I Reject, I Affirm. ''Raising the Black Flag'' in an Age of Devilry. - Page 62 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15229554
noemon wrote:It does not matter why "should it be so". The fact is that it is so. You should seek answers from socialists and marxists rather than from the messenger of this well documented historical fact.

Socialists and marxists hate religion and christianity more particular as a matter of ideological tradition.

Ideological competition clearly does not sit well with marxism.

Christians supporting socialist persecutors who are open about their anti-christian persecution is an oxymoron.


@noemon :

@noemon :

I do not support God fighting Bolsheviks. But it may well be the case that what is anathemized is their Atheism, not the socio economic system that they endorse.

If it were not so, if the system was what was anathemized, I would not trust my own judgement but that of the Church, which is enlightened by the Holy Spirit and cannot err, ultimately.
#15229591
noemon wrote:It's not just Bolsheviks.

All socialists/marxists I know are opposed to religion as a matter of creed.


I know several people in Eurasia/Eastern Europe who are both Socialist and devout Orthodox Christians. I am by no means a very good person, but I do think of myself as being both like they are. If I saw an anti Socialism canon or decree I'd have to reconsider my position.
#15229896
Pretty much. There SHOULD be a natural affinity for socialists to embrace Christianity. Churches in the US SHOULD be quite liberal. But, as neoman has said, they just aren't. And, I might add, the orthodox churches are intervening in our political process openly and unashamedly. The Roman Catholic Church has essentially excommunicated the Speaker of the House of Representatives for her position on women's rights. For that is what abortion is. An issue of women's rights. Giving someone the right to choose is NOT advocating abortion. The decision to have an abortion is an individual one not a political one. Tell that to the mouth-breathing Bishop of San Francisco. Rather than offer his pastors to help with this decision and his resources to make keeping the child easier, he has, in typical fashion for autocrats, insinuated himself into the far right. St. Frances would just love him. Why should I be surprised though in that Orthodox churches do not see women and men as equals before God anyway.

@annatar1914


You can look at the entirely monarchical systems employed by the authoritarian Orthodox religions and say this with a straight face? :eh:
#15229930
Drlee wrote:Pretty much. There SHOULD be a natural affinity for socialists to embrace Christianity. Churches in the US SHOULD be quite liberal. But, as neoman has said, they just aren't. And, I might add, the orthodox churches are intervening in our political process openly and unashamedly. The Roman Catholic Church has essentially excommunicated the Speaker of the House of Representatives for her position on women's rights. For that is what abortion is. An issue of women's rights. Giving someone the right to choose is NOT advocating abortion. The decision to have an abortion is an individual one not a political one. Tell that to the mouth-breathing Bishop of San Francisco. Rather than offer his pastors to help with this decision and his resources to make keeping the child easier, he has, in typical fashion for autocrats, insinuated himself into the far right. St. Frances would just love him. Why should I be surprised though in that Orthodox churches do not see women and men as equals before God anyway.

@annatar1914


You can look at the entirely monarchical systems employed by the authoritarian Orthodox religions and say this with a straight face? :eh:


@Drlee :

You're having a conversation about the Papal sect, which I'm quite familiar with but in a sense their position on things isn't very relevant to me as an Orthodox Christian. I understand the history though, which has caused a number of reactions in the West over the centuries. It leaves a mark.

In a sense although my beliefs are very traditional, on a practical level I there's no reason to think that I will be imposing my beliefs on anyone. My politics, for all my criticisms of Modernity that I know are quite
legitimate, are of a practical if not ideological libertarianism. I think that abortion is wrong, is murder, but beyond persuasion, prayers, and transmission of the Apostolic teachings to others, people are free to do as they will despite what I might think, where their will leads them is where they will go even if disaster overtakes them. I am charitable enough that if one wants to hear what I have to say I will tell them. Again with charity, and prudence.

I see no reason then not to be Socialist as part of my inner consistancy as an Orthodox Christian, as well as Libertarian of the practical sort, and even Monarchism too could fit quite well in a decentralized and locally democratic political environment, even if it is absent today. I do not miss it even though many monarchs have been good and righteous throughout history. Ultimately though, for Orthodox Christianity the Monarch is Christ. He is the Head, the Tsar, the Autocrat.

