Gunman kills 19 children in Texas school shooting - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15229492
The Idea t hat 18 year olds are mature enough to have assault guns as inborn right without the need to show any evidence of responsibility and maturity is incredibly silly. That every single 18 year the right to armed to teh teeth as matter of of course without any sort of reasonable checks *IS* going to result in a lot of tings just like this.

Personal responsibility. So called "Conservatives." Why don't they have any?
#15229493
I think the that this is both a gun control and mental health issue. Most people seem to focus on one and get angry if you call out the one they aren't focused on, but these things are multi-factored.

I think we should raise the gun ownership age to 31, no matter the type of gun. Perhaps ban certain types of guns, and extend waiting periods from 10 to 30 days. Also institute training/licensing programs which include psyche exams. We also need to invest in understanding what creates young men/boys that do this shit in our society, and then address it from a mental health standpoint.

I've just made both the pro-gun and anti-gun crowd angry. :hmm:
#15229495
Rancid wrote:
I think the that this is both a gun control and mental health issue. Most people seem to focus on one and get angry if you call out the one they aren't focused on, but these things are multi-factored.

I think we should raise the gun ownership age to 31, no matter the type of gun. Perhaps ban certain types of guns, and extend waiting periods from 10 to 30 days. We also need to invest in understanding what creates young men/boys that do this shit in our society, and then address it from a mental health standpoint.



Occasionally, some idiot will bring up Switzerland.

I've been there, the discipline and repression are incredible. A speeding ticket can land you in jail for months.

Most yahoos wouldn't be allowed to get near a gun...

While Republicans spend all their time neutering laws and regs so they can get away with pretty much everything, the country need to grow the f up. If they can't govern, they need to be moved out so an adult can get the job done.
#15229496
late wrote:
Occasionally, some idiot will bring up Switzerland.

I've been there, the discipline and repression are incredible. A speeding ticket can land you in jail.

Most yahoos wouldn't be allowed to get near a gun...

While Republicans spend all their time neutering laws and regs so they can get away with pretty much everything, the country need to grow the f up.


Everyone is pretty dug in at this point. America is fucked.
#15229499
Rancid wrote:Everyone is pretty dug in at this point. America is fucked.



I do agree with this statement of yours 100%. You got the ones who think the 2nd amendment is a sacred writ from God. And you got people who think having a gun is tantamount to treason and that every redneck in the USA is a potential shooter of innocent children. Common sense is out the window now. It is only about who seizes power of the government and claims they represent the 'people's will' when the only thing those two incompetent parties represent at this point are corporations, the military-industrial complex, banks, and IOUS to the international banking and plutocracy class that controls them.

Does that mean if the USA and its voters don't get extremely active and confrontational about how incredibly undemocratic the system has become? It is going to be gone. No more of any kind of semblance of democratic rule. And the idea that some dictatorship of racist sellouts to profit only having total control over thousands of NUKES capable of wiping out all the world's nations are a few steps from seizing control? Is very very frightening.

Letting school shootings continue and having 18-year-olds shooting black people in TOPS and having 18-year-olds shooting their grandmothers and then shooting innocent children and then committing suicide? That is not a sign of a healthy society. Take it as a sign of serious moral decay. They are not fighting over drugs and are not hardened criminals fighting for territory and drug routes. These are kids who are LOST. And depressed. And if you don't fix what is making them so incredibly selfish and depressed? Society is not going to get better.
#15229500
Rancid wrote:I think the that this is both a gun control and mental health issue. Most people seem to focus on one and get angry if you call out the one they aren't focused on, but these things are multi-factored.

I think we should raise the gun ownership age to 31, no matter the type of gun. Perhaps ban certain types of guns, and extend waiting periods from 10 to 30 days. Also institute training/licensing programs which include psyche exams. We also need to invest in understanding what creates young men/boys that do this shit in our society, and then address it from a mental health standpoint.

I've just made both the pro-gun and anti-gun crowd angry. :hmm:


Under such a system, would the school still be a "gun-free" zone? To the point where no one can possess a gun, even those over 31 and designated to be "first responders"?

"training/licensing programs" - we have them. Not a problem. Doesn't deal with a "angry" person who takes the next step. Willpower and determination vs. gaining knowledge on how to properly keep and use a firearm.
#15229509
BlutoSays wrote:Under such a system, would the school still be a "gun-free" zone? To the point where no one can possess a gun, even those over 31 and designated to be "first responders"?

"training/licensing programs" - we have them. Not a problem. Doesn't deal with a "angry" person who takes the next step. Willpower and determination vs. gaining knowledge on how to properly keep and use a firearm.


What ever your sugguesting is not working, it is in part of the cause these shootings.

You think all 18 year olds by default should be allowed to get as many guns as they like?
#15229515
BlutoSays wrote:Under such a system, would the school still be a "gun-free" zone? To the point where no one can possess a gun, even those over 31 and designated to be "first responders"?

"training/licensing programs" - we have them. Not a problem. Doesn't deal with a "angry" person who takes the next step. Willpower and determination vs. gaining knowledge on how to properly keep and use a firearm.


If you add another dumb rule for teachers to follow? No one is going to become a public school teacher. They get paid a lot less than other professionals and they have more responsibilities than they should have. If they got to carry guns and go to gun training? Just dissolve public education. Let the gun lovers educate their kids at home and let the people who hate guns teach their own kids at home as well. Virtual school and no contact with the wider society. They become isolated computer drones who find their niche in some computer forum and are only friends with people they never sit physically with, eat meals with, or talk to face-to-face. More alienation and stupidity with absent social upbringing, and bad value systems. Grow another crop of alienated, depressed, racist, :roll: or violent kids. See how well that goes?
#15229525
I don't understand something. Can someone just enter an elementary school one has no relation to at all without any limits? :?:

I mean, I don't think I can enter the City Hall (armed or not) past the wing opened to the public without a permit. Why should it be any different for schools?
#15229528
ness31 wrote:Well, they shouldn’t have to be fortresses, they’re places of education :hmm: No, the school setting doesn’t have to change, the sickos do.


