Using immigration to replace the voters with new ones - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15228906
BlutoSays wrote:You see white supremacists under the bed. Get back on your Thorazine drip.


YYou are denying reality here Bluto.

So Lets be clear are you denying there were large numbers of White Supremacists at the Capital>

Tehre flags were clearly visible in the footage. These groups exist. They attached themselves to Trump. Fox News repeats there propaganda,

Idiots go out and kill people on the basis of it.
#15228934
Unchecked Capitalism? Check.

@BlutoSays being a confidently incorrect? Check.

Your stupid regulations aren't working, so yes, it is unchecked.

Sen. Rand Paul: EpiPen Scandal Is a Perfect Example of Crony Capitalism

Yet this relief has turned into another burden, with a pack of just two EpiPens skyrocketing to more than $600 in the United States.

To fully comprehend the outrage of this price, you must realize that the epinephrine included in the EpiPen costs less than $10 retail.

Some are pointing toward this as an example of corporate greed or the excesses of capitalism, but they’re missing the larger picture. This is an almost perfect example of crony capitalism and a government-dominated system that is failing consumers.

https://time.com/4482179/sen-rand-paul-epipen-scandal/

The evils of unregulated capitalism

Just a few years ago, a powerful ideology – the belief in free and unfettered markets – brought the world to the brink of ruin. Even in its hey-day, from the early 1980s until 2007, US-style deregulated capitalism brought greater material well-being only to the very richest in the richest country of the world.

Indeed, over the course of this ideology’s 30-year ascendance, most Americans saw their incomes decline or stagnate year after year.

Moreover, output growth in the United States was not economically sustainable. With so much of US national income going to so few, growth could continue only through consumption financed by a mounting pile of debt.

I was among those who hoped that, somehow, the financial crisis would teach Americans (and others) a lesson about the need for greater equality, stronger regulation, and a better balance between the market and government.

Alas, that has not been the case.

On the contrary, a resurgence of right-wing economics, driven, as always, by ideology and special interests, once again threatens the global economy – or at least the economies of Europe and America, where these ideas continue to flourish.

In the US, this right-wing resurgence, whose adherents evidently seek to repeal the basic laws of mathematics and economics, is threatening to force a default on the national debt. If Congress mandates expenditures that exceed revenues, there will be a deficit, and that deficit has to be financed.

Rather than carefully balancing the benefits of each government expenditure program with the costs of raising taxes to finance those benefits, the right seeks to use a sledgehammer – not allowing the national debt to increase forces expenditures to be limited to taxes.

Remedy for the US economy: end the wars, rein in military and drug costs, and raise taxes – at least on the very rich.
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2011 ... capitalism

Six people who prove capitalism is broken in America
Over the last few years, the Guardian talked to many people for whom capitalism isn’t working – here are a few of their stories
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... in-america
#15228940
So it is unquestionable that the Republican party is racist. It freely admits it. It openly practices it. All one has to do is point to the racist gerrymandering that dilutes the black vote and other forms of voter suppression to see the proof. So we need not entertain any
nonsense asserting that the party is not racist. It simply is and admits it.

That said.

I could make a very good case for a Hispanic or black male supporting the republicans and, yes, even Trump. They might do it because even though they might lose some representative power they are getting the things they like. Some facts:

Hispanic and Non White Americans are evenly split on abortion but democrats are overwhelmingly pro choice. Score for Republicans.

Less than 50% if black protestants favor same sex marriage. Score for Republicans.

Blacks in general and working class blacks particularly are anti immigration is pretty substantial numbers. Score Republicans.

Although black people *56% believe that gun purchase laws should be tougher, 44% say they should not be more restrictive. Substantially higher than in white people. Gun ownership by blacks in increasing. Score Republicans (gaining ground)

76% of Hispanic Evangelicals (a greater percentage than white Evangelicals) are pro-life. Score republicans.

Many black people are tough on crime. Score republicans.