As for Socialism it was good enough for Father Sergei Bulgakov among others, and yet if it is formally anathemized in the canons of the Church as I said I would submit my wisdom to that of the Holy Spirit in the Church. I am pro life, so I am also all these other things, and vice versa. But also, I think in return I should have the freedom of non association, so that I and like spirited people can live in peace. We have no earthly home, ultimately.
#15230040
To expand briefly on the issue of Capitalism and Socialism, for most of their adherents both are built on a fundamental principle of Modernity, of Bourgeoisie existence and affectations whether made part of an exclusive club or class, or spread to working people and made universal. Both systems when organized as ideological groups are atheistic and materialistic....

Evil cannot be fully banished in this life. As it has an internal source, external power brought to bear on its elimination in one form or another only breeds more evils even greater than before the external interference. Only a community of already like minded souls can hope to resist evil in some measure on a collective and external level, and of these, they are people already devoted to regeneration of the inner person, of the individual sinner.

A society that is healthy and strong morally and spiritually is one informed by Monotheistic principles, noting that while even the best have their share of suffering and strife, they are to be preferred to the Anarcho-Tyranny of today's " culture" which does not value true human existence. On the other hand, modern Western societies are governed by anti principles which invite strife and suffering, and elevate the very foulness which is resulting in societal death and decomposition.
#15230455
@Potemkin , @Verv , and @Political Interest , and friends and readers:

I propose a thought experiment. Recently I watched a video about a Chinese professor from a prestigious Chinese university, who proposes that a great deal of ancient history of Egypt, Mesopotamia, etc...is made up, is fake, created by a Western conspiracy beginning in the 1800's order to undermine the perception of what Chinese subjects had for the achievements of Chinese civilization. My thought experiment is not only to assume for one moment that this is true, for the sake of argument, but to cast doubt on the achievements of Chinese civilization as well.

Consider if you will, the provisional nature of history, of historical memory. If it disappears, it is as if it didn't happen. And if an event is at least partially manufactured, it changes the perception of what happened, is happening, and what will happen.

Years ago, I read a book on early Islam, in which the authors opined that Muhammad never existed and Islam began as a highly syncretic Arab sect. While I disagree greatly with Islam, I feel it highly unlikely that this theory is true. But imagine if it became the consensus of moderns that the theory is true, would that not change a great many things?

Like everything else, we take these matters on faith.

Does the modern edifice collapse if its discovered that the Pyramids of Egypt were made up of concrete blocks and were made in the 1800s? I think not, the Modern age draws much on deeper foundations within the human person, foundations that are routinely exploited.
#15230555
@noemon , @Potemkin , @Verv , and other friends and readers:

Speaking of the dangers of forgetting the historical memory, yesterday was the 1300th anniversary to the day of the battle of Covadonga in 722 AD, when the small band of Christians under Pelagius (Pelayo) beat the Muslim army sent to conquer the resisting Kingdom of Asturias.

Today is the Feast of the man born blind from birth, healed by Jesus. I too have been " born blind", and in this age we need miracles aplenty. Pelagius was the son of a courtier at the court of the Visigoth king of Iberia. Decadent, effeminate, divided by civil strife and wars, the few brave Goths were initially no match for the Moorish hosts, and Pelagius fled with others to Asturias and the caves there, awaiting defeat, down to a band of less than 300 men. And from that, Spain arose from the dead. He didn't listen to the Orthodox Bishop that the Muslims sent him, begging him to surrender and accept Dhimmi status, to pay the Jizya. Pelagius quoted Scripture back at him.

Things could not be much more worse now than in his time, and yet they are in some ways. Now all of what was once Christendom is divided, apostasized, effeminate and weak, worn out by our sins and our wealth. Orthodoxy in the official sense is in very bad shape, now with what is a civil war going on in the Russias and schism and heresy multiplying. Islam benefits everywhere.

This is when miracles happen, so that no man may boast when God does marvelous and terrible things.
#15230687
annatar1914 wrote:@Potemkin :

Friends, I wanted to briefly touch upon a theological reflection dear to my heart, because it causes rage to the demons and sets at naught the worldly standards of what I've been calling the Giants, with their physical and mental excellence, standards of aesthetic quality and beauty. Certainly a Neitzsche or Ludovici or a Evola, etc...would be mortified by what I suggest. Maybe even many Christians.

