Who killed J.F.K. ? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Beren
#15213267
JFK was too intellectual for a politician, he also wasn't dirty, tricky and tactical enough while he also couldn't keep pace in terms of meanness. I wouldn't say he was decent, but he was a relatively good man compared to his enemies. An idealist without illusions, as he himself said, which could be interpreted as being naive perhaps, although I wouldn't call him that. He wasn't careful enough for sure, though.
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By Potemkin
#15213270
Beren wrote:JFK was too intellectual for a politician, he also wasn't dirty, tricky and tactical enough while he also couldn't keep pace in terms of meanness. I wouldn't say he was decent, but he was a relatively good man compared to his enemies. An idealist without illusions, as he himself said, which could be interpreted as being naive perhaps, although I wouldn't call him that. He wasn't careful enough for sure, though.

I think part of the problem was that his rich and well-connected daddy had supported his meteoric rise to power, even to the extent of using his connections with organised crime (from his time as a molasses importer to the Mob during Prohibition) to steal the 1960 election from Nixon for his son. Some wag said at the time that JFK was so popular a politician that even the dead voted for him. Lol. This shielded him from the dirty business of clawing his way to the top which most American politicians have to go through, and it landed him in the White House at a ridiculously young age, without his youthful naivete having been seriously shaken.
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By Beren
#15213273
Potemkin wrote:JFK was so popular a politician that even the dead voted for him.

He had to be assassinated exactly because he'd have got reelected most likely, as he actually became popular with the people as president. He was a naturally charming man, the most charming of all presidents perhaps, with a beautiful wife and family. He was a natural born icon, so he had to be killed, of course.
#15213288
Beren wrote:He had to be assassinated exactly because he'd have got reelected most likely, as he actually became popular with the people as president. He was a naturally charming man, the most charming of all presidents perhaps, with a beautiful wife and family. He was a natural born icon, so he had to be killed, of course.

The older generation hated him, for obvious reasons. But the younger generation adored him, for the reasons you’ve outlined. He was young, handsome and dashing, with a beautiful glamorous wife and young children, and he was personally charming. And he had some killer speech-writers working for him. Lol.

But what really cemented his popularity with the young was his naivete - they could sense, being young and naive themselves, that he was one of them. He shared their idealism and, yes, their illusions too. When he got whacked, their hopes died with him.
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By jimjam
#15213393
Dorothy Kilgallen began to tell friends that she was close to discovering who assassinated Kennedy. According to David Welsh of Ramparts Magazine Kilgallen "vowed she would 'crack this case.' And another New York show biz friend said Dorothy told him in the last days of her life: "In five more days I'm going to bust this case wide open." Aware of what had happened to Bill Hunter and Jim Koethe, Kilgallen handed a draft copy of her chapter on the assassination to her friend, Florence Smith.

On 8th November, 1965, Kilgallen, was found dead in her New York apartment. She was fully dressed and sitting upright in her bed. The police reported that she had died from taking a cocktail of alcohol and barbiturates. The notes for the chapter she was writing on the case had disappeared. Her friend, Florence Smith, died two days later. The copy of Kilgallen's article were never found.

Some of her friends believed Kilgallen had been murdered. Marc Sinclaire was Kilgallen's personal hairdresser. He often woke Kilgallen in the morning. Kilgallen was usually out to the early hours of the morning and like her husband always slept late. When he found her body he immediately concluded she had been murdered.

(1) Kilgallen was not sleeping in her normal bedroom. Instead she was in the master bedroom, a room she had not occupied for several years.

(2) Kilgallen was wearing false eyelashes. According to Sinclaire she always took her eyelashes off before she went to bed.

(3) She was found sitting up with the book, The Honey Badger, by Robert Ruark, on her lap. Sinclaire claims that she had finished reading the book several weeks earlier (she had discussed the book with Sinclaire at the time).

(4) Kilgallen had poor eyesight and could only read with the aid of glasses. Her glasses were not found in the bedroom where she died.

(5) Kilgallen was found wearing a bolero-type blouse over a nightgown. Sinclaire claimed that this was the kind of thing "she would never wear to go to bed".
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By jimjam
#15214043
If there is one individual who could be considered the driving force (domestic) behind, and operational manager, of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, Allen Dulles is the man. The quintessential point man.

Dulles’s fingerprints are literally all over the Dallas crime scene, as they are all over the C.I.A. cover-up that he once directed.

First and foremost, because only the Central Intelligence Agency could have pulled off such a high-profile hit, the former C.I.A. Director is clearly suspect #1.

