Police Killing of Black Immigrant Patrick Lyoya - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15226430
Quick Summary: It wasn't the outrageous act of "racist murder" some are trying to make it out to be

Patrick Lyoya killed after struggle with officer during Grand Rapids traffic stop

Lyoya's death and others like it can rattle the sense of security of Black immigrants and refugees who came to the U.S. to escape violence only to find themselves vulnerable to the same brutality and racism African Americans encounter from police as well as the additional specter of federal immigration authorities, immigration advocates told USA TODAY.

"It's shocking to Black migrants who have this vision of the United States as the land of the free and the home of the brave," said Nana Gyamfi, executive director of the Black Alliance for Just Immigration. "There's a notion that police here are going to be different."

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... 318904001/


Watching the video...

He was completely uncooperative the whole time. There may have been some language barrier too.

The officer attempted to detain him and put him in handcuffs, which is very common in this situation (whether you agree with this or not). Then of course he resisted.

The immigrant was acting like some person from another country who had no idea of how these police traffic stops worked.

I think it's fair to say this would have never happened with a white person. (Not claiming racism, just that a white person would have never reacted that way)

If you expect police to "enforce the law", they're going to have to do things like this.

The situation escalated. The officer was trying to exert his authority to enforce the law. The immigrant who was stopped acted like it was a random person who was accosting him and violating his rights. (Which it was, unless you believe police should have the right to do this to enforce the law)

I can see both sides to this story. I think it demonstrates there are a lot of unsaid expected protocols and rules that are involved when a traffic officer pulls a car over.

I think this situation illustrates how the law is fascism, but also illustrates how people have an obligation not to be immature and need to follow certain protocols to avoid situations like this going bad.

This isn't just the simple black & white thing people want it to be. Enforcing laws, even basic laws, does inherently violate fundamental laws. Many on the Left simply will not want to see that.
#15226654
Here's a peek-behind-the-curtain:



The prime minister, Mahinda Rajapakse, the president’s brother, yesterday assembled hundreds of ruling Sri Lanka Podujana Peramuna (SLPP) supporters, many of them bussed in from other parts of the island, to his official residence in central Colombo. After a deliberately inflammatory speech, they were sent out armed with sticks and clubs, firstly to attack protesters outside the residence and then those occupying Galle Face Green about a kilometre down the road.

The police, although armed with tear gas and water cannon, did nothing to stop them until the rampage on Galle Face Green was complete. More than a hundred people were hospitalised with injuries caused by the thugs.



https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/0 ... l-m10.html
#15228924
ckaihatsu wrote:Does a person have a right to *not-being-killed*, at any given interaction with cops -- ?

No, they actually don't.

If you don't want to be killed, it's probably not a good to take a law enforcement officer's taser gun.
At that point it was then legal for the immigrant to be shot. He could have used that taser gun to temporarily disable the officer and take his gun.


Some might try to argue the suspect was using self defense. Regardless of whether the suspect had the legal right to use self defense, the officer still had the right to shoot him in response.

(Some of you may be confusing exactly what a "legal right" means. The right to do something and not be sent to prison for it is not always the same thing as the right to do something and have another person punished if that person hurts you in a situation because you did that thing. There can theoretically even be situations where it would be legal for two different people to try to kill each other, both thinking they are acting in self defense. There can be misunderstandings, or lack of available information in certain situations)
#15228979
Puffer Fish wrote:
No, they actually don't.

If you don't want to be killed, it's probably not a good to take a law enforcement officer's taser gun.
At that point it was then legal for the immigrant to be shot. He could have used that taser gun to temporarily disable the officer and take his gun.


Some might try to argue the suspect was using self defense. Regardless of whether the suspect had the legal right to use self defense, the officer still had the right to shoot him in response.

(Some of you may be confusing exactly what a "legal right" means. The right to do something and not be sent to prison for it is not always the same thing as the right to do something and have another person punished if that person hurts you in a situation because you did that thing. There can theoretically even be situations where it would be legal for two different people to try to kill each other, both thinking they are acting in self defense. There can be misunderstandings, or lack of available information in certain situations)



The police don't exactly enjoy the-benefit-of-the-doubt, shall we say, with such systematic killer cop killings taking place every year -- so maybe you'll forgive the conditioned *skepticism* over the official cop story.

What does the *community* say about all of this?
#15228992
ckaihatsu wrote:The police don't exactly enjoy the-benefit-of-the-doubt, shall we say,

No they don't, with the current political climate and media trying to shape a narrative to suite their purposes.

I have never been in favor of giving law enforcement the benefit of the doubt, just because they are "doing their job", but the current state of affairs has gone too far.

This African immigrant was acting stupid and has now been removed from the gene pool.

Anyone who thinks this law enforcement officer should somehow been able to have enforced the law while at the same time never killing is just having unrealistic expectations and being stupid. It's like you people aren't even willing to think.
#15228997
Puffer Fish wrote:
No they don't, with the current political climate and media trying to shape a narrative to suite their purposes.

I have never been in favor of giving law enforcement the benefit of the doubt, just because they are "doing their job", but the current state of affairs has gone too far.

This African immigrant was acting stupid and has now been removed from the gene pool.

Anyone who thinks this law enforcement officer should somehow been able to have enforced the law while at the same time never killing is just having unrealistic expectations and being stupid. It's like you people aren't even willing to think.



Here's what *I* know of what happened -- the cops are not to be taken at face-value on *this* one, either:


Grand Rapids cop executes youth from Congo

By Liv Lashley

Image
Lyoya's friends and family reenact the suppressed video of his murder. (Fight Back! News/Staff)


Grand Rapids, MI - Hundreds marched to remember Patrick Lyoya, a 26-year-old African man murdered by Grand Rapids police in Michigan. Lyoya’s family led a march, April 9, through the Black neighborhood of Boston Square to a vigil for their first-born son.