Celsus in the 2nd century voiced the common belief that Christ was short and ugly in appearance. This is actually believed by some of the early Church Fathers as well, that Christ was a small Man of ignoble appearance, even perhaps a dwarf of less than five feet in height.

I can see Him too as dark and stocky , bronzed from the sun and certainly not Aristocratic in His looks or bearing. St. Paul's " form of a Slave " .


I think my Lord Is of this appearance, the Son of Man. A small even tiny Man, dark and humble in His looks.

I contrast this with the idealized perfection of form, the triad of the " true" and the "good" and the " beautiful " , that the Olympian gods and Titans, the Mighty Men and Heroes of old, signified.

I take great comfort in this God of the widow and the orphan, the weak and lowly and sick and poor, of the common people who do not exemplify anything particularly special in the world. The " failures " and marginal, outcasts, the Other. He is no Giant's god, and yet in His paradoxical Omnipotence, He sets them all to foolish rout: " My God is a Man of war"....

Why are the great and mighty, the rich and wise and gifted folk so put off by them, and Him? That's an interesting further reflection in itself: " why do the Heathen rage, and plot against the Lord and His Christ?"

And " Kiss the Son lest He be angry..." as Judas Iscariot did apparently fulfill in at least mockery. 30 pieces of silver, the price of a lowly slave..


Not sure where I'll go with this, but I recalled this reflection when I was reminded of where I'd seen this kind of physical description of Jesus Christ before:

With the physical description of the figure known in Islamic Eschatological hadiths and other literature and commentary as " Dajjal Al-Mastih", the " Lying Christ" of their thinking. Ruddy skinned and very short but powerfully built, broad of forehead and of chest, long dark hair almost locked like snakes, possibly hunchbacked and with a disabled or damaged eye.

Such a detailed description! Suspiciously so.

I'll return to this later, and including more commentary on the " true, the good, and the beautiful " to go with it.
#15230926
Today is/was the commemoration of the Holy Fathers of the Seven Ecumenical Councils. The Seven Thunders of the Apocalypse.

Almost universally, the Right-Believing during this time were persecuted by the State and from within the Heirarchy of the Church. Some were martyred, imprisoned, exiled, tortured, lied about, all manner of evils. An individual, usually an Emperor, would be persuaded of an error, often for political reasons not theological ones, and impose their errors upon the Christians. The persecution would end, the defenders of the Apostolic teachings would be vindicated, and another heresy would arise with attempts via force and fraud to change beliefs.

I am not such a Statist that I cannot draw some political inferences from those centuries.
#15231199
Feast of the Ascension. He shall return in glory from whence He left, and every eye shall see Him.

That is to say, that we believe that He Resurrected, tarried and visited with and taught His disciples for 40 days. Then, He lifted up from the world physically in that same Body and went up directionally to a real physical Location, where He remains until ready to come back.
#15231684
@Potemkin , @Verv , and @Political Interest :

Not sure where I will go with this long post, but it has been on my mind for some time. It was finally triggered by observing the celebration and media coverage of the Queen of England's Platinum Jubilee...

Thousands of years ago, the first Mercantile sea faring cities, usually Phoenician/Canaanite, had such tremendous advantages that it really cannot be conceived that they ever lost those advantages. Buckminster Fuller posits a later grouping, his " Great Pirates", as the folks running everything, but really they can be traced back far earlier....

On the coast of some land realm, contact is established with the more primitive natives. Depending on circumstances, a port city or at least trading post is established, and the merchants go inland with further colonization and exploitation of human and natural resources. Local chieftains are coopted by marriage with wealthy Mercantile houses, and keep the native population in line while immigrants pour in , to work for those wealthy houses as mercenaries, artisans, specialists of various fields, and regular workers. Later, those chieftains become Kings and Presidents and so forth, a useful screen for the Sea Merchants/Pirates/Canaanites/Phoenician houses to rule behind.