Secondly, because only the C.I.A. could have successfully covered up the public execution for 54 years, Dulles is a key figure during the years following Kennedy’s assassination.
#15214046
When Carlos Marcello was asked how it would be possible to assassinate the President of the United States, he replied: “Simple - you hire a nut to do it.” That “nut” was, of course, Lee Harvey Oswald, who was set up to be the fall guy, the ‘front man’ for the assassination, with other gunmen hidden at the scene to make sure of the kill. Jack Ruby was hired to stalk and then whack Oswald once his usefulness was at an end. It all went according to plan.

As for the CIA, they were in bed with the Mafia over Cuba. They both had a shared interest in whacking Castro, and the Mob had extensive networks of contacts in Cuba and were of course experts at murdering people, so it was natural for the CIA to contact them. The assassination of JFK was blowback from this relationship between the CIA and the Mafia. The CIA therefore had no interest in proving that their pals in the Mob had whacked the President of the United States.
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By jimjam
#15227525
Kennedy was the sort of leader the CIA was in the habit of overthrowing in foreign capitals. Kennedy had made enemies of bankers and industrialists. He was working to shrink oil profits by closing tax loopholes, including the “oil depletion allowance.” He was permitting the political left in Italy to participate in power, outraging the extreme right in Italy, the U.S., and the CIA. He aggressively went after steel corporations and prevented their price hikes. This was the sort of behavior that could get you overthrown if you lived in one of those countries with a U.S. embassy in it.

“What if there had been no Lee Harvey Oswald?” The answer to that is, “There would have been another guy very similar to serve the same purpose, just as there had been in the earlier attempt on JFK in Chicago. But “What if there had been no Allen Dulles?” looms large enough to suggest the possible answer that we would all be better off, less militarized, less secretive, less xenophobic. And that suggests that the deep state is not uniform and not unstoppable.
By ness31
#15227534
Americans don’t deserve the Kennedy’s. None of em. You’re home to one of the most patriotic podcasters on the planet and not one of the major newspapers in America has bothered to review his book.
By Rich
#15227591
Crantag wrote:Pretty sure that was when the so-called 'great American experiment in Democracy (TM)' got two bullets lodged in its heart. It was probably already on the ground and reeling at the time, but one must admit, it is tough to service two gunshots to the heart.

The great experiment in racist democracy more like. Like Apartheid South Africa, like Rhodesia, America was founded as a racist democracy, a morphological-racist democracy. The return of escaped slaves was baked into the constitution and the continuance of the trans-Atlantic slave trade was guaranteed for two more decades from the time of its formulation. The slaves on the plantations of the deep South were literally worked to death, so needed a constant supply of replacements. The two decades was to allow the near south to develop as slave farm inputs for the deep south.

The constitution also included the 3/5th rules. This meant that although the slaves didn't vote they added 3/5ths of a vote to the so called white votes of the South. When the slaves were freed and Jim Crows introduced this effectively became the five fifths rule. The Blacks still didn't get to vote, but they each now contributed a whole vote to the White Supremacists vote weighting within the Union.

Jim Crow was maintained by a system of terror. Real terrorism not the minor attention mongering that passes for terror in the modern world. In 1963 there was a low level one sided civil war going on. Blacks and White civil rights campaigners were being killed, murdered. Texas Governor John Connally defended that system of terror and discrimination, he may not have personally killed anyone, but he was murderer. He was engaging in a collective system of murder. He was a totally legitimate target. And when JFK got into the car for their mutual love in, for their mutual campaign endorsement, he made himself a legitimate target as well.

Progressives should celebrate Lee Harvey Oswald as a hero, as a soldier in the war against the Jim Crow terrors system. And no progressive should mourn the loss of JFK. Lyndon Johnson was no saint. He had many flaws and legion. But he he did have a genuine concern for the poor of America both Black and White. While JFK's motto was "Poor Americans, ask not what the corporate elite can do for you, rather ask what can I do for the corporate elite."
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By jimjam
#15227710
Rich wrote:Progressives should celebrate Lee Harvey Oswald as a hero


You actually think LHO killed JFK? :eek:

Then you likely believe it was Sirhan Sirhan who killed Robert Kennedy in spite of the fact that RFK was shot 3 times in the back while Sirhan was at no time behind RFK. The fatal wound left powder burns (2 inches) behind RFK's ear.

'The LAPD unit that investigated my dad’s assassination was run by active CIA operatives. They destroyed thousands of pieces of evidence,' claimed RFK Jr
#15227713
Most of the things people liked about JFK were superficial. The charm, youth, attractiveness, fashionable wife, and public speaking ability. You don't hear people say "I loved JFK's public policies". He only governed for 3 years.
By Rich
#15227742
jimjam wrote:You actually think LHO killed JFK? :eek:

Who killed Adolph Hitler? Was it suicide? Was he actually killed by his SS guard under Himmler's orders? Was his death faked, did he escape the bunker? These are interesting questions, but hopefully we should only spend time on these questions when we have established some answers, some correct answers to some other more important questions? Was Hitler basically a good guy? No he wasn't. Was Hitler on the right side of history? No he wasn't? Was the Nazi system a good system? No it wasn't.

