Russia-Ukraine War 2022 - Page 239 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15227925
@Rich

Like you, Stepan Andriyovych Bandera was never a citizen of Ukraine. He was, however, a fascist Nazi collaborator and a war criminal who, together with his followers, was largely responsible for the massacres of Polish civilians and partially responsible for the Holocaust in Ukraine.

Like most Ukrainians

Are you sure?

A proposal to confer the posthumous title of Hero of Ukraine on Bandera was rejected by the Ukrainian parliament in August 2019.


:roll:
By Rich
#15227926
ingliz wrote:Are you sure?

A proposal to confer the posthumous title of Hero of Ukraine on Bandera was rejected by the Ukrainian parliament in August 2019.


:roll:

No I'm not sure, so I'll row back somewhat to say supported by the majority of 1st language Ukrainian speakers in Ukraine. However, I'm also doubtful that vote represents the will of the Ukrainian people. They were undoubtedly bowing to diplomatic pressure. Bandera is extremely popular in western Ukraine and so for example I strongly suspect western reporters from Kiev were ordered to not mention Stephana Bandery Avenue during the conflict.
#15227930
ingliz wrote:@Rich

Like you, Stepan Andriyovych Bandera was never a citizen of Ukraine. He was, however, a fascist Nazi collaborator and a war criminal who, together with his followers, was largely responsible for the massacres of Polish civilians and partially responsible for the Holocaust in Ukraine.


Are you sure?

A proposal to confer the posthumous title of Hero of Ukraine on Bandera was rejected by the Ukrainian parliament in August 2019.


:roll:


Whoever speaks about Nazi collaborators in a positive manner - he deserves process of denazification by comrade Vladimir Vladmirovich!
#15227934
noemon wrote:You are not going to trash a popular revolution by millions of people with a very good reason as a "coup-d'etat".

Reality: The Russian-appointed Yanukovych changed the language policy of Ukraine in 2012 ...where the Russian element exceeded 10% of the population supplanting Ukrainian with Russian at every level of government...

We have had language laws where I am for the last 50 years, and one of them allows English-speaking-majority towns and cities to have different language laws in order to enable the "anglophone" regions to have more English on signs and in their administrations.

https://www.journaldequebec.com/2021/05 ... eu-danglos

That these laws might seem "strange" to someone from another country or continent is perfectly normal. It's why "international relations" require a lot more open-mindedness than most late-nite pub discussions do. The language situation in Ukraine (and in Canada, Sri Lanka, Switzerland, Belgium, Congo...) is complex and requires originality - which isn't the case in states like the USA, France or the UK where minority languages were simply eradicated.
User avatar
By Beren
#15227935
Institute For The Study Of War wrote:Russian military bloggers continued to post analysis that is skeptical of Russian efforts and increasingly in-line with Western assessments of Russian military failures in Ukraine. One such blogger, Igor Strelkov, claimed that the Russian offensive to take Donbas has ultimately failed and that “not a single large settlement “has been liberated. Strelkov even noted that the capture of Rubizhne is relatively insignificant because it happened before the new offensive in Donbas had begun. Strelkov stated that Russian forces are unlikely to liberate Donbas by the summer and that Ukrainian troops will hold their positions around Donetsk City. Strelkov notably claimed that Russian failures thus far have not surprised him because the intent of Russian command has been so evident throughout the operation that Ukrainian troops are aware of exactly how to best respond and warns that Russian troops are fighting to the point of exhaustion under “rules proposed by the enemy.” The continued disenchantment of pro-Russian milbloggers with the Russian war effort may fuel dissatisfaction in Russia itself, especially if Moscow continues to press recruitment and conscription efforts that send poorly-trained cannon-fodder to the front lines.

I'd not be surprised if the military situation were about to get stabilised in its current state and we already had a kind of future demarcation line.

Image
#15227937
Independent_Srpska wrote:Whoever speaks about Nazi collaborators in a positive manner - he deserves process of denazification by comrade Vladimir Vladmirovich!

How is Putin a comrade? He is a known thief, corrupt bastard and billionaire with properties and yachts worth 100 mil+ euros. As evil the Communists were, they did talk the talk AND walk the walk when it came to it unlike modern Russian leadership.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15227943
Beren wrote:I'd not be surprised if the military situation were about to get stabilised in its current state and we already had a kind of future demarcation line.

Image


Maybe, but supplies lines from the north part of Donbas are starting to be threatened, and Ukraine is organizing a full counter offensive for sometime in the summer. Contrary to the belief of many. The Ukrainian ranks are still growing and being trained.

I would expect a true stalemate only if/when that counter offensive from Ukraine doesn't make the progress they are hoping to make.
#15227944
@JohnRawls

JohnRawls wrote:How is Putin a comrade? He is a known thief, corrupt bastard and billionaire with properties and yachts worth 100 mil+ euros. As evil the Communists were, they did talk the talk AND walk the walk when it came to it unlike modern Russian leadership.