After shooting Lyoya on April 4, the police immediately created their own story for broadcast to local news stations. That story fell apart within hours. The police claim there was a struggle, but Lyoya’s father, Peter Lyoya, said through an interpreter that there was no struggle in the video he was shown. Lyoya said the video shows his son being murdered “execution style.”

“My son was killed like an animal. The way that the police assassinated my son, he was already laying on the floor, and he had his hands behind his back.” Lyoya continued: “I knew that to come to America, it was going to be safe, and there is no safety here. I thought I would give them a good life. Now he is gone, I have lost him.”

The Lyoya family immigrated from the Democratic Republic of the Congo in 2014 to escape political violence.

In a heartbreaking moment, Patrick Lyoya’s family stopped the march at the scene of his murder to reenact the killing, to show the world what the police still refuse to show. Two young men came forward from the crowd, one representing Patrick, lying in the street on his stomach, hands behind his back. The other portrayed the killer cop, with a hand on Patrick's back holding him down, the other hand miming a gun pointing at the back of Patrick's head, while his family sang through sobs in his memory. The crowd was in tears, but then started chanting with raised fists.

Activists filled the neighborhood streets with chants of “Release the video!” and “Name the killer cop!” Meanwhile the Grand Rapids Police Department has dragged its feet on releasing the police car’s dashcam video of the killing. Police Chief Eric Winstrom says he will do so on Friday - the slowest news cycle day of the week.

Lyoya’s family want justice. They want the video showing the police assassination released on Monday, April 11, and they want the cop who shot him named, and prosecuted for his crime.

Black liberation organization Voices of the Revolution helped the family organize the march and vigil, with County Commissioner Robert Womack lending his support.

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#15229027
ckaihatsu wrote:Grand Rapids, MI - Hundreds marched to remember Patrick Lyoya, a 26-year-old African man murdered by Grand Rapids police in Michigan.

If it was a "murder" then maybe you need to put all the lawmakers in prison for telling the officer to enforce this law and make an arrest.

The officer tried making an arrest. The suspect resisted, put the law enforcement officer in danger, and the law enforcement officer responded in the only way that was rational and possible, killing the suspect.
#15229036
If he was white, @Puffer Fish, you'd be screaming bloody murder, but you're a racist, so such isn't the case.

Police are always there to put themselves at risk for the benefit of everyone. This is yet another case of police using deadly force simply based on the race of the person involved. The white mass murderers get captured alive, after all... :knife:
#15229154
Godstud wrote:The white mass murderers get captured alive, after all...

Maybe because they don't act like a totally retarded person and resist, when it's obvious to anyone resistance is futile.

And even If - hypothetically - a police officer wants to risk his life and take additional personal risks to himself, and put himself in unreasonable harms way to try to avoid having to kill a white person, what is that to you? You think it's "unfair" a police officer gave something to one person he didn't owe them?

That seems like a little child throwing a tantrum and wailing that his brother got a cookie but he didn't.

I'm sure glad police have these body cams these days, because they're capturing all sorts of encounters people would not believe. I'd have difficulty imagining that anyone could act so stupidly if I had not seen it on video.
#15229159
Puffer Fish wrote:
If it was a "murder" then maybe you need to put all the lawmakers in prison for telling the officer to enforce this law and make an arrest.



Funny you should mention that, since that's exactly what's holding it up -- lawmakers don't enforce the law against *cops*, even though cops have more access to, and professional use of, deadly force. Basically there's a lack of *regulation* and *enforcement*, from lawmakers, over this deadly force.
#15229160
ckaihatsu wrote:Funny you should mention that, since that's exactly what's holding it up -- lawmakers don't enforce the law against *cops*, even though cops have more access to, and professional use of, deadly force. Basically there's a lack of *regulation* and *enforcement*, from lawmakers, over this deadly force.

So you claim that if a lone police officer is following a suspect and that suspect grabs the officer's taser gun, the officer does not have the right to shoot him?

Even though if he does not shoot him, that officer will probably soon be lying on the ground wriggling in pain temporarily incapacitated and the suspect could be able to take their gun too?

Do you think police officers should just let the suspect go if they are not cooperating? Would you make it impossible for one officer (or even two officers) to be able to perform an arrest, if it might not be safe for the suspect?

Maybe you'd like to explain how your idea would actually work.
#15229164
Puffer Fish wrote:
So you claim that if a lone police officer is following a suspect and that suspect grabs the officer's taser gun, the officer does not have the right to shoot him?

Even though if he does not shoot him, that officer will probably soon be lying on the ground wriggling in pain temporarily incapacitated and the suspect could be able to take their gun too?

Do you think police officers should just let the suspect go if they are not cooperating? Would you make it impossible for one officer (or even two officers) to be able to perform an arrest, if it might not be safe for the suspect?

Maybe you'd like to explain how your idea would actually work.



I'm going to second GS on this, since it truly *is* a racial issue in the U.S. -- it's a *double standard*, and that's what the whole 2020 Black Lives Matter movement was about, namely how BIPOC people are treated by cops and the system, versus how wealthy whites are treated.
#15229175
Puffer Fish wrote:I'm sure glad police have these body cams these days, because they're capturing all sorts of encounters people would not believe.
You mean when they work, which isn't often when the police are doing something wrong.

It also captures when police shoot a black man in the back 6 times and claim it was self defense. The cop then gets off with a warning.

ACAB

I am not at all surprised that you support the most vile behavior by police(who are supposed to protect and serve), as your morality is at an all-time low. :knife:

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