Then there is "The promise". For a couple of generations now the democrats have forwarded the notion that they are better for blacks and Hispanics than Republicans are. Well. As the saying goes...."Show me the money." Inflation is killing the working class. The skyrocketing price of housing is killing the middle class. Schools are in the dumpster. And speaking of dumpster fires, take a look at voting rights. The Democrats just ignored the shit out of blacks and Hispanics on this issue. Not that the republicans are better but it is yet another broken promise.

So there is my case. Blacks and Hispanics may not get lip service or even a seat at the table from Republicans but on things they care about the Democrats are just not delivering the goods. But Republicans are.

To put it another way, Blacks and Hispanics are far more inherently conservative than many people think and on a wide variety of issues. And unless Democrats start delivering on their promises they could easily change camps.
#15228941
Puffer Fish wrote:Do you even realise what living standards in most of the world are like?

You can't answer the question WHY other countries are so terrible. Doesn't that worry you at all?
No, because you just take things for granted.

Get rid of all borders and open the country up, and I can guarantee you in short order your country will be pretty much just like the parts of the world where all these people are coming from.

Guess you don't believe that, or don't care. Or you are so ignorant you do not even realise what that will mean.


You are living under the illusion that people immigrate to other nations on some foolish whim or something. Most people who uproot themselves do so fully knowing how difficult it is. Most people spend many years building up relationships with their families and their friends. Speaking their native languages, and living in their own communities. They would prefer to stay in their own countries. The reason they don't or can't? Are varied. One of them is not being able to make a living. Period. Can't find a job or the job doesn't even scratch the surface of minimal bills. Fleeing high crime or violence. Fleeing government dysfunction or corruption by powerful people like cops, judges, law enforcement, and politicians with a lot of power. Threats by criminal gangs and or lawlessness. Pollution and not being able to live anymore in a traditional rural or urban neighborhood because there is lead, poison, and pollutants that are either deadly or threatening their health status. War. Chaos and death are imminent. Fear of the future. This one has to do with uncertainty related to unstable life. Pandemics, loss of businesses, and loss of revenues, and is in deep debt and hopeless financial situations. Natural disasters and hurricanes, fires, floods, mudslides, earthquakes, tornadoes, storms, etc. Nothing is working in that place.

So migration is not something whimsical. It usually has underlying very compelling reasons for the move. What needs to happen is to understand how one goes about dealing with the issue of millions of people becoming displaced, bankrupt, unemployed for a long time, or traumatized by war or catastrophes. How to make their lives better. Not worse.
#15228967
Godstud wrote:Unchecked Capitalism? Check.

@BlutoSays being a confidently incorrect? Check.

Your stupid regulations aren't working, so yes, it is unchecked.

Sen. Rand Paul: EpiPen Scandal Is a Perfect Example of Crony Capitalism

Yet this relief has turned into another burden, with a pack of just two EpiPens skyrocketing to more than $600 in the United States.

To fully comprehend the outrage of this price, you must realize that the epinephrine included in the EpiPen costs less than $10 retail.

Some are pointing toward this as an example of corporate greed or the excesses of capitalism, but they’re missing the larger picture. This is an almost perfect example of crony capitalism and a government-dominated system that is failing consumers.

https://time.com/4482179/sen-rand-paul-epipen-scandal/

The evils of unregulated capitalism

Just a few years ago, a powerful ideology – the belief in free and unfettered markets – brought the world to the brink of ruin. Even in its hey-day, from the early 1980s until 2007, US-style deregulated capitalism brought greater material well-being only to the very richest in the richest country of the world.

Indeed, over the course of this ideology’s 30-year ascendance, most Americans saw their incomes decline or stagnate year after year.

Moreover, output growth in the United States was not economically sustainable. With so much of US national income going to so few, growth could continue only through consumption financed by a mounting pile of debt.

I was among those who hoped that, somehow, the financial crisis would teach Americans (and others) a lesson about the need for greater equality, stronger regulation, and a better balance between the market and government.

Alas, that has not been the case.

On the contrary, a resurgence of right-wing economics, driven, as always, by ideology and special interests, once again threatens the global economy – or at least the economies of Europe and America, where these ideas continue to flourish.

