How will the US pay back its debt? - Page 11 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Everything from personal credit card debt to government borrowing debt.

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#15228301
Rancid wrote:
This show how effective elitist propaganda is in the US. That is to say, the wealthy elites and politicians in America have convinced us that we should look down on poor working class people. This effectively means we are giving out power to the elites.



I remember people saying this in 2008, yet... here we are.



They probably will, but the US has had a balanced budget in the past. It can be done, but the political climate will prevent that of course.



We can handle the debt. In fact, inflation helps with that, even if it's a royal PIA..

But balancing the budget, right now, would turn the coming recession into a depression.

Economic suicide..
#15228313
:lol:
BlutoSays wrote:You are completely unreasonable by throwing the borders wide open and draining the social safety net in every state to the point where the country is hemorrhaging. Any time you are challenged on the subject, you return to calling people racists, bigots, and "looking down on the working class". You whine about giving everyone a living wage, which is not supported by all products and services offered. You then proceed to import a second class of people who don't play by rules to challenge those who would work for that artificially derived "living wage" on a different landscape. That second class works to undercut above board businesses through an underground black market economy and cash transactions. They work for an even lower wage on a cash basis and use public services and benefits without paying for them. That demographic is not taxable and does not abide by the same rules and fair play as legitimate citizens and businesses (all while you whine about the unfairness of purchasing cheap products from China).

You are setting up two classes that will war with each other. See Bosnia and Herzegovina 1992 forward.

Stop blaming wealthy elites for your flawed views.



Lol. No, Bluto, you are the one that is extremely uninformed about everything related to immigration in the USA. I don't want the Central Americans going to the USA where they wind up working for shit wages and not getting the American Dream.

I want them to stay in Central America and love their communities and their countries and stay put. But it won't happen if the USA foreign policies run by private corporations who depend on paying $1 an hour to them...won't let them have dignified lives.

You either give them a dignified life or you will have them in your nation sucking up resources (according to your cold and disgusting ideas of what Latin American poor people are worth).

I got the solution. Give them a living wage, and don't interfere in their democratic elections. Have them do their land reforms and respect their human rights. Do that? And don't put profit first. But you can't. You love those elite fucks with all your heart. And they will make the decision for you. They will choose to pay shit and interfere. And the border problem will worsen. Because no one does Anti-American liberal democracy campaigns in Honduras. You should. You should get in a truck with a translator and tell them, "Don't throw open the borders we don't want you there. You will be standing in line in food banks, worrying about being evicted out of expensive apartments, and washing up in Seven-Eleven parking lots. Don't go stateside. It is not the American Dream, and us racists don't want you there....did you get that translated Jose? Good!"
#15228314
Steve_American wrote:@BlutoSays,

Lurkers, you will notice that Bluto has not responded since I asked again for his plan on 12/30/21.

We should assume that he has no response. No plan for how to have a surplus and not cause a recession.

.


Do you expect Bluto to have a plan? He is ready for ethnic cleansing with some Central Americans?....he is ready for Sarajevo 1992 and killing off some Central Americans. because they are a threat to his livelihood.

What response is the man gonna have Steve?

He knows that racist kid from that Tops grocery store was wrong, but he doesn't know how his ideas of what Latin American problems is going to get solved without a war like in 1992. He is in trouble Steve! :lol: 8)
#15228317
Tainari88 wrote:
Do you expect Bluto to have a plan? He is ready for ethnic cleansing with some Central Americans?....he is ready for Sarajevo 1992 and killing off some Central Americans. because they are a threat to his livelihood.

What response is the man gonna have Steve?

He knows that racist kid from that Tops grocery store was wrong, but he doesn't know how his ideas of what Latin American problems is going to get solved without a war like in 1992. He is in trouble Steve! :lol: 8)


Yea, Bluto is all over the place. Doesn't seem to realize how inherently contradictory many of his positions and statements are.
#15228319
BlutoSays wrote:You are completely unreasonable by throwing the borders wide open and draining the social safety net in every state to the point where the country is hemorrhaging. Any time you are challenged on the subject, you return to calling people racists, bigots, and "looking down on the working class". You whine about giving everyone a living wage, which is not supported by all products and services offered. You then proceed to import a second class of people who don't play by rules to challenge those who would work for that artificially derived "living wage" on a different landscape. That second class works to undercut above board businesses through an underground black market economy and cash transactions. They work for an even lower wage on a cash basis and use public services and benefits without paying for them. That demographic is not taxable and does not abide by the same rules and fair play as legitimate citizens and businesses (all while you whine about the unfairness of purchasing cheap products from China).

