Woman claimed her husband repeatedly raped her, jury says he is not guilty - Page 9 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15228642
Godstud wrote:If sex in a marriage is not consensual, then it's RAPE!

It's not the same type of "rape" that other rapes are.

My argument is just that the government should be very reluctant to get involved, in most of these cases.

My argument isn't that it's okay or some good thing that should be recommend for all men to do. It's just not anywhere close to being as bad as normal rape.
#15228643
We seem to have a slightly different understanding of what "consensual" means. No. You are trying to change it. You are disingenuous.

Consent
permission for something to happen or agreement to do something.

When it comes to sex, it requires explicit consent.

Explicit
stated clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt.

Merely being married is NOT consent for sex. Partial consent for sex, is not a thing. Implied consent isn't, either.

Unless it's explicit consent for sex, it's rape.

Why do you have a problem with this? Are you a rapist looking for an excuse?

Puffer Fish wrote:It's not the same type of "rape" that other rapes are.
Rape is rape. Murder is murder. You can call it something else, like sexual assault within a marriage, but it's still rape.

Puffer Fish wrote:My argument is just that the government should be very reluctant to get involved, in most of these cases.
Your argument is SHIT. Laws exist and are enforced by the government. Society WANTS those laws enforced.

Puffer Fish wrote:My argument isn't that it's okay or some good thing that should be recommend for all men to do. It's just not anywhere close to being as bad as normal rape.


That you want rape to be legal is obvious, and fucking disturbing. Seek help.
#15228644
Godstud wrote:Society WANTS those laws enforced.

The Muslim World would laugh at you.

That's a third of the world.


It's not just the Muslim World. I know a conservative forum where most of the members there would find some of your statements kind of absurd.


I almost kind of chuckled at this one of yours:
Godstud wrote:If sex in a marriage is not consensual, then it's RAPE!


Conservatives have a very serious and more specific understanding of what rape is, and it's different than yours.
#15228645
Puffer Fish wrote:The Muslim World would laugh at you.
really?
We're not discussing "the Muslim world" in the OP. Also, they have rape laws, as well.

In fact:
Azam Noor claims that Islamic law classified marital rape as an act of aggression against the wife. Marital rape can lead to prosecutions against the husband and the wife obtaining divorce, but the punishments are not as severe as they are against other forms of rape.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_I ... 0of%20rape.

So whereas they may be more lenient, rape still exists.

Puffer Fish wrote:It's not just the Muslim World. I know a conservative forum where most of the members there would find some of your statements kind of absurd.
So Conservatives are more prone to be rapists? Hmmmm.

That forum is probably chock full of future rapists, Incels and misogynists. I'd recommend avoiding it so you can stay off sexual offender lists. I wouldn't give a shit what those scumbags think of me. I have morals and integrity.
#15228646
"While marital rape is not illegal under Indonesia’s Criminal Code, it is criminalized by the Domestic Violence Protection Act. However, those cases carry a higher burden of proof and a lower maximum punishment - 12 years - than rape outside marriage."

In other words, they're not going to take the woman's word for it that it happened.

And I can tell you, that maximum punishment is definitely not going to be implemented unless threats and severe violence were used.
#15228648
Godstud wrote: So Conservatives are more prone to be rapists? Hmmmm.

This idea that if a man asks his wife to have sex and then she says "I don't really feel like it tonight", and then he has sex with her anyway, that that is RAPE, is absurd.

I'd say at the very least there needs to be some strong words, screaming, her trying to push him off her, or run away, for that situation to start looking like rape.

But even then, I'd be very reluctant to criminally charge the man with the sexual component of that, since it happened in a marriage, and it could unfairly label him a "rapist" when it actually happened within a marriage, and we might only be taking the woman's word that it happened. Instead he could be criminally charged with the other things he did to her, threats of grievous bodily harm, any serious injuries inflicted on her. Maybe even "assault" (if she has any way to prove it happened, which is unlikely).
#15228650
Godstud wrote:You're a future rapist in the making, @Puffer Fish.

That's a very unfair statement, given that numerous times in this discussion I have clarified that there is a difference between legal and moral.

Not all things that are morally wrong should be illegal. (And some things that have been made illegal are not morally wrong)

People like you, with your ill thought out laws will (and are) bring disaster and chaos to marriage.
#15228657
Puffer Fish wrote:That's a very unfair statement, given that numerous times in this discussion I have clarified that there is a difference between legal and moral.
It is very fair, given your statements. Rape is neither legal, nor moral.

Are you going to argue that beating your wife is acceptable behavior next, simply because you saw Sean Connery do it in a movie 60 years ago? :?:

Puffer Fish wrote:Not all things that are morally wrong should be illegal. (And some things that have been made illegal are not morally wrong)
Well, society doesn't agree with your immoral arguments to this effect. Society determines what is moral or not, not individuals.

Puffer Fish wrote:People like you, with your ill thought out laws will (and are) bring disaster and chaos to marriage.
You mean people like me(society) who don't want other people to be mistreated or victimized in a marriage?

Do you mean people like me(society) who believe that the very sanctity of marriage is threatened by marital rape, when the marriage vows that most people take is to honour, respect, and love their spouse?

Do you mean people like me(society) who think that the laws should be made to should defend of rape, violence, and abuse?