In the US, this right-wing resurgence, whose adherents evidently seek to repeal the basic laws of mathematics and economics, is threatening to force a default on the national debt. If Congress mandates expenditures that exceed revenues, there will be a deficit, and that deficit has to be financed.

Rather than carefully balancing the benefits of each government expenditure program with the costs of raising taxes to finance those benefits, the right seeks to use a sledgehammer – not allowing the national debt to increase forces expenditures to be limited to taxes.

Remedy for the US economy: end the wars, rein in military and drug costs, and raise taxes – at least on the very rich.
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2011 ... capitalism

Six people who prove capitalism is broken in America
Over the last few years, the Guardian talked to many people for whom capitalism isn’t working – here are a few of their stories
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... in-america


Hullo? Did you read the article by Ran Paul that you posted? See your link above.

"There isn’t a whole lot of capitalism in health care anymore. In fact, that’s one of the major problems we have to fix. There are very few market forces and competition, and most of us are shielded from caring what something costs.

But we don’t always see why this is so. Obamacare promised to make this better, but it has made it worse, with a long list of mandates and subsidies that further drive out any market force."
#15228969
Drlee wrote:So it is unquestionable that the Republican party is racist. It freely admits it. It openly practices it. All one has to do is point to the racist gerrymandering that dilutes the black vote and other forms of voter suppression to see the proof. So we need not entertain any
nonsense asserting that the party is not racist. It simply is and admits it.

That said.

I could make a very good case for a Hispanic or black male supporting the republicans and, yes, even Trump. They might do it because even though they might lose some representative power they are getting the things they like. Some facts:

Hispanic and Non White Americans are evenly split on abortion but democrats are overwhelmingly pro choice. Score for Republicans.

Less than 50% if black protestants favor same sex marriage. Score for Republicans.

Blacks in general and working class blacks particularly are anti immigration is pretty substantial numbers. Score Republicans.

Although black people *56% believe that gun purchase laws should be tougher, 44% say they should not be more restrictive. Substantially higher than in white people. Gun ownership by blacks in increasing. Score Republicans (gaining ground)

76% of Hispanic Evangelicals (a greater percentage than white Evangelicals) are pro-life. Score republicans.

Many black people are tough on crime. Score republicans.

Then there is "The promise". For a couple of generations now the democrats have forwarded the notion that they are better for blacks and Hispanics than Republicans are. Well. As the saying goes...."Show me the money." Inflation is killing the working class. The skyrocketing price of housing is killing the middle class. Schools are in the dumpster. And speaking of dumpster fires, take a look at voting rights. The Democrats just ignored the shit out of blacks and Hispanics on this issue. Not that the republicans are better but it is yet another broken promise.

So there is my case. Blacks and Hispanics may not get lip service or even a seat at the table from Republicans but on things they care about the Democrats are just not delivering the goods. But Republicans are.

To put it another way, Blacks and Hispanics are far more inherently conservative than many people think and on a wide variety of issues. And unless Democrats start delivering on their promises they could easily change camps.


Two problems with your assertions.

1) The DNC is every bit as focused on gerrymandering by demographic as the GOP is. Why do you think they're shipping hispanics from the southern borders to certain cities on midnight flights and redrawing congressional redistricting lines wherever they can? They gerrymander anytime they have an opportunity. But republicans can't match Hillary Clinton yapping in ebonics in a black southern church on command (embarrassing, I know). Republicans are still bested there.

2) "unless Democrats start delivering on their promises they could easily change camps"?

Do you know what democrat promises are? Given that you stated "Blacks and Hispanics are far more inherently conservative than many people think and on a wide variety of issues", I don't think you know what the DNC's promises are. Suggest you review their promises and platform.
#15228972
The article wrote:"There isn’t a whole lot of capitalism in health care anymore. In fact, that’s one of the major problems we have to fix. There are very few market forces and competition, and most of us are shielded from caring what something costs.
That doesn't negate what was said. Nor does it negate the other sources I provided.

How is having to pay $600 for a $10 epipen NOT unchecked capitalism?

