Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...
Moderator: PoFo Agora Mods
Potemkin wrote:“Conscience is a Jewish invention.” - A. Hitler
annatar1914 wrote:@Potemkin , @Verv ,and @Political Interest :
I was reading from the Book of Tobit in Scripture, and I was reminded again of how weak and lowly material things are used by God to confound the Evil.
Asmodeus is a devil, a devil who had oppressed Sarah and killed every bridegroom who ever attempted to marry her. Tobias son of Tobit uses the heart and liver of the fish he caught and placed it on the fire in the wedding chamber (as per the Archangel Raphael's instructions) which smell drove Asmodeus to flee to Upper Egypt where St. Raphael bound him.
Now, among other things I find it interesting that not only does Asmodeus sound like a murderous obsessed stalker of Sarah's, but that a smell from a fish drove him away, that his senses were real and that it offended him enough that he fled from what is now Iran to Egypt to get away.
The physicality of the story interests me greatly. These are not the Angels of later Scholastic theology which nobody could believe in, without occupying space but somehow being with wills and intellects, who the Scholastic thinkers taught only appeared to have bodies, eat, smell, and so forth.
What offends them about matter? Are these thinkers almost Gnostics, Manichaean? Matter isn't sinful, some people are.
annatar1914 wrote:@Potemkin , @Verv , and @Political Interest :
Contra Harry Frankfort and his delightful book of Philosophy: " On Bullshit ", civilization is not built on the truth, whether from liars or honest people, but on Bullshit, the thought of persons who have no concern for the very idea of truth at all but who merely wish to persuade others.
Myths build the City, build the State.
But what modern myths sustain today's City, today's State? No mere myth, but the concept of modern Money, of finance capital. And so, is it a lie, invented by those who know the truth but deny it? Or does this myth rest upon Modernity post truth politics?
Potemkin wrote:Money is itself a myth, a “phantasm,” as Marx called it. In fact, he regarded it as a hallmark of capitalist society that it turns real things (and real people) into phantasms, and phantasms into real things. After all, money, which is an abstract concept with no concrete reality, becomes the most important thing in modern society, and countless people are willing to kill other people or destroy their own physical environment in order to obtain more of it. They destroy what is real in pursuit of what is unreal. This is the “founding Myth” of the modern world.
annatar1914 wrote:@Potemkin , but also @Verv , and @Political Interest , and others:
I have commented before my agreement with you on this, that also Money is the reified Blood and Body of the Poor Man, Christ Himself through His brethren.
But, I think Money, or the " Mammon of Unrighteousness " that Our Lord wants us to pay particular attention to, has another aspect which has gone unnoticed perhaps by myself. I have to look at the most famous holder of Money in the New Testament, the Rich Man in Christ's parable of Lazerus, for an answer somewhat.
Read the Parable. Everyone gets a measure of joy and heavenly bliss, either now in finite time and space or forever in eternity, at a higher level. Use it up selfishly and there's not much later. Money is the token of and for present happiness, undeferred gratification.
Look at the other famous holder of money in the New Testament, Judas Iscariot. Scripture says he was a devil, the son of perdition who stole from the common purse he held for Christ and His other disciples, and who betrayed Christ for 30 pieces of silver.
Judas saw everything Christ did and heard everything He said, and rejected Him for money and its transitory good and more permanent evils.
So this could in these two perspectives on money's " avatars " represent what before, was just " in potentia" before the Incarnation: the rejection of God by man, collectively speaking. The sacrament of despiritualization. The Mark of the Beast, the number corresponding to the 666 talents of Gold King Solomon possessed, the greatest monarch of all time.
While being Nothing (for Christ created a sum of money inside a fish for st Peter to catch, the Temple Tax He willed them to pay), Money stands for something. I suspect it was the Pagans " Ring of Gyges" which conferred invisibility and thus, impunity, for that is also what Money can do for its bearers. The Ring of Power, the cursed gold of the Niebelungs.
But what happened to Money, shortly after the Incarnation and in response to it? It began to lose even the illusion of being a real metallic object and became paper or a notation in records. All the same in the Modern Age Money entered into its fullest and most ethereal development, it's near complete control over the mind of men. We can no more imagine our world without Money than a world without a State. And as we know, the two are intimately connected...
The Barbarian and the Saints know that neither exists.
Potemkin wrote:Ironically, under capitalism, the accumulation of capital itself requires deferred gratification, the rejection of immediate consumption in favour of long-term investment. And I believe Christ used this as a metaphor for the spiritual life in one of his parables (the bad servant who buried his master’s gold vs the good servant who invested it wisely). Yet it also involves rejecting the greatest deferred gratification of all, in favour of living the “good life” in this world - the “good life” being understood in the modern world to be a life given over to conspicuous consumption and hedonistic pleasure. As Christ put it, “They already have their reward.”
Money, in this sense, symbolises the rejection of transcendence, the rejection of the next world or the judgement of God as a phantasm, as unreal, and the embrace of this world as the only reality; the rejection of human love and fellow-feeling as unreal and valueless, and the embrace of our personal appetites and desires as the only things worthy of being valued. Yet it is this world, this present moment which eludes our grasp and passes away, which is ultimately unreal, and our passing whims and appetites which are unworthy and valueless. We reject what is real and valuable and try to grasp worthless phantoms and shadows….
annatar1914 wrote:@Potemkin , @Verv , and @Political Interest :
I had intended to balance out my critique and examination of the Western and Faustian civilization with the Magian and Monotheistic one, and so it seems appropriate on the feast day of St Job the long suffering (who lived in Uz in the land of Arabia) to do exactly that in the next post or so, contrasting Babylon with the Wilderness.
And Job is a good place as any to start, because his friends who subject him and God to a human standard of ethics and reason and who are in the end confounded.
And yet, carry even that Truth too far to the exclusion of other parts of the Truth, and that becomes the source of other delusions and errors.
So... One cannot ignore Islam concerning Magian cultural beliefs for the same reason that I suggested " Mormonism " as the future religion of the West: without a spiritual foundation, all one has are these systems of formal religion which however manage to " explain " reality in a deceptively simple and logically airtight manner, within the context of the civilization.
late wrote:60 pages of holy crap?
You almost prove my point just by yourself. In any case, you are once again violating the whole reason for this sub forum, the " Spirituality " section.
late wrote:"Thus, modern movements like the Azov in the Ukraine: anti Islamic, anti semitic, anti Orthodox Christian, Pagan and explicitly white supremacist, are at the material tip of the spear of the Western trend. This trend will shortly be universal in the West, open and only weakly opposed. Movements like Azov are the future of the West, just starting, not ending. "
Politics in robes, and still crap.
The West is secular, and for good reasons. While movements arise, they don't last.
Again, you rather make my point about the West. That what I speak of exists and is no phantom. You may be disgusted with the results at times and most emphatically deny paternity, but there it is.
By whom? By US, UK, Spanish or French soldiers? G[…]
Supply and demand, @BlutoSays . If demand exceed[…]
It started going down when daddy's spoiled boy pre[…]
@Igor Antunov Well, Finland and Sweden are joi[…]