The Nazi ascension of power in 1933 was not a good thing. But it is most important to understand that Nazi Germany was not the worst place in the world in the 1930s. I can't tell the amount of abuse, insults, warnings and bans I've received over the years, by less intelligent, less informed and more disingenuous people for trying to make this simple point. Nazism was only such a serious, world scale problem, because of the offensive potential of the German military.

A modest number of Jews were killed in Nazi Germany, prior to world war II, just for being Jews, as opposed to being Communists, trade unionist or for engaging in anti Nazi activities. But there was nothing in Nazi Germany before the war, or in fact during the war to compare to the public lynchings that were still taking place in the Southern States in the 1930s.In Nazi Germany people didn't pour out of their Churches on a Sunday morning to go and attended the lynching of a Jew. Jews were not generally tied to a stake in the village centre and burned to death. On the whole people didn't take Jewish body parts home as trophies. Its a bitter pill for people to accept, but the culture of the southern states in the United States in the 1930s was more hideous than Nazi Germany.

As we came out of World War I, universal adult male suffrage was established as the norm in the West. But the United States which emerged out of World War II as the leader of the free world did not have universal adult male suffrage. The leader of the free world was not itself free. The Jim Crow system had no where near majority support in the United States, but the great liberal heroes FDR and JFK both founded their power on a coalition, on an alliance with the leading perpetrators of the Jim Crow Apartheid terror system. Universal male suffrage democracy was not possible in America in 1865, any more than lean in feminism was possible in 2001 Afghanistan, but after World War I, the establishment of universal adult male suffrage and the destruction of the Jim Crow terror system was the number 1, the overriding internal task of America.

Both FDR and JFK failed this most basic test of American politics. They were both objectively reactionaries. The funeral of JFK in America reminds me of the funeral of Jimmy Saville in Britain. Oh how the people wept. But they mourned the loss of an illusion. A lost age of innocence that never actually existed.
Last edited by Rich on 16 May 2022 13:50, edited 1 time in total.
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By Potemkin
#15227745
Good post, @Rich. As the Southern short story writer Carson McCullers once said, "I must go home periodically to renew my sense of horror."
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By jimjam
#15227813
Rich wrote: A lost age of innocence that never actually existed.


The US had two destroyers full of marines all ready to go ashore and "rescue" the Bay of Pigs operation that was set up to fail and regain "possession" of Cuba. JFK refused to let the Marines ashore greatly angering the CIA and the Mafia.

JFK was reducing funding for the Vietnam and preparing to withdraw.

I'm not sure what an age of innocence is but I'll take this ^ any day.

"Age of innocence"? I think, with humans, that ends around ten years of age.

So ...... I take it that you actually think it was LHO who killed Kennedy. I suggest you get ahold of "The Devil's Chessboard" by David Talbot ..... and read it. It has a bit more credibility that Alan Dulles :lol: .
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By Beren
#15227837
jimjam wrote:Dorothy Kilgallen began to tell friends that she was close to discovering who assassinated Kennedy. On 8th November, 1965, Kilgallen, was found dead in her New York apartment. Her friend, Florence Smith, died two days later. The copy of Kilgallen's article were never found.

Those wonderful 60's.

Image

Potemkin wrote:It all went according to plan.

Putin should have had such planners to plan the whacking of Zelensky and Ukraine for him. :lol:

Unthinking Majority wrote:Why would the Mafia or CIA kill JFK in Dallas of all places?

Maybe because Johnson had a lot of deep and extensive connections in Texas.
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By jimjam
#15227872
Beren wrote:Those wonderful 60's.

Image


Putin should have had such planners to plan the whacking of Zelensky and Ukraine for him. :lol:


Maybe because Johnson had a lot of deep and extensive connections in Texas.


Russia opened up it's war with an air born assassination team to take Zelensky out...... obviously it failed.

I came of age during the 60's which IMO were about as chaotic as today. Leaders unacceptable to the ruling class were being killed , "demonstrators" were being killed and, of course, Vietnam. The draft was plucking young men out of their lives and dropping them into a life of servitude where they were shipped to a jungle on the other side of the planet to kill or be killed.

Dulles et. al. had a plan to take JFK out that could have fit into any number of cities. The plan was to be activated in Chicago a few weeks prior to Dallas complete with an Oswald type patsy.
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By Beren
#15227883
jimjam wrote:I cameDulles et. al. had a plan to take JFK out that could have fit into any number of cities. The plan was to be activated in Chicago a few weeks prior to Dallas complete with an Oswald type patsy.

Chicago was ruled by the Mob then, I guess.

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