Gunman kills 19 children in Texas school shooting - Page 11 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15229950
wat0n wrote:@Godstud nothing stops random people from walking.
The same applies at most schools in Canada. This isn't a big problem, so they don't lock all the students and faculty in. You perceive a problem where there is none.

wat0n wrote:As for point 3), if the school let my kid out without permission and lost him I'd obviously seek a lawyer. This is definitely not about schools being prisons or not.
Strawman argument. You have no argument so you are fabricating dumb scenarios. :knife:

Come back when you are sensible.
#15229954
The resource officer who "engaged" the shooter before he entered the school? Didn't exist.

Uvalde mass shooter was not confronted by police before he entered the school, Texas official says

The 18-year-old gunman who killed 21 people at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, was not confronted by police before he entered the school, a Texas law enforcement official said Thursday, contradicting earlier comments from authorities and raising further questions about the police response to the massacre.

"He walked in unobstructed initially," Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS) Regional Director Victor Escalon said. "So from the grandmother's house, to the (ditch), to the school, into the school, he was not confronted by anybody."

A DPS representative on Wednesday said a school resource officer had "engaged" with the suspect before he went in the school. ...

There was no school resource officer on site or available at the time, he said. Inside, the suspect walked into a classroom and fired more than 25 times, Escalon said. The majority of the gunfire was in the beginning of the attack, he said.


It took the shooter 12 minutes to get from his ditched truck to the school, and all the while he was shooting at people. 12 minutes. Where were the cops?

Escalon could not immediately explain how the suspect wasn't stopped in the 12 minutes between the crash and campus entry.

Some 12 minutes elapsed between Ramos crashing his pickup truck near the school and entering the building, Escalon said. During that period, the gunman opened fire on witnesses, and a 911 caller reported a man carrying a gun. Police did not arrive until the gunman had entered the school, however, Escalon said. And when he shot at the officers, they retreated to await backup.

A witness who encountered the gunman after he crashed his truck near Robb Elementary said he was one of several people the gunman fired at before entering the school.

“I ran down there thinking someone got hurt and by the time I got down there, the guy is coming out of the passenger side holding a rifle,” Albert Vargas, 62, said.

He added: “His face was blank. There was no expression there. He looked like nothing mattered but the mission he was on. He fired the shots, ran, jumped a fence and headed towards the school.”


Cops were handcuffing, pepper-spraying and tackling parents.

Chilling reports have emerged of parents pushing past law enforcement to rescue their children by any means, their efforts growing increasingly dire as the gunman remained in the school. Law enforcement officials have given conflicting accounts of what was happening during the 40 minutes the gunman was inside – as groups of police remained outside.

According to The Journal, Gomez was put in handcuffs by federal marshals for "intervening in an active crime scene," as she and other parents demanded officers enter the school. Gomez persuaded Uvalde law enforcement officers to release her, and she moved away from the crowd.

Gomez then hopped the school fence, sprinted inside the school to grab her children and made it out of the school with them alive.

Another parent was pepper-sprayed as he attempted to get into the school, and a father was tackled by authorities, Gomez told The Journal.


According to one of the fourth graders, the cops got at least one child shot.

The boy and four others hid under a table that had a tablecloth over it, which may have shielded them from the shooter's view and saved their lives. The boy shared heartbreaking details about what happened in that room.

“When the cops came, the cop said: 'Yell if you need help!' And one of the persons in my class said 'help.' The guy overheard and he came in and shot her," the boy said. "The cop barged into that classroom. The guy shot at the cop. And the cops started shooting.”


Oh, and the husband of one of the murdered teachers has just died from a heart attack

The husband of a teacher killed in the massacre has died of a heart attack.
#15229956
Godstud wrote:The same applies at most schools in Canada. This isn't a big problem, so they don't lock all the students and faculty in. You perceive a problem where there is none.


Yes, I already read this shtick.

Godstud wrote:Strawman argument. You have no argument so you are fabricating dumb scenarios. :knife:

Come back when you are sensible.


Having an entry gate doesn't turn schools into a prison either :roll:

@Saeko so where were the cops? As far as I'm aware, all schools in Texas have at least one (@Rancid is this true?)
#15229962
wat0n wrote:Yes, I already read this shtick.
Facts, you fear-mongering alarmist. Facts.

wat0n wrote:Having an entry gate doesn't turn schools into a prison either :roll:
If it's unnecessary? Why create more obstacles for a threat that doesn't exist. You think a gate is really going to stop a person who wishes to hurt kids? Did this stop the shooter in Texas? :knife: You're delusional.

wat0n wrote:@Saeko so where were the cops? As far as I'm aware, all schools in Texas have at least one (@Rancid is this true?)
The police officer there was not able to stop the shooter. So much for security.

A police officer who works at the school was also in the vicinity although there are conflicting accounts over whether Ramos and the officer exchanged fire. Ramos did fire on two arriving Uvalde police department officers, according to the Associated Press quoting Travis Considine, a state official.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61577777
#15229999
Godstud wrote:Facts, you fear-mongering alarmist. Facts.


