economy an trade, regulate it, and keep foreign investment from harshly exploiting the country. This was the mistake of neoliberalism decades ago in developing countries: too much free-market capitalism.

If you look at China, they have been open to capitalist reforms, but they also control what kind of foreign investment/trade is or isn't allowed to protect certain industries etc. They don't let any and all foreign corporations come in destroy domestic industries or suck out all the resources. South Korea also had strong state guidance during its growth the last several decades.



How's the foreign-investment-capital-versus-Evergrande-finance-pool thing going to play out, do you think -- ?
#15211667
Well I see democrats did their level best to get rid of Virginia Democrat Governor Ralph "Blackface" Northam, Virginia Democrat Attorney General Mark "Blackface" Herring, and Virginia Democrat Lieutenant Governor Justin "Sexual Assault" Fairfax back in 2019 when a bunch of unseemly news came to light. Oh wait, they didn't act, because it would diminish democrat power.

So how concerned is the DNC about racism and violence against women? Just when it's convenient?
#15211681
BlutoSays wrote:
Well I see democrats did their level best to get rid of Virginia Democrat Governor Ralph "Blackface" Northam, Virginia Democrat Attorney General Mark "Blackface" Herring, and Virginia Democrat Lieutenant Governor Justin "Sexual Assault" Fairfax back in 2019 when a bunch of unseemly news came to light. Oh wait, they didn't act, because it would diminish democrat power.


BlutoSays wrote:
So how concerned is the DNC about racism and violence against women? Just when it's convenient?



Yeah, basically -- since nothing was done about the cop shooting of Jacob Blake:



Public

Main articles: Kenosha unrest, Kenosha unrest shooting, and Commitment March: Get Your Knee Off Our Necks

Protests followed, leading Kenosha County to declare a state of emergency overnight on August 24 after police vehicles were damaged, a dump truck set on fire, and the local courthouse vandalized. An officer was knocked down with a brick, and tear gas was deployed.[27][61][62] Police urged 24-hour businesses to consider closing because of numerous calls about armed robberies and shots being fired,[63] and the Wisconsin National Guard was deployed to maintain public safety. Up to 200 members were to be deployed.[64] On August 24, the protesters set fires and looted businesses for a second night.[65][66] On August 25, the protests and fires continued throughout Kenosha, and civilians armed with guns patrolled parts of the city.[67]

On August 25, two people were killed and a third seriously wounded;[68] on the following day, a 17-year-old male by the name of Kyle Rittenhouse, turned himself in to police in Antioch, Illinois. The youth was charged with first-degree intentional homicide.[69][70] His defense lawyers argued that the shootings were in self-defense.[71] On November 19, 2021, in a unanimous jury verdict, Rittenhouse was acquitted of all five charges.[72]

Public protests regarding Blake's shooting occurred in many other cities, including New York, Minneapolis, Los Angeles, and Atlanta.[73]

Sports

Main article: 2020 American athlete boycotts

Multiple professional sports teams went on strike in protest, refusing to play their scheduled games.[74] In the NBA Bubble, the Milwaukee Bucks boycotted their August 26 first-round playoff game against the Orlando Magic in protest of the shooting. The team decided not to come out of their locker room minutes before the scheduled start to the game.[75] Later that day, the National Basketball Association (NBA) and the National Basketball Players Association announced that in light of the Bucks' decision to refuse to play, all NBA games for the day were postponed.[76] This led to other boycotts from other American sports leagues, including the Women's National Basketball Association (WNBA), Major League Baseball (MLB), the National Hockey League (NHL), and Major League Soccer (MLS).[74]



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