Well, my previous metaphor for trying to explain the modern age as part of a long continuum of historical patterns were " the Giants ". These are the same sort of people, the very same. Land and Sea are the same to these people, although I think it begins with the Sea. From the beginning of history, there were some people with a Cosmopolitan view. And such were their advantages from being the very first, that few up and comers would ever be able to take over and supplant them. So they are everything I've been talking about before: " Faustian civilization ", " the West", " the Giants", Fuller's " Great Pirates" and all that. And so too, in origin the scions of the Levantine city states, Phoenician Canaanite merchant princes.

So the same families more or less run things, occasionally bringing in new blood (but more likely, just slightly poorer and less powerful relatives) otherwise keeping a layer of retainers between them and the rest of us. They have their institutional memory and money and secrets, which help prevent any serious and real rebellion from within.

These Houses form corporations to manage their wealth and extract more wealth, and sometimes entire countries if not all of them are themselves legal corporations in this reality. Wars are fought between Houses for advantages, but over the centuries forms have evolved that keep things from going too far to threaten their overall dominion. The Lands are Plantations.

Some realms are more or less independent of them, but not many, and most rebellion and Revolution is eventually coopted by them and undone. Most people in modern civilization are to some degree to another of a servant, a slave, even if some just serve for the most part by being a consumer of products and services.

This read about right? Am I missing something? I know that this is a terrible simplification of matters, but it appears to me as a necessary simplification as well.

EDIT

Now, don't get me wrong, I cannot assume that these people have run everything, and are completely reactionary. They don't and they aren't, and in fact are the primary backers of the present Modernist worldview for the past 530 years. In fact, and without getting into occult and esoteric teachings,
they held to the ideology and theories behind Modernity from their own origins in early Antiquity. And later, they pushed these ideas openly. They are not Monotheistic, and do not in any way hold to traditional monotheistic worldviews and cosmological beliefs, origin beliefs.
#15232029
annatar1914 wrote:@Potemkin , @Verv , and @Political Interest :

Not sure where I will go with this long post, but it has been on my mind for some time. It was finally triggered by observing the celebration and media coverage of the Queen of England's Platinum Jubilee...

Thousands of years ago, the first Mercantile sea faring cities, usually Phoenician/Canaanite, had such tremendous advantages that it really cannot be conceived that they ever lost those advantages. Buckminster Fuller posits a later grouping, his " Great Pirates", as the folks running everything, but really they can be traced back far earlier....

On the coast of some land realm, contact is established with the more primitive natives. Depending on circumstances, a port city or at least trading post is established, and the merchants go inland with further colonization and exploitation of human and natural resources. Local chieftains are coopted by marriage with wealthy Mercantile houses, and keep the native population in line while immigrants pour in , to work for those wealthy houses as mercenaries, artisans, specialists of various fields, and regular workers. Later, those chieftains become Kings and Presidents and so forth, a useful screen for the Sea Merchants/Pirates/Canaanites/Phoenician houses to rule behind.

Well, my previous metaphor for trying to explain the modern age as part of a long continuum of historical patterns were " the Giants ". These are the same sort of people, the very same. Land and Sea are the same to these people, although I think it begins with the Sea. From the beginning of history, there were some people with a Cosmopolitan view. And such were their advantages from being the very first, that few up and comers would ever be able to take over and supplant them. So they are everything I've been talking about before: " Faustian civilization ", " the West", " the Giants", Fuller's " Great Pirates" and all that. And so too, in origin the scions of the Levantine city states, Phoenician Canaanite merchant princes.

So the same families more or less run things, occasionally bringing in new blood (but more likely, just slightly poorer and less powerful relatives) otherwise keeping a layer of retainers between them and the rest of us. They have their institutional memory and money and secrets, which help prevent any serious and real rebellion from within.

These Houses form corporations to manage their wealth and extract more wealth, and sometimes entire countries if not all of them are themselves legal corporations in this reality. Wars are fought between Houses for advantages, but over the centuries forms have evolved that keep things from going too far to threaten their overall dominion. The Lands are Plantations.

Some realms are more or less independent of them, but not many, and most rebellion and Revolution is eventually coopted by them and undone. Most people in modern civilization are to some degree to another of a servant, a slave, even if some just serve for the most part by being a consumer of products and services.

This read about right? Am I missing something? I know that this is a terrible simplification of matters, but it appears to me as a necessary simplification as well.