You are setting up two classes that will war with each other. See Bosnia and Herzegovina 1992 forward.

Stop blaming wealthy elites for your flawed views.


Really? The US is hemorrhaging due to some pennies that some immigrants get?
You should really analyze where the government is sending your money before you start your crazy rants.
About 75% of the US budget is defense, medicare and SSS.
None of which is going to be cut.
Whatever nonsense you think the US is spending on immigrants, blacks, whatever latest racism or xenophobia nonsense you want to complaint about, makes a minuscule and mostly insignificant portion of US spending.
It is like looking a a guy with a chopped leg and a scratch on his face and worrying he might hemorrhage from the scratch and offering a bandaid for it.
#15228332
XogGyux wrote:
Really? The US is hemorrhaging due to some pennies that some immigrants get?
You should really analyze where the government is sending your money before you start your crazy rants.
About 75% of the US budget is defense, medicare and SSS.
None of which is going to be cut.
Whatever nonsense you think the US is spending on immigrants, blacks, whatever latest racism or xenophobia nonsense you want to complaint about, makes a minuscule and mostly insignificant portion of US spending.
It is like looking a a guy with a chopped leg and a scratch on his face and worrying he might hemorrhage from the scratch and offering a bandaid for it.


Yea, but it's easier to blame poor people.
#15228333
@XogGyux this @BlutoSays thinks that the immigrants are the problem. He thinks some Central Americans who the USA gov't policies devastated due to supporting Banana Republic dictatorships and terror squads are the problem. Not the incessant war spending that the USA has done in the last 80 years of its existence. And the SS and the Medical stuff with Big Pharma hiking prices all day and night.

No, it is the immigrant flood of Honduran refugees. He is foolish in the extreme!

Bluto, get a clue of where the money from the US Treasury goes to, (hint hint it is not on arresting immigrants violating the border law because Chiquita Banana needs to sell cheap bananas in Central America), they are spending it here:

#15228336
US military doctrine is that the US has to be positioned to fight two different wars against its two biggest competitors (believed to be Russia and China, but I think Russia doesn't count anymore) at the same time, and win both. This is why the so much money goes into defense, and why Americans don't have socialized healthcare.

What's happening in Russia makes we think, maybe it is a good idea to have such a massive defense budget. :lol: :|
#15228350
It is ridiculous every time these penny pinchers complaint. We are in debt because of the few billions that go into feeding the poor, immigrant and hungry. We are going in debt to pay for the disability and childcare cost of a 400lbs black woman with 17 kids, the infamous welfare queen.
Meanwhile, all of that put together does not even come to half of what we spend on tanks, planes and carriers. We spend more on weapons than the next 10 countries put together, and neither of our immediate neightboors are particularly war-prone.
Where is the outrage when the fed prints trillions to save american airlines or goldman sachs? Bailing out students from student debt is a no-no, bailing out fucking millionaires and billionaires in wallstreet is necessary... Bailing out the mortgages of those that got stuck with variable rates was not feasable but saving the banks was...
There is PPP money to save businesses, there is bailout money to save the housing industry, there is $$ to save the GMs and Chryslers, there is money to save the Deltas and the American airlines.
There is no money to save house owners... there is no money to save student loans, there is no money to pay for child care, there is no money to pay for healthcare.
This shit couldn't be more if it was wearing a high visibility jacket, screaming on a loudspeaker while slapping you in the face. Goverment favors corporations over individuals. All these culture wars is to manipulate individuals to waste their time fighting each other so that the politicians can get away with their heist while the rest of us are distracted fighting culture wars.
#15228351
XogGyux wrote:It is ridiculous every time these penny pinchers complaint. We are in debt because of the few billions that go into feeding the poor, immigrant and hungry. We are going in debt to pay for the disability and childcare cost of a 400lbs black woman with 17 kids, the infamous welfare queen.
Meanwhile, all of that put together does not even come to half of what we spend on tanks, planes and carriers. We spend more on weapons than the next 10 countries put together, and neither of our immediate neightboors are particularly war-prone.
Where is the outrage when the fed prints trillions to save american airlines or goldman sachs? Bailing out students from student debt is a no-no, bailing out fucking millionaires and billionaires in wallstreet is necessary... Bailing out the mortgages of those that got stuck with variable rates was not feasable but saving the banks was...
There is PPP money to save businesses, there is bailout money to save the housing industry, there is $$ to save the GMs and Chryslers, there is money to save the Deltas and the American airlines.
There is no money to save house owners... there is no money to save student loans, there is no money to pay for child care, there is no money to pay for healthcare.
This shit couldn't be more if it was wearing a high visibility jacket, screaming on a loudspeaker while slapping you in the face. Goverment favors corporations over individuals. All these culture wars is to manipulate individuals to waste their time fighting each other so that the politicians can get away with their heist while the rest of us are distracted fighting culture wars.