OK. It's a fact we insure and take preventive measures for very unlikely (yet still possible) events that would represent a major harm or loss for us. We insure for natural disasters even if they happen once in a century, because our real estate is meant to last for as long as possible. We maintain armies, because we want to deter a possible foreign invasion even if the prospect is extremely unlikely (like in Canada).

A school shooting in a country like Canada or Thailand is clearly one of those very unlikely, yet still possible, events that would represent a major harm for us. A tragedy, even.

Godstud wrote: If it's unnecessary? Why create more obstacles for a threat that doesn't exist. You think a gate is really going to stop a person who wishes to hurt kids? Did this stop the shooter in Texas? :knife: You're delusional.

The police officer there was not able to stop the shooter. So much for security.

A police officer who works at the school was also in the vicinity although there are conflicting accounts over whether Ramos and the officer exchanged fire. Ramos did fire on two arriving Uvalde police department officers, according to the Associated Press quoting Travis Considine, a state official.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61577777


@Rancid already mentioned some prospective gunners have turned back when they realized they couldn't get into the building, even without another person present. It happens, believe it or not.
Last edited by wat0n on 27 May 2022 07:47, edited 1 time in total.
#15230014
Rancid wrote:So Ted Cruz is basically saying we need armed police in all schools. Yet, the police that were there, were bitches and didn't do their duty. :?: How does that help?

Why is this guy such a fucking moron?




He calls America the freest, most prosperous, safest country on Earth and then has the gall to call the other guy a propagandist. :lol:

#15230027
ingliz wrote:Police in Toronto shot and killed a man yesterday after he was spotted carrying a rifle near an elementary school.
You do realize that you can never be more than a short distance from an elementary school if you are in the suburbs, right?
#15230034
omg, are we still picking on places that don’t have fortifications around schools? Why aren’t you guys happy for us? We don’t have the right to bear arms, but we have safe schools. Don’t be haters :lol: We will not be able to defend ourselves from malicious actors, but we do have safe schools. Compromises and choices people.
#15230035
ness31 wrote:omg, are we still picking on places that don’t have fortifications around schools? Why aren’t you guys happy for us? We don’t have the right to bear arms, but we have safe schools.
QFT. It's fucking insane wanting to address problems in the USA by projecting those problems onto other countries that don't have them. It's beyond stupid.

No bulletproof glass in sight
Image
#15230036
wat0n wrote:It seems the school had security but he shot one of them, a cop I think, and got in. Why shouldn't there be extra physical obstacles to prevent this type of situation, and many others, from occurring? :?:

So schools should be fortified? What else should be fortified then? All public places perhaps? If there's an immigration problem, then erect border walls? Sure, let them fortify the whole country. :roll:

Cult of guns and violence is a potent mix that implodes from time to time, and the young are especially vulnerable, so sociocultural change is needed. It's quite interesting, though, that it happened in Texas just days before the NRA convention in Houston, where Trump also speaks.
Last edited by Beren on 27 May 2022 12:55, edited 1 time in total.
#15230037
It's fucking insane wanting to address problems in the USA by projecting those problems onto other countries that don't have them. It's beyond stupid.


You might not agree with me here Godstud, but the other thing I dislike is the schadenfreude displayed in the media towards the US. What gives man? Its not like we don’t have our own problems and senseless crimes which could be characterized as ‘a sign of the times’….let’s not get so high and mighty that we tempt fate.
#15230052
Dozens of police showed up and did not enter the school.
Apparently they staged outside the school for 40 minutes to an hour.
One mother after being detained by police outside the school, actually left the police and entered the school and rescued her two children.
The police cannot help everyone all the time. They are not even obligated to do so.
So the moral of the story here is that good law abiding citizens should have guns.
8)
#15230053
@Scamp It has nothing to do with school shootings.

Scamp wrote:So the moral of the story here is that good law abiding citizens should have guns.
Every mass shooter is a law abiding citizen until they aren't.
#15230054
@Godstud

Godstud wrote:Every mass shooter is a law abiding citizen until they aren't.


Yup. The talk of "law-abiding citizens" is just a smokescreen and an excuse to do nothing to solve the problem. And there is a reason why Republicans don't want to solve the problem. It's because they are the party of white supremacy. The Republican party is the party of wealthy rich whites and they see guns as a way to protect their status and that's the real reason why they oppose gun legislation. If it costs thousands and thousands of innocent lives in the process then so be it because it's all about power and status, even over the dead bodies of innocent people for the Republican party.

At the end of the day, the Republican party could care less about innocent American lives because the only thing they care about is power and status. They don't want gun legislation because they fear gun legislation would prevent them and their wealthy, rich white constituents from using guns to protect their excessive power and status as wealthy rich whites. It's all about white supremacy. The people who commit these mass shootings are nothing but terrorists. Domestic terrorists is exactly what they are because that's their goal: terrorizing innocent people.
Last edited by Politics_Observer on 27 May 2022 14:34, edited 1 time in total.
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