EDIT

Now, don't get me wrong, I cannot assume that these people have run everything, and are completely reactionary. They don't and they aren't, and in fact are the primary backers of the present Modernist worldview for the past 530 years. In fact, and without getting into occult and esoteric teachings,
they held to the ideology and theories behind Modernity from their own origins in early Antiquity. And later, they pushed these ideas openly. They are not Monotheistic, and do not in any way hold to traditional monotheistic worldviews and cosmological beliefs, origin beliefs.


What this civilization never regarded highly, was it's own future. Despite all its worldly success and blessings, amazing technological advances, it always sacrificed tomorrow for the sake of today, quite literally. Childless. Sterile.

And so others immigrate and move in, and others have their children, and tomorrow belongs to them. This is why the post Christian era/neo Pagan era of the West is bound to be rather brief. Can it be turned around? Certainly not with circumstances as they are now.
#15232215
annatar1914 wrote:What this civilization never regarded highly, was it's own future. Despite all its worldly success and blessings, amazing technological advances, it always sacrificed tomorrow for the sake of today, quite literally. Childless. Sterile.

And so others immigrate and move in, and others have their children, and tomorrow belongs to them. This is why the post Christian era/neo Pagan era of the West is bound to be rather brief. Can it be turned around? Certainly not with circumstances as they are now.


So, who and what will inherit whatever is left of the West, in a few decades time?

I will give my opinion, but preface it by saying in what that I think i was wrong about. Wrong about the West's concept of the true Other. Yes this is still basically the incongruous elements of the Magian cultural cluster, but Islam is the least incongruous and antithetical.

This is because the most incongruous element, the true Other alien to Western civilization, is Hitler's " International Jew", the "Poisoner of all peoples ", who in Islam is the " Dajjal al Mastih", Who is the Christ of Christianity, the Jewish Messiah. His Person is the Stone rejected by the builders. And today we see the beginnings of a return to war and persecution against the Jew, the Orthodox Christian, the Serb and the Russian. Already the tail is wagging the dog and militant Islam cannot be disregarded as a domestic and foreign policy factor in almost any European or Eurasian country.

Anti semitism is rising. And the musings about Islam and the future of Europe by Napoleon and Hitler among others, are no idle speculations.

So in years to come, history will report that the heresies of the West enabled the spread and conquests of Islam thereafter, Papism and Protestantism in the West just as much or more as Monophysitism and Nestorianism in the East did.

Now, if however Western Civilization survives, it will be because It will have taken the most brutally uncompromising and extreme route possible to avoid its fate, which is a distinct possibility. Thus to the future Western mind, it will have exorcised the spirit of Monotheism from it, and reduced it and its differences to (as one Nazi leader put it) " nothing more than a quarrel among Jewish Rabbis".

If Christianity is thought to stand in the way of Western recovery, if in fact it is regarded as the sickness that the West needs recovering from, then seeing Christianity as the " Jewish poison " is not further behind.
#15232798
So in relation to this perhaps, I was reading the story of the rape of Dinah in the OT, in Genesis. Being raped by a Canaanite prince, her brothers Simeon and Levi trick his people and contrary to the Canaanite plans to forcibly assimilate Israel's children to them, the Canaanites instead are deceived and then killed by Dinah's brothers. Judith centuries later calls this a holy deed. A common society between two peoples can't be built on rape and forced assimilation into an unrighteous society.

The wicked have confirmation bias that only buttresses what they wish to do or are determined not to do, however, even at the risk of self destruction.

A civilization, in my opinion, is founded by the Wicked. Far from being the outliers and marginal people of a civilized society, they in fact are the creative and destructive core, the demon engine of " progress " and " civilization ". Civilization is made so they can live out a measure of existence in a kind of zone without God. Religions are created to help the Wicked find a legalistic path to satiate their desires without running afoul of other people who might have contrary opinions on the matter.
#15232893
annatar1914 wrote:So in relation to this perhaps, I was reading the story of the rape of Dinah in the OT, in Genesis. Being raped by a Canaanite prince, her brothers Simeon and Levi trick his people and contrary to the Canaanite plans to forcibly assimilate Israel's children to them, the Canaanites instead are deceived and then killed by Dinah's brothers. Judith centuries later calls this a holy deed. A common society between two peoples can't be built on rape and forced assimilation into an unrighteous society.

