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#15202592
My point is we should work to close the NEA, AFT and Department of Education because of their ineffectiveness and their first priority, which is to raise pay for themselves, not push any type of effective education for students.

They're useless and parents and tax payers should work to end their bureaucratic asses, just as MANY government and union organizations should be defunded and sent the way of the horse and buggy. These are middlemen and parasitic con artists that contribute zilch.
#15202661
BlutoSays wrote:My point is we should work to close the NEA, AFT and Department of Education because of their ineffectiveness and their first priority, which is to raise pay for themselves, not push any type of effective education for students.

They're useless and parents and tax payers should work to end their bureaucratic asses, just as MANY government and union organizations should be defunded and sent the way of the horse and buggy. These are middlemen and parasitic con artists that contribute zilch.


Increasing wages for educators increases the quality and the pool of candidates which increases quality for education or facilities and so on. Since you are a Trump supporter then you are kind of contradicting Trumpism in a way. So I would say you are not really a Trumpster but a Norquist.

Norquists do not understand that you can't keep slashing taxes forever. Then you will have no government left and the lower and impoverished middle class will eat the rich.
#15202709
JohnRawls wrote:Increasing wages for educators increases the quality and the pool of candidates which increases quality for education or facilities and so on. Since you are a Trump supporter then you are kind of contradicting Trumpism in a way. So I would say you are not really a Trumpster but a Norquist.

Norquists do not understand that you can't keep slashing taxes forever. Then you will have no government left and the lower and impoverished middle class will eat the rich.


Schools are baby sitting facilities today. Also understand that many schools do stupid shit like dropping testing altogether because their scores are so poor. Anything to avoid responsibility for failure.

We spend a shit-ton for education today and get a substandard product. That's a fact.

The correlation between school spending and performance is tenuous. In fact, some of the states where the most is spent have the lowest standardized scores.


What JohnRawls doesn't understand is that the more the left brackets spending (tax dollars) for their pet projects (education, climate, healthcare, wokeism projects, Universal basic income, or whatever), the less disposable income there is and that causes recessionary pressures on the overall economy. The whole reason democrats push for subsidies and higher taxes is because there's NO NATURAL DEMAND for what they want. Therefore, they have to confiscate more and more taxes and fees from the earner's pay check to fund their pet projects.

When the producers of (education, climate, healthcare, wokeism projects, UbI, or whatever) see that boon in "free gubmint sugar", they boost the cost of their products and services to sop up all the "free money" (tax payer earned dollars) the government hands out with no audits and no controls. They raise prices BECAUSE THEY CAN. What happens is bureaucracies, administrative government overhead and paper pushing grows, and the tax payer has less money to put food on the table and heat the house. Private industry shrinks and employment prospects shrink also. Money can't be spent in two places at once. Thus, poor economic outcomes happen because government=slack (AKA inefficiency).

Lesson: a government bureaucrat doesn't know what's best for you. YOU know what's best for you.
#15202777
BlutoSays wrote:Schools are baby sitting facilities today. Also understand that many schools do stupid shit like dropping testing altogether because their scores are so poor. Anything to avoid responsibility for failure.

We spend a shit-ton for education today and get a substandard product. That's a fact.

The correlation between school spending and performance is tenuous. In fact, some of the states where the most is spent have the lowest standardized scores.


What JohnRawls doesn't understand is that the more the left brackets spending (tax dollars) for their pet projects (education, climate, healthcare, wokeism projects, Universal basic income, or whatever), the less disposable income there is and that causes recessionary pressures on the overall economy. The whole reason democrats push for subsidies and higher taxes is because there's NO NATURAL DEMAND for what they want. Therefore, they have to confiscate more and more taxes and fees from the earner's pay check to fund their pet projects.

When the producers of (education, climate, healthcare, wokeism projects, UbI, or whatever) see that boon in "free gubmint sugar", they boost the cost of their products and services to sop up all the "free money" (tax payer earned dollars) the government hands out with no audits and no controls. They raise prices BECAUSE THEY CAN. What happens is bureaucracies, administrative government overhead and paper pushing grows, and the tax payer has less money to put food on the table and heat the house. Private industry shrinks and employment prospects shrink also. Money can't be spent in two places at once. Thus, poor economic outcomes happen because government=slack (AKA inefficiency).

Lesson: a government bureaucrat doesn't know what's best for you. YOU know what's best for you.


I do know what is best for me indeed hence I wrote to you the way I did.

If you are interested in listening so here we go:

I live in Estonia, it is a former Soviet State so I had the luck of seeing both the classical education system of the Soviet Style that was still used after the independence restoration when I was going to school and both know how it is now.

Your first misconception is that schools are not baby sitting facilities. What are they then? They have always been supposed to be baby sitting facilities where children can learn along the way. The difference is how that system is implemented though. The Soviet classical sturdy systems that most of the older US folk seem to appreciate is not as good as you think. While it does provide "knowledge", its main problem is that it was created as a mass education program so the classes are overpacked and rely on sturdy discipline to keep them in check in most cases. Which has its own side affects of killing creativity on mass and also forcing a person in to a sort of rules bubble that is hard to escape from. So once you graduate from school and go in to later life then you are less creative overall which is a super big downside for modern economy.