Trump promised to replace ACA(Obamacare) with something better, but he didn't, so you can blame Trump, you dumbass. :lol:
#15229024
Godstud wrote:How is having to pay $600 for a $10 epipen NOT unchecked capitalism?

Well, first I would encourage you to look at how government court-imposed legal liability and health regulations causes an increase in those prices.
(If one person sues the company for millions of dollars, the company is going to have to raise all its prices in accordance)

If that is not the issue, then the problem is likely a lack of competition.


But you just seem to be trying to deflect with whataboutism. This is not even the topic of this thread.
#15229029
Puffer Fish wrote:Well, first I would encourage you to look at how government court-imposed legal liability and health regulations causes an increase in those prices.
(If one person sues the company for millions of dollars, the company is going to have to raise all its prices in accordance)
That's Bullshit and you know it. Epinephrine is a cheap drug that is easily administered without risk.

Puffer Fish wrote:If that is not the issue, then the problem is likely a lack of competition.
Funny that....
This is why they were sued.

EpiPen Makers Agree to Pay $264 Million Settlement in Lawsuit Over Their Price Hikes
Viatris Inc., formerly called Mylan, settled a class action lawsuit alleging that they were in a scheme to monopolize the market for the life-saving medication
https://people.com/health/epipen-makers ... ice-hikes/

Puffer Fish wrote:But you just seem to be trying to deflect with whataboutism. This is not even the topic of this thread.
You've already stated that your reasons for yacking about immigration is racist. I am responding to the other stupid fucking things that you have said, or that @BlutoSays has said.

You're making claims that immigration is bad but then Capitalism supports it, wholeheartedly. Immigration is supported by Capitalism and it's not some conspiracy theory bullshit to replace voters. :lol:
#15229068
BlutoSays wrote:Two problems with your assertions.

1) The DNC is every bit as focused on gerrymandering by demographic as the GOP is. Why do you think they're shipping hispanics from the southern borders to certain cities on midnight flights and redrawing congressional redistricting lines wherever they can? They gerrymander anytime they have an opportunity. But republicans can't match Hillary Clinton yapping in ebonics in a black southern church on command (embarrassing, I know). Republicans are still bested there.

2) "unless Democrats start delivering on their promises they could easily change camps"?

Do you know what democrat promises are? Given that you stated "Blacks and Hispanics are far more inherently conservative than many people think and on a wide variety of issues", I don't think you know what the DNC's promises are. Suggest you review their promises and platform.



While I am not buying the nonsense about midnight flights as it is just another untrue Fox News talking point, I never said that the democrats are not gerrymandering. I said that the Republicans are gerrymandering in a way that harms blacks and other minorities. The democrats just the opposite.

Your comment about Clinton only further makes my point. There she is in a black church stumping for votes and talking about issues important to black people and her clumsy attempt to flatter belied two much bigger problems. The first is that she was thinking that "all black people believe" when the polls show just the opposite for a large number of them and the second is that, judging from the actions of the Biden administration, she had no intention of doing anything for them anyway.

But how is it that you are disagreeing with me here? You and I may disagree on what is good for black people and what is not. Both of us would take a conservative view but you appear to be much further right than I am so there is some difference. That is healthy debate within the party. The problem is not what the democrats promise. The problem is that even though they supposedly have control of the house and senate* they have done fuck all for black people since taking control. They would not even go to the mat to be sure black people could vote.

*They do not have control of the Senate, the republicans do. Manchin and Sinema are both more reliable republican voters that are several of the actual republicans. So one could give Biden a pass because it is true that if all of the democrats voted together like all of the republicans do, he would have done some things.
#15229078
BlutoSays wrote:… Why do you think they're shipping hispanics from the southern borders to certain cities on midnight flights and redrawing congressional redistricting lines wherever they can?


This is the same reason that the recent terrorist gave for his mass murder in Buffalo.
#15229082
BlutoSays wrote:Two problems with your assertions.