The wicked have confirmation bias that only buttresses what they wish to do or are determined not to do, however, even at the risk of self destruction.

A civilization, in my opinion, is founded by the Wicked. Far from being the outliers and marginal people of a civilized society, they in fact are the creative and destructive core, the demon engine of " progress " and " civilization ". Civilization is made so they can live out a measure of existence in a kind of zone without God. Religions are created to help the Wicked find a legalistic path to satiate their desires without running afoul of other people who might have contrary opinions on the matter.


So, given that the Wicked create civilization, and the demented, the proud, and the abnormal are the creative and motivating spirits (Pagan society believed that spirits and daemons directly inspired artists and musicians) , I can make a more specific prediction about the West:

Within living memory, the West will be openly and full on Satanic/Luciferian, and Nazi/Fascist. Its not for nothing that Oswald Spengler called the Western Civilization " Faustian ", and the Prince of this World always gets his due.

Connected with this will be the deception behind the UFO " Extraterrestrial " phenomenon. History, and particularly the last 530 years , has tended towards that scenario. Giordano Bruno to Eric Van Daniken. Aristotle and Plato to Miguel Serrano and Julius Evola, Friedrich Nietzsche and Ludovici.

That is, we will be given a new mythology of origins which will be partly extraterrestrial for some varieties of humanity, while others will not be regarded as truly human at all, false creations of a Demiurgic figure that will be identified as the God of the Monotheistic religions but regarded as " evil" by the Satanic Luciferian forces.

Contra to all this, and in keeping with the feast of Pentecost and Trinity Sunday tomorrow, I affirm that God in Three Persons Is, and that with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, salvation is possible. Life can lead to better life, to rational existence with the spirit of peace and joy, wisdom and loving kindness, grace and truth.

Such banishes the spirit of hatred and pride.

In the times we live in, such statements might seem to involve a contradiction, which is also of course unfortunately true. The Old Man is renewed day by day, with our propensity to sin, and so we sin, every day. Life is a struggle. Were it not so, I would frankly be more concerned, not less, fearing that God had allowed me to sink in my sins and gave me a spirit of self satisfaction instead of humility.
#15233067
annatar1914 wrote:So, given that the Wicked create civilization, and the demented, the proud, and the abnormal are the creative and motivating spirits (Pagan society believed that spirits and daemons directly inspired artists and musicians) , I can make a more specific prediction about the West:

Within living memory, the West will be openly and full on Satanic/Luciferian, and Nazi/Fascist. Its not for nothing that Oswald Spengler called the Western Civilization " Faustian ", and the Prince of this World always gets his due.

Connected with this will be the deception behind the UFO " Extraterrestrial " phenomenon. History, and particularly the last 530 years , has tended towards that scenario. Giordano Bruno to Eric Van Daniken. Aristotle and Plato to Miguel Serrano and Julius Evola, Friedrich Nietzsche and Ludovici.

That is, we will be given a new mythology of origins which will be partly extraterrestrial for some varieties of humanity, while others will not be regarded as truly human at all, false creations of a Demiurgic figure that will be identified as the God of the Monotheistic religions but regarded as " evil" by the Satanic Luciferian forces.

Contra to all this, and in keeping with the feast of Pentecost and Trinity Sunday tomorrow, I affirm that God in Three Persons Is, and that with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, salvation is possible. Life can lead to better life, to rational existence with the spirit of peace and joy, wisdom and loving kindness, grace and truth.

Such banishes the spirit of hatred and pride.

In the times we live in, such statements might seem to involve a contradiction, which is also of course unfortunately true. The Old Man is renewed day by day, with our propensity to sin, and so we sin, every day. Life is a struggle. Were it not so, I would frankly be more concerned, not less, fearing that God had allowed me to sink in my sins and gave me a spirit of self satisfaction instead of humility.


Pentecost.

What I described as the fate that the West is moving towards, it is nullification, nihilism.

To " deceive if possible the very elect", one needs the truth and also a terribly close imitation of it. 500 years give or take a few decades is a brief time in the life of nations, and it will be seen as such, a brief respite for the West and Europe.