I beg to disagree. Schools may not need to be fortresses but I don't see why would someone with no business being there be allowed in.

I highly doubt a private school would allow strangers in.
#15229531
wat0n wrote:I don't understand something. Can someone just enter an elementary school one has no relation to at all without any limits? :?:

I mean, I don't think I can enter the City Hall (armed or not) past the wing opened to the public without a permit. Why should it be any different for schools?


It depends on the school district. Most urban school districts will not allow anyone in. At my kids school (recall, I'm in Texas), all doors/gates are locked. There is a push button to call the office from the front door (there is also a camera so they can see you). Actually, there are cameras on all entrances. They then buzz you in, and you have to sign in with the office. If you volunteer at school events, then you also need to go through a background check.

Texas has like 1000+ school districts all with their own rules. They call them independent school districts. I'm sure the more rural districts are more open door because they expect these issues to only occur in cities.

This is a side comment, but it is a highly wasteful system due to redundant roles across all the districts. For example, Florida only has like 100 school districts because they do it based on counties. The conservatives here like it this way because it makes defunding schools easier. The argument is, more districts gives more control to local communities, but we're also talking about the same group of people that don't want to allow local communities to decide on mask mandates.... "Local control" when it benefits me, and not when it doesn't is the conservative mantra here.
Last edited by Rancid on 25 May 2022 17:09, edited 2 times in total.
#15229532
wat0n wrote:I beg to disagree. Schools may not need to be fortresses but I don't see why would someone with no business being there be allowed in.

I highly doubt a private school would allow strangers in.


Of course they’re not supposed to be there uninvited. Unfortunately, people who wish to cause harm don’t follow the rules of civil society.
#15229535
Rancid wrote:It depends on the school district. Most urban school districts will not allow anyone in. At my kids school (recall, I'm in Texas), all doors/gates are locked. There is a push button to call the office from the front door (there is also a camera so they can see you). Actually, there are cameras on all entrances. They then buzz you in, and you have to sign in with the office. If you volunteer at school events, then you also need to go through a background check.

Texas has like 1000+ school districts all with their own rules. They call them independent school districts. I'm sure the more rural districts are more open door because they expect these issues to only occur in cities.

This is a side comment, but it is a highly wasteful system due to redundant roles across all the districts. For example, Florida only has like 100 school districts because they do it based on counties. The conservatives here like it this way because it makes defunding schools easier. The argument is, more districts gives more control to local communities, but we're also talking about the same group of people that don't want to allow local communities to decide on mask mandates.... "Local control" when it benefits me, and not when it doesn't is the conservative mantra here.


The rules cities use are very sensible. The state could pass a law forcing districts to guarantee this minimum security.

This isn't even about guns, by the way, someone could have gone and kidnapped or stabbed a kid and the problem would remain.

ness31 wrote:Of course they’re not supposed to be there uninvited. Unfortunately, people who wish to cause harm don’t follow the rules of civil society.


Precisely, so why make it easy for them to come in?
#15229536
Guardian mentions that Trump is going to speak at an NRA conference this weekend, and the venue is said to have "strict gun control", which is "what they are against".

I feel that Guardian seems want to incite some able-bodied to shoot the place up. While I support Trump's foreign policy I am also (quite predictably) like to see chaos and destruction, so I kind of wish someone would actually show up and shoot the shit out of those people.

On a side note, I also think that some of those bullets in the event should have been in Antunov's head.
#15229537
wat0n wrote:The state could pass a law forcing districts to guarantee this minimum security.


Texas? won't happen. The Texas legislature, and Texas Education Agency are hell bench on defunding and destroying the public school system here.

wat0n wrote:This isn't even about guns, by the way, someone could have gone and kidnapped or stabbed a kid and the problem would remain.

Guns are a part of this, but it's not the only thing, of course.

Gun access, mental health, security protocols at schools, societal problems that create these kind of people, etc., etc..

I believe it was Sandy Hook at motivated more school districts to lock up the doors.
#15229540
Rancid wrote:Texas? won't happen. The Texas legislature, and Texas Education Agency are hell bench on defunding and destroying the public school system here.


It's up to the Texan voters. Maybe public demands to that effect will eventually change after this, maybe a state law won't even be necessary and parents will demand these type of measures from school districts.

Rancid wrote:Guns are a part of this, but it's not the only thing, of course.

Gun access, mental health, security protocols at schools, societal problems that create these kind of people, etc., etc..

I believe it was Sandy Hook at motivated more school districts to lock up the doors.


Indeed, but at least in this particular case the lack of basic security is astonishing.

There are so many guns going around this country that it seems gun control will become effective in the short or even medium run. It's hard to even enforce current gun control measures, let alone add new ones.

It's hard to understand why some people just decide to shoot up a place (schools or anywhere else, really). These seem to have become far more common since the late 1990s and it's hard to know why. I don't know if mental health or societal problems are all that worse nowadays than in the 1980s for instance, but either way it seems unlikely we'll figure this out anytime soon either.

So limiting strangers access to schools seems like the easiest, cheapest and quickest measure to take - and it would keep children safe from all sorts of threats, not just crazy people or gunners.
#15229541
wat0n wrote:Precisely, so why make it easy for them to come in?


So what fortifications would you like to see implemented that aren’t already in use?
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