1) The DNC is every bit as focused on gerrymandering by demographic as the GOP is. Why do you think they're shipping hispanics from the southern borders to certain cities on midnight flights and redrawing congressional redistricting lines wherever they can? They gerrymander anytime they have an opportunity. But republicans can't match Hillary Clinton yapping in ebonics in a black southern church on command (embarrassing, I know). Republicans are still bested there.

2) "unless Democrats start delivering on their promises they could easily change camps"?

Do you know what democrat promises are? Given that you stated "Blacks and Hispanics are far more inherently conservative than many people think and on a wide variety of issues", I don't think you know what the DNC's promises are. Suggest you review their promises and platform.


@Drlee is right, at least as far as Hispanics go. If the GOP wasn't playing anti-immigration sentiment that directly impacts Hispanics, it would have far, far more support than it has in that demographic.

Didn't the GOP learn from the loss of California in the 1990s? Playing its own type of identity politics was convenient in the short run but destroyed the party in the state in the long run and it is still basically dead.
#15229389
Drlee wrote:While I am not buying the nonsense about midnight flights as it is just another untrue Fox News talking point, I never said that the democrats are not gerrymandering. I said that the Republicans are gerrymandering in a way that harms blacks and other minorities. The democrats just the opposite.

Your comment about Clinton only further makes my point. There she is in a black church stumping for votes and talking about issues important to black people and her clumsy attempt to flatter belied two much bigger problems. The first is that she was thinking that "all black people believe" when the polls show just the opposite for a large number of them and the second is that, judging from the actions of the Biden administration, she had no intention of doing anything for them anyway.

But how is it that you are disagreeing with me here? You and I may disagree on what is good for black people and what is not. Both of us would take a conservative view but you appear to be much further right than I am so there is some difference. That is healthy debate within the party. The problem is not what the democrats promise. The problem is that even though they supposedly have control of the house and senate* they have done fuck all for black people since taking control. They would not even go to the mat to be sure black people could vote.

*They do not have control of the Senate, the republicans do. Manchin and Sinema are both more reliable republican voters that are several of the actual republicans. So one could give Biden a pass because it is true that if all of the democrats voted together like all of the republicans do, he would have done some things.


Just to go by the same definition, gerrymandering is giving an advantage to one side over another by drawing favorable district voting lines.

You say democrats are giving themselves an advantage in one direction and republicans are giving themselves an advantage in the other. Great, but democrats couldn't give a crap about African Americans other than for votes and power; they're quite happy to keep African Americans on the plantation. That's where democrats derive their power. If no one is on the plantation and needy, democrats do not have power. AND any African American who is successful is then an "oreo cookie". You know it's true. I know it's true. Finally on this topic, democrats have to keep that narrative going... climate justice...wokeness...reproductive rights. Whatever wedge issue it takes, they crank it up on command, weaponize it and throw it into protests and riots strategically placed to stir people for power.

But hey, anytime democrats would like to cite republicans for rioting and destroying private property, lighting police stations on fire with police inside, attempting arson on federal court houses or taking over entire neighborhoods and holding them as fortresses, tipping over statues, defunding police and blinding cops with lasers or throwing bottles of frozen urine at them and working overtime to get the people that do that released from jail without penalty, please point these republicans out. Run on sentence, but there's so much more I could pack into that.

Democrats do have control of the senate. Just because they can't keep their caucus together on some issues doesn't mean they don't have control. In the future, everyone will say Democrats had the House, Senate and Presidency. Just because the party took the all or nothing approach is their fault. (But thank God we didn't get another five trillion in helicopter money - emphasis mine).

If you make this statement "The problem is not what the democrats promise." and this statement "Both of us would take a conservative view", then those two cannot be reconciled. I, as a conservative, look at the entire democrat party agenda as batshit crazy, from A-Z and everything in between. You will never convince me otherwise. They have bad policy on every one of their agenda items. At this point, I don't even know what makes a democrat tick other than jealousy.

I'll say this again: democrats do not/did not have a mandate after the 2020 election. But they had to do a 180 on every issue. The democrat party now has two wings - loon and loon on steroids and the two are fighting over where the loon line actually is. That's on no one but them.

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