It seems they were able to create a better military too. The communists, that is. I am not saying the Soviet military was the greatest for it's time, but it seemed much more capable than the Russian military when compared with the times.
#15227950
Western media:

Azov battalion and foreign mercenaries from Azovstal in Mariupol successfully infiltrated into the enemy territory during the execution of the special defensive military operation of Ukrainian forces.

8)
#15227953
Politics_Observer wrote:@JohnRawls



It seems they were able to create a better military too. The communists, that is. I am not saying the Soviet military was the greatest for it's time, but it seemed much more capable than the Russian military when compared with the times.


Perhaps it's because the Soviets actually believed in their system and were thus more willing to fight for it. In this case, Russians are fighting for a dictator basically. Who the fuck wants to fight for an old man with delusions of grandeur? This is why Putin tries so hard to connect himself to the Soviet Union, even though he's not a commie by any stretch of the imagination. He is an aspiring emperor, more like the Tsars than than a secretary general.
#15227957
Rancid wrote:Perhaps it's because the Soviets actually believed in their system and were thus more willing to fight for it. In this case, Russians are fighting for a dictator basically. Who the fuck wants to fight for an old man with delusions of grandeur? This is why Putin tries so hard to connect himself to the Soviet Union, even though he's not a commie by any stretch of the imagination. He is an aspiring emperor, more like the Tsars than than a secretary general.


In the meantime the old man who shakes hands with air sends well armed American volunteers to help old Somalian ladies to cross the streets.
Human face of the American imperialism.
User avatar
By Beren
#15227972
Rancid wrote:I would expect a true stalemate only if/when that counter offensive from Ukraine doesn't make the progress they are hoping to make.

I guess that's what both sides are already preparing for. The Russian war-machine has run out of steam, or that's been the war they could afford having, so it could be Ukraine's turn for a counteroffensive. However, I wouldn't expect them to break through much.
#15227974
Beren wrote:I guess that's what both sides are already preparing for. The Russian war-machine has run out of steam, or that's been the war they could afford having, so it could be Ukraine's turn for a counteroffensive. However, I wouldn't expect them to break through much.


True, so basically Ukraine needs to have its go, then both sides will probably sit down. A stalemate would still be very unfavorable for Ukraine though. Ceding any territory is a loss and would embolden Putin to continue a new attack at some future point in time.

I wouldn't discount Ukraines chances at taking back a lot more land though. They have:

- The backing of western supply chains
- Western intelligence
- Western tactics and training, which are clearly better than Russia
- They have trained specifically to fight Russia (which is why they have done as well as they have)
- Will/motivation/morale

I think they will take back some land.
User avatar
By Wels
#15227975
A lot of patriotic russian bloggers have become critical of Russia's special operation - this does not mean they are against the war and invading Ukraine, most of them are ardent supporters for whatever reason. But it seems they are becoming critical about the russian method of warfare, or better the lack of it. I wonder if this is a fallback from phase 3 of the russian propaganda doctrine. That would be a real backfiring :)

Manwhile a retired Retired colonel speaks out on Russian TV
"Russia's mainstream media outlets offer a view of the Ukraine war that is unlike anything seen from outside of the country. For a start, they don't even call it a war. But our Russia editor reflects on a rare exchange broadcast on state TV.

The Kremlin still maintains that the Russian offensive is going according to plan.

But on Monday night, studio guest Mikhail Khodarenok, a military analyst and retired colonel, painted a very different picture.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61484222

"The biggest problem with [Russia's] military and political situation," he continued, "is that we are in total political isolation and the whole world is against us, even if we don't want to admit it. We need to resolve this situation.
"The situation cannot be considered normal when against us, there is a coalition of 42 countries and when our resources, military-political and military-technical, are limited."


He is either extremely brave, or stupid :?:
User avatar
By Rancid
#15227978
wat0n wrote:Neither. Putin's preparing the stage to change his approach, I think, with losing as little face as humanely possible.

Also, it seems the Ukrainians are conceding Mariupol:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/16/europe/a ... index.html


Mariupol was effectively taken like 2 weeks ago. That's when Russia moved out a bunch of BTGs anyway.

Zelensky has said a few times that giving any land to Russia is a no go, but I wonder if eventually he will cave on that demand. Moreover, would the average Ukrainian be ok with that?
User avatar
By Beren
#15227979
Rancid wrote:I wouldn't discount Ukraines chances at taking back a lot more land though. I think they will take back some land.

They may take back some land, but the Russians will hold the line mostly. A Russian land-grab would be problematic, by the way, because the rest of the world wouldn't approve of it, so the Russians would give it back for something in exchange anyway. I guess Ukraine will be asked to agree to never joining NATO while consenting to constraining their own militarisation and any other (foreign) militarisation of their land. Plus there'd be some other nuances either, like recognising the annexation of Crimea and the independence of the Donbas republics, etc. of course.
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