Agree 100%

I guarantee that all that needs to done is to get rid of the fluff/corruption in the defense budget. This would free up money to take care of people, and not even compromise the defense doctrine one bit.

Also, yes, the culture war bullshit is basically there to distract simpletons like BLuto.
#15228352
Rancid wrote:Agree 100%

I guarantee that all that needs to done is to get rid of the fluff/corruption in the defense budget. This would free up money to take care of people, and not even compromise the defense doctrine one bit.

Also, yes, the culture war bullshit is basically there to distract simpletons like BLuto.

Well, it is not him. We are also being distracted on this shit as well. There is no doubt there are more liberal-leaning people in the US than rightwingers... The fact that we were able to elect Biden, a guy that presented himself 3x across 4 decades for the presidency and was rejected in the past should tell the whole story. Yet when presented with a scary enough picture we were able to pullthrough.
#15228353
XogGyux wrote:Well, it is not him. We are also being distracted on this shit as well. There is no doubt there are more liberal-leaning people in the US than rightwingers... The fact that we were able to elect Biden, a guy that presented himself 3x across 4 decades for the presidency and was rejected in the past should tell the whole story. Yet when presented with a scary enough picture we were able to pullthrough.


Fair enough.
#15228371
Rancid wrote:Agree 100%

I guarantee that all that needs to done is to get rid of the fluff/corruption in the defense budget. This would free up money to take care of people, and not even compromise the defense doctrine one bit.

Also, yes, the culture war bullshit is basically there to distract simpletons like BLuto.


You dare to call Bluto a simpleton? He is a serious political analyst. We are throwing open the borders. I am in Mexico. I don't want to be thrown out of Mexico. I got to make a plan for the Mexicans to let me stay here....I got to convince the Mexican bureaucracy that I can pass the high school test and go to cooking school. My next thing to study.

I have tons of cookbooks and love cooking and learning about food. Food is part of the culture. But I got to respect Mexican crazy rules. They hate for you to point out how nuts their rules are. Like for an old lady like me? Who finished high school a long long time ago? They don't understand the PAIN of looking for an old piece of paper on a Caribbean island where the people who work in the office? Never really work in the office. Mexican office workers actually show up and finish their eight-hour shifts. They actually answer phones and do emails. They don't understand Puerto Rico. They truly don't.

The debt? It is unpayable. Basically, the USA is in deep shit. But? Money printed by the fed is kind of a promissory note that a bank says they will pay up on but they keep pushing back the date. I love looking into my credit file at Credit Karma and seeing $0 debt next to my name, 'zero on a home loan, zero on car loans, zero on this or that loan....it is music to my ears.

The Republicans say they are fiscal conservatives. Trump spent like a drunken sailor on defense and on bullshit. So did the Bush Jr and Bush Sr. So did many in the Republican column. Fools.
#15228501
Rancid wrote:This show how effective elitist propaganda is in the US. That is to say, the wealthy elites and politicians in America have convinced us that we should look down on poor working class people. This effectively means we are giving out power to the elites.



I remember people saying this in 2008, yet... here we are.



They probably will, but the US has had a balanced budget in the past. It can be done, but the political climate will prevent that of course.


Having a balanced budget for many years is only possible if the nation has a large trade surplus. Very few nations can have trade surpluses.

In the 1800s the US has 5 or 6 Bank Panics, aka depressions. In the 1900s it had the great Depression after a surplus in the late 20s.

You still don't grok it. When a nation has a trade deficit, it must have fiscal deficits to replace the income lost each year as money is spent to import stuff, which gives the income to foreigners. The nation also needs to replace the money going into savings. To some extent the money created by banks making loans helps, but it will always cause a slow down to turn into the downturn, and then into a recession or depression, unless the Gov increases deficit spending.
. . . If the money-supply/income keeps going down there will always be a recession, always. Then maybe a depression unless the gov. steps in and massively deficit spends.

So, no the US can almost never go back to having a balanced budget because it will never have a trade surplus.
.
#15228514
Steve_American wrote:Having a balanced budget for many years is only possible if the nation has a large trade surplus. Very few nations can have trade surpluses.