Rape and abuse brings disaster and chaos to marriages, and yet that is exactly what you are supporting.

Maybe you need to rethink your position.
#15228723
Godstud wrote: You mean people like me(society) who don't want other people to be mistreated or victimized in a marriage?

No, I mean these sort of laws will have unintended effects, which you so casually overlook.

It will lead to some marriages falling apart, when they wouldn't have otherwise.

Of course you don't care about that at all.
#15228724
Puffer Fish wrote:
No, I mean these sort of laws will have unintended effects, which you so casually overlook.



There is nothing casual about it.

Law backs it's way into the future. It deals with one problem, and then they try and deal with the problems that arise from the new situation.

New law is often needed for that.

A problem is often not a reason to go backwards, it's a reason to go forward..
#15228738
Puffer Fish wrote:No, I mean these sort of laws will have unintended effects, which you so casually overlook.

It will lead to some marriages falling apart, when they wouldn't have otherwise.

Of course you don't care about that at all.


Laws tend to have "unintended effects" but that is not a justifiable reason to oppose laws to be created and enforced.

If a marriage is doomed to fall apart, then it falls apart. No one can force a doomed marriage to not fall apart.

@Godstud cares about treating women with respect and dignity within a marriage and outside a marriage as well. He is a true gentleman.

The fact that you are nitpicking between legal and moral aspects of rape and looking up laws from various countries seems a bit sketchy. Why does it matter what other countries think about rape? Why should a violent husband be found not guilty of violating his loving wife who stays with him because she feels obligated to for children and family reasons? She deserves better. But in some cultures, a wife is unable to get a divorce on her own, she needs approval from the patriarchal male in her family. It's truly unfair and backwards.
#15228801
MistyTiger wrote:If a marriage is doomed to fall apart, then it falls apart. No one can force a doomed marriage to not fall apart.

No offense intended, but oftentimes women can be hysterical, emotional, and illogical.

They may be likely to make accusations in cases where they would not be willing to seek a divorce.

That is, the woman might want her husband put in prison for rape, but she does not want to divorce him. And would not seek a divorce even if he could not be put in prison.
#15228802
MistyTiger wrote:Godstud cares about treating women with respect and dignity within a marriage and outside a marriage as well. He is a true gentleman.

You're making a fallacy assuming that just because I think the government should stay out of it, I do not care.

In fact I do care. It would be better to try to keep marriages intact, if possible. That is better for all parties involved.
#15228803
Puffer Fish wrote:No offense intended, but oftentimes women can be hysterical, emotional, and illogical.
You DO intend offense. You've been extremely offensive throughout this thread, especially to any female posters who might look at the rape cheerleading you've been doing.

Men can be hysterical, emotional and illogical, too. Nice sexism there. :roll:

Puffer Fish wrote:They may be likely to make accusations in cases where they would not be willing to seek a divorce.
Please post a source demonstrating this. You make all these claims that are not supported by reality, or fact.

Puffer Fish wrote:That is, the woman might want her husband put in prison for rape, but she does not want to divorce him. And would not seek a divorce even if he could not be put in prison.
Any man who rapes a woman, even his wife, SHOULD be in jail. Whether or not she wants to divorce him, or not, is irrelevant to the fact that he raped her.

She might not be divorcing him for the sake of the children. There's a lot of reasons why a raped woman would, or wouldn't divorce their husband who raped them. It's all supposition, however.

Puffer Fish wrote:You're making a fallacy assuming that just because I think the government should stay out of it, I do not care.
Yes, you do care. You are constantly ranting on about this as your statements support the very thing you claim not to care about. It's not a fallacy if it's true. You've said as much.

Puffer Fish wrote:In fact I do care. It would be better to try to keep marriages intact, if possible. That is better for all parties involved.
If the man has to rape his wife, then the marriage is obviously NOT good. A marriage where a man rapes his wife is not a good marriage.

Why would you want to keep a Shit marriage together? Is it simply to pad the statistics, or is it you once again, wanting marital rape to be more prevalent?
#15228899
Puffer Fish wrote:You're making a fallacy assuming that just because I think the government should stay out of it, I do not care.

In fact I do care. It would be better to try to keep marriages intact, if possible. That is better for all parties involved.


Good, strong marriages should be kept intact. A marriage full of abuse, drama and unhappiness should not be kept intact. That is such an unhealthy, toxic environment for both spouses if it's rife with abuse and drama. You can bet the wife is experiencing some emotional trauma, maybe the husband too. I know a thing or two about emotional suffering and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
#15228901
Puffer Fish wrote:No offense intended, but oftentimes women can be hysterical, emotional, and illogical.


Oftentimes? Where is your evidence? How do you define oftentimes? Have you witnessed "oftentimes" of women being hysterical, emotional and illogical? Have you been counting? Please provide the proof or don't make such a claim as this and yes I think offense is intended.

They may be likely to make accusations in cases where they would not be willing to seek a divorce.


How do you know? Have you been speaking with dozens of battered wives who are unwilling to sue for divorce? What makes you qualified to make this claim?

That is, the woman might want her husband put in prison for rape, but she does not want to divorce him. And would not seek a divorce even if he could not be put in prison.


How do you know? Where is your evidence? Have you been an abused wife in a tumultuous marriage? Have you ever been married? Do you have children?
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