The Northern European model that was implemented after I left school is not inferior by any stretch though and there is a reason why we transitioned to it. The difference between it and the older model is that reducing the workload and testing in students allows them to learn and explore more without actually destroying any sense of creativity that they have. Also knowledge wise it seems to be as efficient as classical model of the Soviet Style considering the PISA results for example from Estonia, Finland and other countries. Overall I see only upsides with it honestly, because it managed to tackle the main problems of the classical model without destroying the "knowledge" component.

If you look at the PISA results then you will also notice that classical system models are actually slightly enferior and the new model countries are overtaking or overtaken them. For example, the results from China, that are usually provided as arguments for classical model have cherry picked 4 main richest regions and Hong Kong/Macau seperately. Again the 6 most developed places in the country. If you do the same for the US then there are regions when the PISA results are significantly higher than China in those main developed regions. The difference between Western countries is that we don't fudge the numbers and just take countries as a whole.

Also the main reason why i said that more salary is important is because right now Estonia while being in the first places on PISA all the time, has problems with getting more qualified teachers due to lower salaries compared to other sectors like IT and so on. So the most qualified candidates choose something else. So from this standpoint, if you want to have superior education, you just need to accept that teachers need to be paid more.

As for your Norquist ideology, you are a traitor to the alt-right/Trumpist cause and digging your own grave by your own policies honestly. Trump had to compromise with the Norquist's because you still held some power that he needed but do not kid yourself, you are a RINO for Trump and the alt-right. Also your policies continue to impoverish the middle class even further which in the end will lead Norquists to loose support even more and join the extremists on the left or right. And if you say that Norquists are not RINOs then let me remind you that Norquists supported Clinton when he had his 2 presidential terms. You don't really care about who to support as long as your dogma is pushed. So the question still remains, to what point are you going to cut taxes? When enough is enough? Underfunding all state and federal institutions at some point becomes more damaging than effective. Stability in itself through those institutions provides value and increases prices of property, land and so on.
#15202926
Tovarish, you may have misunderstood me. I'm speaking about the U.S. only. I stated that our schools are baby sitting facilities and that is not a good thing. Children must learn skills to become self sufficient and not wards of the state. Increasingly, the opposite is being pushed throughout society and it's not because a lack of spending on education. Tests and standards are being lowered or even dropped in many places because the left believes it damages self-esteem. The standards we have set in the past are wiped away because the student body in primary school can not meet them! As you may of heard, the left pushes "a trophy for every child" in all aspects of their upbringing. The left does not believe in individual responsibility. To the contrary, they believe in collective rewards and collective punishment. If someone does something wrong, they believe it's everyone's fault and it must be punished as such. You see that throughout our society.

Creativity is a great concept, but one must be educated in the basics and be able to provide for themselves. A plumber, carpenter, doctor, scientist or STEM major, IT specialist, electrician, architect or a home contractor are largely self-sufficient. Students who study journalism, social programs like women's studies, liberal arts, education, psychology, art, or philosophy often can't find work because there is little demand for their skills. But it is their choice to do so. But the left pushes this nonsense and people continue to pay good money for recreational majors, after which many become a burden on society because of a heavy debt with no prospects for good income. The left promotes this and many other bad policies because above all, they do not want hurt feelings. So we have many unemployable people today or underemployed people. The left doesn't know what to do with them, so they continue to create programs to subsidize them at the expense of those who have employable skills. It's all about shifting the burden to the masses through progressive taxation. Also, in many of our colleges and universities, we find students require supplemental classes because the standards in primary schools have been lowered so much. Those U.S. students entering college, often can't compete with those around the globe.

You are correct. Mine is not a Norquist ideology. I believe in traditional Austrian economics, not Keynesian economics. Trump is not a conservative and I have never stated otherwise. But I must make a choice of the lesser of two evils and republicans are my choice. They are less to the left on the left-right scale. Also, importantly, Trump tells things as they are, and that upsets the establishment. That is BADLY needed in our country. We are akin to Rome on the decline and the Democrat Party would have us believe everything is wonderful as long as we give them what they want. To keep power, they push racism, self-doubt and jealousy at every turn. They don't even attempt to hide that any more. They do not believe in individual responsibility and they subscribe to group think, which is dangerous given that they are wrong so often. They believe in collectivism, but they soften the message, because overall it's still abhorrent to the American psyche. Democrats believe in "managed decline", not excellence. Also, Democrats (and especially progressives) are bullshit artists. They believe in political correctness to escape truths. They spend an inordinate amount of time redefining the language and terms to escape hurt feelings and the truth. You must have heard this by now. Every culture practices political correctness to some degree, but we excel at it.

Finally, public employees push for outrageous salaries and benefits here to the point where municipalities collapse. Public employees are compensated very well and have better retirement systems than the private sector by far. State and federal institutions are not underfunded. Those institutions are bureaucratic with much too much administrative overhead and bureaucracy. Administrators are paid very well and yet they are not worth what we pay them. The administrative state is slow to react, fix anything or perform most any task of substance that benefits the tax payer. They simply churn out policy all day long and create countervailing laws that everyone goes blind trying to read and understand what they want. The government institutions you speak of DO NOT provide value. They are literally jobs programs. Jobs for the sake of jobs.

Do not equate salary to educational outcomes. A solid state physics major will pay the same for a degree at a school as an African American studies major (a Harvard course of study). But one course of study is marketable. The other is a path in which the person decided to take the easy way out, and has far fewer employment prospects. That's OK and that's their decision, but that should not be a burden to the tax payer; a stranger has no obligations to another stranger. Taxes should be for the legitimate functions of government, not a wish list for those who can't perform and wish to put the burden of providing on the greater public.

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