In the 1800s the US has 5 or 6 Bank Panics, aka depressions. In the 1900s it had the great Depression after a surplus in the late 20s.

You still don't grok it. When a nation has a trade deficit, it must have fiscal deficits to replace the income lost each year as money is spent to import stuff, which gives the income to foreigners. The nation also needs to replace the money going into savings. To some extent the money created by banks making loans helps, but it will always cause a slow down to turn into the downturn, and then into a recession or depression, unless the Gov increases deficit spending.
. . . If the money-supply/income keeps going down there will always be a recession, always. Then maybe a depression unless the gov. steps in and massively deficit spends.

So, no the US can almost never go back to having a balanced budget because it will never have a trade surplus.
.


Do you think the USA will encourage more factories and more local production of everything again? I think giving the money to foreign countries in trade is going to continue not to lessen? But who knows how the future shakes out Steve. It could be everyone decided to shop small and shop local, and buying in your state and buying in your town as local as possible is the trend for sustainable economies in the future. A complicated long journey from China to the USA or from Asia and Europe and South America and etc to the USA is not advantageous in the long run.

The USA is one of those rare nations that have incredibly diverse bio environments. From forests to beaches, to jungles to vast plains and mountains, to tundra, to cold to hot, and everything in between. It could create and trade within its own nation quite easily.
#15228517
Tainari88 wrote:
Do you think the USA will encourage more factories and more local production of everything again?




That's already started.

The question is how far it will go. The short answer is further than you think. Transportation costs are rising, supply chain problems aren't going away as expected, and Chinese labor costs have risen beyond where the economics will accept them.

Covid and the war is causing a huge shift in how the world works. Just how it all shakes out, nobody knows, but things are changing and fast.
#15228523
Tainari88 wrote:Do you think the USA will encourage more factories and more local production of everything again? I think giving the money to foreign countries in trade is going to continue not to lessen? But who knows how the future shakes out Steve. It could be everyone decided to shop small and shop local, and buying in your state and buying in your town as local as possible is the trend for sustainable economies in the future. A complicated long journey from China to the USA or from Asia and Europe and South America and etc to the USA is not advantageous in the long run.

The USA is one of those rare nations that have incredibly diverse bio environments. From forests to beaches, to jungles to vast plains and mountains, to tundra, to cold to hot, and everything in between. It could create and trade within its own nation quite easily.


My prediction is that the US will not be able to sell much overseas, because its labor costs will remain too high. It will need to buy some things, like lithium, copper, and nickel, etc. So, it will never have a large trade surplus.

It can protect its market from cheap foreign stuff, but as of now that is politically impossible. I hope that that changes.
.
Last edited by Steve_American on 21 May 2022 07:59, edited 1 time in total.
#15228529
Steve_American wrote:My prediction is that the US will not be able to sell much overseas, because its labor costs will remain too high. It will need to buy dome things, like lithium, copper, and nickel, etc0. So, it will never have a large trade surplus.

It can protect its market from cheap foreign stuff, but as of now that is politically impossible. I hope that that changes.
.


This will become less of an issue with automation. Energy costs do vary across countries as well as taxes but the markup that you can command for something "made in USA or made in Europe" could very well overcome the cost difference. I think many companies will have to rethink and re-imagine their business model of putting everything in china after the last 2 years. 90%+ of semiconductors in taiwan... if that island goes to war the whole planet will lose chips for decades to come.
#15228545
Steve_American wrote:My prediction is that the US will not be able to sell much overseas, because its labor costs will remain too high. It will need to buy dome things, like lithium, copper, and nickel, etc0. So, it will never have a large trade surplus.

It can protect its market from cheap foreign stuff, but as of now that is politically impossible. I hope that that changes.
.


Many US and European companies are jockeying for position to control in some way the lithium reserve in the state of Sonora in Mexico. The Mexican president doesn't want what has happened in the past? Foreign private industries dominating Mexican resources and making all the money without paying taxes to the Mexican state. Just bribing off corrupt Mexican politicians.

#15228548
late wrote:That's already started.

The question is how far it will go. The short answer is further than you think. Transportation costs are rising, supply chain problems aren't going away as expected, and Chinese labor costs have risen beyond where the economics will accept them.

Covid and the war is causing a huge shift in how the world works. Just how it all shakes out, nobody knows, but things are changing and fast.


A lot of restaurants and hotels have shut down for good. The funeral homes are doing well along with selling crypts and plots to bury people in.

Health care here is affordable generally. But? Many people just want to go back to normalcy.
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