Russia-Ukraine War 2022 - Page 237 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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User avatar
By Wels
#15227790
It is official, Sweden and Finland are applying for Nato membership
The Swedish and the Finnish Parliament have approved and they have simultaneously sent the request.

A little bit about Blue Spear, an "anti-ship missile, developed jointly by Israeli Aerospace and Singapore’s ST Engineering, has only recently become operational but experts believe it is being considered for export to Ukraine"
https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/e ... er-threat/

About the russian Paltus class subs stationed in the black sea, called 'Kilo' by Nato
https://www.navygeneralboard.com/projec ... ilo-class/

What happened to Russia's announced war towards Poland?
https://www.newsweek.com/oleg-morozov-r ... nt-1706552

On a wider scale: NATO countries are not the ones humiliating Putin.
Putin and his inner circle of yes-men have single-handedly achieved being humiliated all by themselves, there is no one else too blame. If they don’t like being humiliated they can leave Ukraine, stop living in the past and work with, rather than against their European neighbours.
#15227792
Erdoğan dropped a bombshell today. Probably negotiations fell apart.

Turkey will not approve Sweden, Finland joining NATO: Erdoğan

President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan on Monday said Turkey will not approve Sweden and Finland's bid to join NATO, as he criticized them for failing to take a clear stance against terrorism.

Erdoğan’s remarks came after the Nordic countries officially announced their intention to apply for the membership of the military alliance after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, but Ankara has said it would block expansion.

Any membership bid must be unanimously approved by NATO’s 30 members.

“Neither of the countries has a clear stance against terror organizations,” Erdoğan told a joint news conference with Algerian counterpart Abdelmadjid Tebboune in the capital Ankara.

Erdoğan called Sweden a “hatchery” for terrorist organizations and added that they had terrorists in their parliament.

“First of all, we will not say ‘yes’ to those (countries) who apply sanctions to Turkey to join the security organization NATO,” he said.

Senior representatives of Sweden and Finland plan to travel to Turkey for talks to address Ankara’s objections, the Swedish foreign office said Monday.

However, Erdoğan said they “should not bother” coming to convince Turkey to approve their NATO bids.

“They say they will come to Turkey on Monday. Will they come to persuade us? Excuse us, but they shouldn’t bother,” he noted.

https://www.dailysabah.com/politics/dip ... to-erdogan
#15227793
Nah he just wants a prize, to save face and get out of the whole situation :D

Erdoğan’s move in NATO is not at all about blocking Sweden and Finland

"That Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan would throw another spanner in the works of NATO was, for his hard-boiled observers, clearly expected.

So, one could only be surprised that Turkey’s NATO allies and Nordic countries were actually surprised by Erdoğan’s statements on Friday that his government could not support the NATO applications of Sweden and Finland, given that they -- particularly the former -- were “harbouring PKK terrorists”.

It is also not surprising that Erdoğan’s chief advisor, İbrahim Kalın, had to intervene and water down his boss’s statement, saying that Turkey had not shut the door, meaning the stage was set for what Ankara wants to see as “grand bargaining”. Kalın has been following an ordinary pattern: Whenever Erdoğan, whose way of expressing himself in blunt terms is well-known, goes “too far”, he rushes in with a fire extinguisher at hand.

Later, the picture became slightly clearer, when Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu spoke after a NATO foreign ministers meeting in Berlin on Sunday. Sweden and Finland must stop supporting terrorist groups in their countries, provide clear security guarantees and lift all export bans on Turkey if they were to join NATO, said Çavuşuoğlu."


Otherwise Turkey could suddenly leave NATO, within an hour. Win-win.
Last edited by Wels on 16 May 2022 20:19, edited 3 times in total.
#15227794
Wels wrote:Nah he just wants a prize, to save face and get out of the whole situation :D
Otherwise Turkey could suddenly leave NATO, within an hour. Win-win.

Nobody can get Turkey out of it. As I told earlier, Sweden and Finland's bids are born dead.
#15227797
Beren wrote:That'll be remembered. ;) Would you also dare put it in your signature, please? :lol:

What makes you not believe it?

Sweden and Finland cannot be members unless Turkey approves them. That is just a fact.
User avatar
By Beren
#15227798
Istanbuller wrote:What makes you not believe it?