Goes back to Islam, which I will discuss in depth next few posts. Allah, Nur, the Light of Muhammad, the Koran, and Islamic eschatology.
#15233367
annatar1914 wrote:Pentecost.

What I described as the fate that the West is moving towards, it is nullification, nihilism.

To " deceive if possible the very elect", one needs the truth and also a terribly close imitation of it. 500 years give or take a few decades is a brief time in the life of nations, and it will be seen as such, a brief respite for the West and Europe.

Goes back to Islam, which I will discuss in depth next few posts. Allah, Nur, the Light of Muhammad, the Koran, and Islamic eschatology.


Well, to begin perhaps simplistically and in terms we moderns can relate to, is that only in the Magian cultural cluster do we have a narrative structure to reality, that it is in fact a story with meaning.... Problem is, people prefer a " Paul Mua'dib/Atreides " as a savior, than Jesus of Nazareth.

And the reasoning is simple indeed. An entire way of life, and one with reassuring pre modern roots, can be had and had even more simplistically by very political means. At least political means in the sense a Machiavellian would understand, or Lenin and Carl Schmidt. Rules. Legislation. Divinely ordained and apparently certain of success.

Contrasted with He Who tells us that His Way will not be very successful in a worldly sense, and could from that perspective be considered a failure. At least until He returns at any rate. Even the Elect might have a moment of almost being deceived by the success of the worldly.

But if the " problem " is that of worldly success and the overall universal trends, then the path of least resistance is that towards a total simulation or simulacrum in any case. Divinity and Heavenly favor seemingly extended to godlike men who embody an essentially Pagan society and worldview. The Giants are still with us, and they simply aren't going to pretend anymore. All they have to do is kill enough people until they get their point across.

Not for people to accept Atheism, but a kind of Polytheism screening a teaching with an esoteric core, just as with the Mystery cults of ancient times? Or, a chief Pagan deity, exalted to Monotheistic status and identified with the God of the Jews and Christians?
#15233480
annatar1914 wrote:Well, to begin perhaps simplistically and in terms we moderns can relate to, is that only in the Magian cultural cluster do we have a narrative structure to reality, that it is in fact a story with meaning.... Problem is, people prefer a " Paul Mua'dib/Atreides " as a savior, than Jesus of Nazareth.

And the reasoning is simple indeed. An entire way of life, and one with reassuring pre modern roots, can be had and had even more simplistically by very political means. At least political means in the sense a Machiavellian would understand, or Lenin and Carl Schmidt. Rules. Legislation. Divinely ordained and apparently certain of success.

Contrasted with He Who tells us that His Way will not be very successful in a worldly sense, and could from that perspective be considered a failure. At least until He returns at any rate. Even the Elect might have a moment of almost being deceived by the success of the worldly.

But if the " problem " is that of worldly success and the overall universal trends, then the path of least resistance is that towards a total simulation or simulacrum in any case. Divinity and Heavenly favor seemingly extended to godlike men who embody an essentially Pagan society and worldview. The Giants are still with us, and they simply aren't going to pretend anymore. All they have to do is kill enough people until they get their point across.

Not for people to accept Atheism, but a kind of Polytheism screening a teaching with an esoteric core, just as with the Mystery cults of ancient times? Or, a chief Pagan deity, exalted to Monotheistic status and identified with the God of the Jews and Christians?


The answer lies with the insight that Paganism, especially seen in light of the past 500 years in the West and 1500 years in the East, need not be entirely identified with Polytheism.

Paganism, as @Potemkin has so ably pointed out, is a way of looking at the world as a whole. Chance, Necessity, Fate. An iron determinism and equally bedrock personal materialism. It is in fact the way of the natural man, regarded from the perspective of Christian teaching. Most people in the West who identify as Christian in fact are overwhelmingly Pagan. And I venture to say, Jews and Muslims as well are of this sort. All without any formal adherence to a heathen sect.

Islamic success these many centuries has in large measure been from these types of people, but to an even greater degree from the savage peoples from Pagan tribes who went directly into Islam, a continual reservoir of folk who have maintained Islamic natural strength to this day.

But the Western strength has it's own reservoirs to draw upon, not numbers but technology, and a certain collective worldview that encourages breakthroughs and innovations despite the flaws of the Bourgeoisie and of Capitalism.
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