Sweden and Finland cannot be members unless Turkey approves them. That is just a fact.

Already backpedaling? :lol: That's not what you said. ;)
User avatar
By Wels
#15227800
Seriously, apart from their macho behaviour i like the Turks living in Europe, the US, everywhere, it is also an advantage to have Turkey and its army in the NATO, agreed.
What i do not sympathize with is that Erdoghan has declared himself to be the forever head of the state (read: dictator), and that he tries to fall back to pre WW1 and make Turkey an islamic state again, throwing all achievements and treaties of the last century overboard.

Apart from Turks there are a lot of Kurds (turkish by nationality) living outside of Turkey. The kurdish PKK wanted to achieve the acceptance of equal rights for kurdish people living in Turkey, but Erdoghan would have nothing of that; instead he declared them as terrorists.
There are a few kurdish turkish and not-turkish kurdish terrorists, but it is not all of the PKK. There are turkish non-kurdish terrorists, but they are not all from Erdoghan's (only!) AK parti.
People trying to overthrow Erdoghan were mostly military personnel, and remembering Kemal Atatürk it is easy to see why; separation of church and state and all that which Erdoghan tries to roll back.
Erdoghan just blames it on anyone he does not like/could challenge his dictatorship.
But he will not live forever.

Time to come to one's senses, everywhere.
Last edited by Wels on 16 May 2022 20:35, edited 5 times in total.
User avatar
By Beren
#15227801
Istanbuller wrote:It is funny you just can't accept facts. It is NATO's second biggest army, Turkey, decides who to join the union. Deal with it.

Deal with it that you just made a fool of yourself due to your stupid jingoism and Erdogan-mania.

It's not a union but NATO. Freudian slip perhaps? ;)
#15227803
Beren wrote:Deal with it that you just made a fool of yourself due to your stupid jingoism and Erdogan-mania.

Are you telling us that Turkey should accept countries who backstab it from the back?

It is the US who can solve the problem. They should step in if they want Sweden and Finland in NATO. Turkey seeks an offer from the US.
User avatar
By Beren
#15227805
Istanbuller wrote:Are you telling us that Turkey should accept countries who backstab it from the back?

It is the US who can solve the problem. They should step in if they want Sweden and Finland in NATO. Turkey seeks an offer from the US.

But the US doesn't have a chance, right? Because Sweden's and Finland's NATO bids are born dead, as you told earlier. :lol:
#15227807
Beren wrote:But the US doesn't have a chance, right? Because Sweden's and Finland's NATO bid are born dead, as you told earlier. :lol:

It is again funny that you try to paint Turkey as a fool while it is actually behaving very rational and utilitarian. That is called politics. You should know how to negotiate.
User avatar
By Beren
#15227808
Istanbuller wrote:It is again funny that you try to paint Turkey as a fool

You're not Turkey and I'm not just trying, although it's you yourself rather than me painting you as a fool actually. Do you really believe you can just talk this away as if you're in a market place? :lol:
User avatar
By Rancid
#15227814
British intelligence claim Russia has lost 30% of its combat capable units/equipment that are in Ukraine/Donbas.

What is this number for Ukraine? I've heard claims that Ukraine has increased it's overall number of combat capable units and continues to train recruits to sustain engagements for months/years. No clear estimates on this. I'm sure it's for operational security reasons we don't hear much on this. The fact the Ukraine pushed Putinist forces out of Kharkv would suggest they still have a lot of capability.


US intelligence claims things are at a stalemate at this point. This is an embarrassment for Russia to even cede a stalemate.
User avatar
By Wels
#15227819
"Seriously wounded Azov fighters were evacuated from Azovstal and taken to Donetsk, occupied by Russia. Azov commander Denys Prokopenko asked the public not to blame them for this decision. Zelenskyy will personally tell all the information on Azovstal in his evening address."

"Denys Prokopenko, the commander of Azov special regiment, said on May 16 that Ukrainian soldiers at Azovstal have "fulfilled their orders" and "were distracting the Russian army for 82 days." The statement appeared to signal the end of the siege of Azovstal, the steel plant that remains the last Ukrainian-held part of Mariupol."


Seems Russia has now indeed occupied the whole city of Mariupol.
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